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New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room[W:829]

Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ChrisL said:
They can be there. They just can't be in the delivery room without permission, and that is how it should be. The mother is the one undergoing a "procedure," and is going through a VERY difficult time and possibly the most painful and traumatic experience in her life. If you cared at ALL about her or the unborn child, you would cease and desist on being stubborn about "being there" when the ONLY reason for being there would be to SUPPORT the mother.
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If the mother doesn't want the father there and he wants to be there, she should make her case to an objective, reasonable 3rd party. If there is a real problem, a reasonable, objective person will see that and make the correct call. The thing is this, you have a arrogant prima donnas walking around who take advantage of laws for nothing more than their self aggrandizement.

Again, if women want to claim that they are absolutely independent, and absolutely in control of their bodies, then they should be absolutely responsible for their bodies and the results of pregnancy. Getting pregnant is not a license to take advantage of a man.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
Wrong. Being there to support her is NOT the only reason to be there. You are completely forgetting about the mans reasons for being there and just pretending as if she is the only one that matters.
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No, he is not the one having a procedure, she is the one exposed and vulnerable. If she doesn't want you there, then you stay away out of respect and concern for what is BEST for your child at delivery time at the very least.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

MildSteel said:
If the mother doesn't want the father there and he wants to be there, she should make her case to an objective, reasonable 3rd party. If there is a real problem, a reasonable, objective person will see that and make the correct call. The thing is this, you have a arrogant prima donnas walking around who take advantage of laws for nothing more than their self aggrandizement.

Again, if women want to claim that they are absolutely independent, and absolutely in control of their bodies, then they should be absolutely responsible for their bodies and the results of pregnancy. Getting pregnant is not a license to take advantage of a man.
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There is nothing "arrogant" about not wanting the man in the delivery room with you. It's a very personal and traumatic time. Obviously, some of you men just don't understand, and that's NOT surprising.

Not being in the delivery room is NOT the woman taking advantage of the man. If the man is allowed into the delivery room regardless of the woman's wishes, he is the arrogant and thoughtless one who is taking advantage of the situation.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Gipper said:
It's just a demonstration as to why women will never be equal. The evidence is infinite.
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How so? You are just closing your eyes to what is happening and whining for no good reason.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
Hardly the point I was making. What happens when you raise taxes on the rich? It's not so much that they will hire less like conservatives like to say, because more than likely they will not, but that they will shift how they run their business, and more than likely give people raises less often. As a result wages increases will decrease if not lower.

What happens when you tax energy? Energy is the mover of the economy, so things like taxes on gas causes production and GDP to go down.

Why would it be different for any charges imposed on people? Logically it wouldn't be.
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When taxes on the top brackets were much higher, wages went up with productivity and profits. There is something about giving money to the Govt. that makes employers decide to give it to their employees instead. Wages are a tax deductible expense for employers.
Your point is that if all taxes and child support were voluntary more would be collected. That is ridiculous, I know you would not pay a dime of taxes if you didn't have to to avoid jail. Most of us wouldn't either.
 
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Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ChrisL said:
How so? You are just closing your eyes to what is happening and whining for no good reason.
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I'm not whining. It's not happening to me. I won't let it.

I refuse to subject myself to losing odds.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

iguanaman said:
When taxes on the top brackets were much higher, wages went up with productivity and profits. There is something about giving money to the Govt. that makes employers decide to give it to their employees instead. Wages are tax deductible.
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And the time period you are using here is? I do however find your idea that employers give their money to employees, so that they don't have to pay the government laughably absurd. Where did you get that silliness from?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ChrisL said:
There is nothing "arrogant" about not wanting the man in the delivery room with you. It's a very personal and traumatic time. Obviously, some of you men just don't understand, and that's NOT surprising.

Not being in the delivery room is NOT the woman taking advantage of the man. If the man is allowed into the delivery room regardless of the woman's wishes, he is the arrogant and thoughtless one who is taking advantage of the situation.
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I have been there and watched the whole thing several times. The whole blood and guts. Saw one that was breached, that was a real ordeal. Having said that, there can be a positive feeling that comes from being there. Women should also be understanding and try to honor a man's desire to be their when his child is born. Again, if she doesn't want that and they can't work it out between themselves a responsible 3rd party should arbitrate.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

tacomancer said:
splitting the kids up? i tend to have a visceral reaction to that idea
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nah

they actually have 3 kids but the one was graduating so they just let his situation be the boy only had one more year of school and the the girl 3.

I dont understand your concern though but the most important thing this is also what the kids wanted and now the daughter is actually going to be with him too for her last two years of highschool
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

MildSteel said:
I have been there and watched the whole thing several times. The whole blood and guts. Saw one that was breached, that was a real ordeal. Having said that, there can be a positive feeling that comes from being there. Women should also be understanding and try to honor a man's desire to be their when his child is born. Again, if she doesn't want that and they can't work it out between themselves a responsible 3rd party should arbitrate.
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Don't you think if they had a good relationship, she would want him to be there? if there is some reason she doesn't want him there, I'm sure it's not just to be a "bitch" to him. Would you want someone you didn't like to be there with you? The father can be there right after the birth and hold the baby, or whatever. Just because he isn't there for the actually delivery doesn't mean anything.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

MildSteel said:
I have been there and watched the whole thing several times. The whole blood and guts. Saw one that was breached, that was a real ordeal. Having said that, there can be a positive feeling that comes from being there. Women should also be understanding and try to honor a man's desire to be their when his child is born. Again, if she doesn't want that and they can't work it out between themselves a responsible 3rd party should arbitrate.
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Let me put it a different way. If your SO asked you to NOT be in the room during the delivery because it would make her feel uncomfortable and/or stressed for some reason, would you force your way into that situation against her will anyways, just to make a point?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Notice the exception. Notice how it doesn't apply to the situation at hand.

Do you really think you can win this? :lol:
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LOL Not paying child support IS a crime. Your move.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

AGENT J said:
nah

they actually have 3 kids but the one was graduating so they just let his situation be the boy only had one more year of school and the the girl 3.

I dont understand your concern though but the most important thing this is also what the kids wanted and now the daughter is actually going to be with him too for her last two years of highschool
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Its because my own kids are still very young. If they are teens though, that is a completely different, and in my opinion, acceptable thing
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

iguanaman said:
LOL Not paying child support IS a crime. Your move.
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That is if you don't comply with the demand for your labor and property. Your move.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Gipper said:
I'm not whining. It's not happening to me. I won't let it.

I refuse to subject myself to losing odds.
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Well good for you.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
That is if you don't complying with the demand for your labor and property. Your move.
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Just like not paying taxes right? You libertarians are amusing.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
That is the punishment for not complying with the demand for your labor and property. Your move.
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You have to support children that YOU create. No one forced you to create a child, and therefore you are responsible. NOT servitude at all.

As a matter of fact, to use your own statement against you, NOT making the father pay and making all other taxpayers responsible COULD be considered servitude.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

tacomancer said:
Its because my own kids are still very young. If they are teens though, that is a completely different, and in my opinion, acceptable thing
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sorry my post should have said

AGENT J said:
nah

they actually have 3 kids but the one was graduating so they just let his situation be the boy only had one more year of school and the the girl 3.

I DO understand your concern though but the most important thing this is also what the kids wanted and now the daughter is actually going to be with him too for her last two years of highschool
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my mistake :3oops::lol:
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

tacomancer said:
Its because my own kids are still very young. If they are teens though, that is a completely different, and in my opinion, acceptable thing
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It's different, yes, but it's still not acceptable, imho.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ChrisL said:
Don't you think if they had a good relationship, she would want him to be there? if there is some reason she doesn't want him there, I'm sure it's not just to be a "bitch" to him. Would you want someone you didn't like to be there with you? The father can be there right after the birth and hold the baby, or whatever. Just because he isn't there for the actually delivery doesn't mean anything.
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You can say it's not just to be a bitch, but I don't think you are the type that would have a baby just to get money from a man. Some women are real bitches.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

MildSteel said:
You can say it's not just to be a bitch, but I don't think you are the type that would have a baby just to get money from a man. Some women are real bitches.
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I understand that, and I won't deny that there are some real bitches out there, but there are also some real bastards. :lol:
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ChrisL said:
Let me put it a different way. If your SO asked you to NOT be in the room during the delivery because it would make her feel uncomfortable and/or stressed for some reason, would you force your way into that situation against her will anyways, just to make a point?
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I already said that if it were me, I would honor the woman's request regardless.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

iguanaman said:
Just like not paying taxes right? You libertarians are amusing.
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Yes, just like taxes. See, it's not that hard when you actually think about it, is it?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
It's different, yes, but it's still not acceptable, imho.
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I disagree. At the teen years, assuming the children are typical maturity, then their opinion on who to live with should be respected, barring exceptional circumstances like an abusive or destitute parent
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ChrisL said:
You have to support children that YOU create. No one forced you to create a child, and therefore you are responsible. NOT servitude at all.
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What makes me responsible again? The state. The wheel is round after all.

As a matter of fact, to use your own statement against you, NOT making the father pay and making all other taxpayers responsible COULD be considered servitude.
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That is matter of the state to handle. :shrug:
 
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