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New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room[W:829]

Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

I kind of "shock therapied" myself with it a while back. For the most part it was alright, but there are a few things which I really wish I hadn't watched. :lol:

It is honestly kind of amazing how much difference the environment can seem to make though.

As I said before, a lot of hospital deliveries look absolutely awful.

i.e.

Woman: "AAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHHHH!!!"

Doctor: "You have to push!"

Woman: "AAAAHHHAHAHHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHH!!!"

And that just carries on until the baby comes out.

The alternative stuff is more relaxed a lot of the time.

I've honestly seen a couple of water births where the woman barely even grunts before the baby slides out.
Some women are also built better for birthing. I happen to be very small boned and very slim. I had front labor and back labor at the same time. I can take a huge amount of pain based on other injuries and ailments, but I couldn't take back labor and front labor at the same time. I had to finally allow for an epidural after 20 hours on my first. ...when I was in labor with my second, same thing except I opted for the epidural within about 4 hours.
My point is that it isn't just the place where birthing, there are many different factors to the level of pain, not the least of which is the size of the woman and the size of the baby.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

In many parts of the world the dad is not allowed in by default.

I don't think it's unreasonable to give women in labor this kind of control. It's their body and their vag being stared at by whoever's in there. It's kind of a touchy subject.

They should have control over who gets to see that. Some dads show up with video cameras and everything. I wouldn't want that **** near me.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Does he have to pay child support?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Why is there need to go further? The mother of their unborn child says his presence would be too stressful. I haven't read so much about this, but was the doctor ever asked? Because medically, forcing people who are already in great pain and stress to be further compromised I with added stress is usually not acceptable and can be downright dangerous.

The reason is that the law gives the mother the right to extract financial support from the father. That's why. If the law said that the mother is solely responsible, then I would agree, there would be no reason to go further. But since we don't do that, then the father has some right to be there. If the mother has a problem with that, she should be able to demonstrate that to an objective, reasonable 3rd party.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Some women are also built better for birthing. I happen to be very small boned and very slim. I had front labor and back labor at the same time. I can take a huge amount of pain based on other injuries and ailments, but I couldn't take back labor and front labor at the same time. I had to finally allow for an epidural after 20 hours on my first. ...when I was in labor with my second, same thing except I opted for the epidural within about 4 hours.
My point is that it isn't just the place where birthing, there are many different factors to the level of pain, not the least of which is the size of the woman and the size of the baby.

Of course. Some women face complicating factors during pregnancy and delivery which make the drugs and surgical procedures hospitals are capable of providing a necessity. I never meant to imply otherwise.

I was simply saying that there does appear to be a certain amount of truth to the claim that less stressful birthing environments can make for easier deliveries where women without such complications are concerned. Unfortunately, a lot of hospitals aren't really geared to provide that.

However, as other posters have already mentioned with the growing trend towards specialized "birthing rooms" and other amenities of the like, this does appear to be gradually changing over time.

It also does lend credence to the idea that having persons present for the delivery that the mother does not want could potentially cause unnecessary problems.
 
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Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

I guess if she wants to go through that **** alone, it's her problem. :shrug: I watched all my kids' births.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

I kind of "shock therapied" myself with it a while back. For the most part it was alright, but there are a few things which I really wish I hadn't watched. :lol:

It is honestly kind of amazing how much difference the environment can seem to make though.

As I said before, a lot of hospital deliveries look absolutely awful.

i.e.

Woman: "AAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHHHH!!!"

Doctor: "You have to push!"

Woman: "AAAAHHHAHAHHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHH!!!"

And that just carries on until the baby comes out.

The alternative stuff is more relaxed a lot of the time.

I've honestly seen a couple of water births where the woman barely even grunts before the baby slides out.

Why? :lol:

I've never seen a water birth, but I've heard good things, such as it's much less traumatic for baby too.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

I guess if she wants to go through that **** alone, it's her problem. :shrug: I watched all my kids' births.

Well, I'm thinking they aren't on very good terms at the moment, and she doesn't want him around her when she is going to be in such a vulnerable situation. Do you blame her? Would you want someone you didn't like in there with you, if you were the woman?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

The reason is that the law gives the mother the right to extract financial support from the father. That's why. If the law said that the mother is solely responsible, then I would agree, there would be no reason to go further. But since we don't do that, then the father has some right to be there. If the mother has a problem with that, she should be able to demonstrate that to an objective, reasonable 3rd party.

Sorry, but this is completely irrelevant as to whether or not the father should be present during the birth. He is paying child support for creating a child.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Well, I'm thinking they aren't on very good terms at the moment, and she doesn't want him around her when she is going to be in such a vulnerable situation. Do you blame her? Would you want someone you didn't like in there with you, if you were the woman?

Don't attack me, I don't care.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Sorry, but this is completely irrelevant as to whether or not the father should be present during the birth. He is paying child support for creating a child.

Well I'm sorry to disappoint you madame, but if the mother wants to claim that it's her body, then she should be SOLELY responsible for the consequences of getting pregnant. Then the father would have NO right to be their if the mother did not want him present. But because the mother has the right to take money from the father for the support of the child, then the father has some right to be there.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Well I'm sorry to disappoint you madame, but if the mother wants to claim that it's her body, then she should be SOLELY responsible for the consequences of getting pregnant. Then the father would have NO right to be their if the mother did not want him present. But because the mother has the right to take money from the father for the support of the child, then the father has some right to be there.

Nope, you are wrong and that is why we have laws, so that people cannot skirt their responsibilities. Being in the delivery room or not is irrelevant. There would be times when nobody would be allowed in the delivery room anyway.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Nope, you are wrong and that is why we have laws, so that people cannot skirt their responsibilities. Being in the delivery room or not is irrelevant. There would be times when nobody would be allowed in the delivery room anyway.

That's right, we do have laws so that people cannot skirt their responsibility. However you are wrong if you feel that the father has absolutely no right to be there. The fact that we want him to be responsible means that he has some right to be there. Of course, we should take into consideration the mother's wishes, and that is why I said that if the two of them cannot come to an agreement, then she should convince an objective, reasonable 3rd party that the father should not be there. If she can't do that, then she should respect the father's right to be there.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

That's right, we do have laws so that people cannot skirt their responsibility. However you are wrong if you feel that the father has absolutely no right to be there. The fact that we want him to be responsible means that he has some right to be there. Of course, we should take into consideration the mother's wishes, and that is why I said that if the two of them cannot come to an agreement, then she should convince an objective, reasonable 3rd party that the father should not be there. If she can't do that, then she should respect the father's right to be there.

No, sorry but it doesn't mean that at all.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room


Eh. Figured that (in all likelihood) I'd wind up dealing with it sooner or later.

Doesn't make much sense to be phobic about it. :lol:

I've never seen a water birth, but I've heard good things, such as it's much less traumatic for baby too.

I'm sure they can be rough too, but from what I've seen, there does seem to be some truth to those claims. :)
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Eh. Figured that (in all likelihood) I'd wind up dealing with it sooner or later.

Doesn't make much sense to be phobic about it. :lol:



I'm sure they can be rough too, but from what I've seen, there does seem to be some truth to those claims. :)

Lol. You're funny Gathomas! :)

In this particular scenario though, would you FORCE yourself upon the woman in this way? I would think that if the man REALLY cares about the health of his child, and the mother, he would honor her wishes. He certainly has his rights to see the baby in the nursery and to be in the room right after the birth to hold the baby, etc.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

No, sorry but it doesn't mean that at all.

I disagree. We don't give women the right to take money from fathers and then give them the unilateral ability to determine what the father can and cannot do. The fact is that the birth of a child is a very important time. Because it is a very important time, the mother should not be able to make the unilateral decision that the father cannot be there. If you don't agree, then tell me, why should she be able to make the unilateral decision that that father should not be there?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

I disagree. We don't give women the right to take money from fathers and then give them the unilateral ability to determine what the father can and cannot do. The fact is that the birth of a child is a very important time. Because it is a very important time, the mother should not be able to make the unilateral decision that the father cannot be there. If you don't agree, then tell me, why should she be able to make the unilateral decision that that father should not be there?

The mothers are NOT taking money from the fathers. The fathers are contributing THEIR share of expenses for a child that they helped to create. Being in the delivery room is certainly not a "right" for ANYONE.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

The mothers are NOT taking money from the fathers. The fathers are contributing THEIR share of expenses for a child that they helped to create. Being in the delivery room is certainly not a "right" for ANYONE.

They are taking money from the father when they get child support. The money goes to the mother.

You still have given no reason why the mother should be able to make a unilateral decision that the father cannot be there. You have made a declaration without giving a reason.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

They are taking money from the father when they get child support. The money goes to the mother.

You still have given no reason why the mother should be able to make a unilateral decision that the father cannot be there. You have made a declaration without giving a reason.

I most certainly have. You just refuse to accept it.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

I most certainly have. You just refuse to accept it.

What's the reason. I haven't heard it. Please refresh my memory.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Lol. You're funny Gathomas! :)

In this particular scenario though, would you FORCE yourself upon the woman in this way? I would think that if the man REALLY cares about the health of his child, and the mother, he would honor her wishes. He certainly has his rights to see the baby in the nursery and to be in the room right after the birth to hold the baby, etc.

Absolutely not.

If we otherwise had a good relationship, I'd probably have my feelings hurt a bit, and I might even try to change her mind. However, the choice is ultimately up to the mother.

That should be simple common sense. :shrug:
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Absolutely not.

If we otherwise had a good relationship, I'd probably have my feelings hurt a bit, and I might even try to change her mind. However, the choice is ultimately up to the mother.

That should be simple common sense. :shrug:

I think in most instances when the mother and father have a good relationship, the woman would WANT the man there with her for support. I would just feel sorry for a woman who is forced to have people in the room with her that she really doesn't want around her during this difficult time. It's very, very stressful and very, very painful. Your private parts are exposed for ALL to see.

Let's also not forget that some people might not have a very good bedside manner during times like these. Who knows if the husband/father might be the "panicky" type of person that would just add to the mother's stress?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Proposed by the person I quoted, at the location navigated to by clicking on the blue arrow therein.
You really believe that this little charade will mask the ignorant implication you made?

It's relevant because the person chose to consider the ruling at hand in a wider context.
Lets see:

Wow, I think this is the key sentence for many aspects of paternal rights v maternal rights. One could easily expand that to "any interest any party has before the child's birth is subordinate to the mother's interests."
was the post which you perverted to an abortion issue, by replying with:

You don't seem to grasp that some people consider a fetus to be a person. How can you say to them that the "child's" right to life is subordinate to the mother's right to privacy? That just doesn't work with any intellectual honesty.
Totally irrelevant to the topic at hand.


Do you object to considering wider context regarding the ruling herein? If so, by what neglect of intellectual considerations do you arrive at this narrow-minded objection.
No I do not object at all to the wider consideration, I object to the moronic implication of abortion into the ruling.
 
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