• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room[W:829]

Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ChrisL said:
I understand that, and I won't deny that there are some real bitches out there, but there are also some real bastards. :lol:
Click to expand...

That's right. Some are sweet as sugar, which is why you can't live without them! ;)
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

tacomancer said:
I disagree. At the teen years, assuming the children are typical maturity, then their opinion on who to live with should be respected, barring exceptional circumstances like an abusive or destitute parent
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with that, it's just that I don't like the idea of splitting them up. It's probably not harmful to them, actually, I'm sure it's not, but I don't like it.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
What makes me responsible again? The state. The wheel is round after all.



That is matter of the state to handle. :shrug:
Click to expand...

:doh Are you KIDDING? That is what the state does by ordering child support from the responsible parties, the PARENTS of said child.

WHAT is your suggestion?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ChrisL said:
:doh Are you KIDDING? That is what the state does by ordering child support from the responsible parties, the PARENTS of said child.

WHAT is your suggestion?
Click to expand...

Nope.

Suggestion to what? Nothing.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
Nope.

Suggestion to what? Nothing.
Click to expand...

Suggestion as to WHO is responsible for supporting a child. If not the parents, then who?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
Nope.

Suggestion to what? Nothing.
Click to expand...

And another question. If the father is allowed to just shirk his responsibility if he feels so inclined, is the mother also entitled to do that? Then what kind of situation do you think we have?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ChrisL said:
Suggestion as to WHO is responsible for supporting a child. If not the parents, then who?
Click to expand...

I thought you said the man was a sperm donor and not a father. How can he be a parent and not a father?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ChrisL said:
And another question. If the father is allowed to just shirk his responsibility if he feels so inclined, is the mother also entitled to do that? Then what kind of situation do you think we have?
Click to expand...

The mother is already able to do that. It's called...

Abortion
Giving up the kid at the hospital

Should I go on?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
The mother is already able to do that. It's called...

Abortion
Giving up the kid at the hospital

Should I go on?
Click to expand...

That is not an option for ALL females, as I'm sure you are aware. Again, your arguments are just stupid.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
I thought you said the man was a sperm donor and not a father. How can he be a parent and not a father?
Click to expand...

That certainly doesn't absolve him from responsibility (financial) for supporting the life he helped to create.

These arguments are INCREDIBLY simple minded.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ChrisL said:
Let me put it a different way. If your SO asked you to NOT be in the room during the delivery because it would make her feel uncomfortable and/or stressed for some reason, would you force your way into that situation against her will anyways, just to make a point?
Click to expand...

This is a grossly distorted question which presumes the importance of the mother's request and presumes the triviality of the father's position. If you want to play games like this then why not assign to the mother the trivial request and assign to the father the important position?

What's it to the mother if the father is there or not? Big deal.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ChrisL said:
That is not an option for ALL females, as I'm sure you are aware. Again, your arguments are just stupid.
Click to expand...

Ahh...how?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

So basically, Henrin believes that the man should be able to force his way into the delivery room, regardless of the woman's wishes, and/or completely abandon his responsibility and leave it to others if the man so chooses.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
This is a grossly distorted question which presumes the importance of the mother's request and presumes the triviality of the father's position. If you want to play games like this then why not assign to the mother the trivial request and assign to the father the important position?

What's it to the mother if the father is there or not? Big deal.
Click to expand...

The simple fact (due to NATURE) is that the mother is the one who has to undergo a procedure or multiple procedures which are very traumatic to her. No one has the RIGHT to be there during that time except her doctors and others that SHE so chooses.

Otherwise, I could just use the opposite argument and say that women should be able to FORCE men to be in the delivery room and actually participate in the birthing process. WTH?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ChrisL said:
That certainly doesn't absolve him from responsibility (financial) for supporting the life he helped to create.
Click to expand...

So what he isn't a father and of course not a parent either, but he is still treated like a parent and a father. Yeah, that doesn't make any sense.

These arguments are INCREDIBLY simple minded.
Click to expand...

They are constitutional arguments. I enjoy a nation of laws myself.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
Ahh...how?
Click to expand...

Some women don't believe in abortion and, like it or not, due to nature and it being the woman's body it is HER choice as to whether or not her body is used as an incubator, as much as I personally don't believe in abortion.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ChrisL said:
Some women don't believe in abortion and, like it or not, due to nature and it being the woman's body it is HER choice as to whether or not her body is used as an incubator, as much as I personally don't believe in abortion.
Click to expand...

Ok, but that wouldn't mean it's not a choice. What about the other choice? How is that not open to all women?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

OscarB63 said:
I was in the delivery room for the birth of both my kids. neither time did I see my wife's "privates". I stood at the end of the bed by her head and her lower half was covered by a screen/sheet. The baby came out and the doctor spanked its ass and held it up for us to see.
Click to expand...

So if you weren't there *for her sake* then what would you have done? (I'm not debating with you - but your post triggered the curiosity)

I'm just puzzled over what the 'I'm here to view the baby coming out' person is going to do without being in the way or useless. In truth: it sounds creepy to have someone standing in the corner ONLY to watch all this go on. I imagine the nurses and doctor would be weirded out, too. Nothing more annoying that someone who is doing nothing and knows nothing just standing around and watching you work while someone's life and health hangs in the balance.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
So what he isn't a father and of course not a parent either, but he is still treated like a parent and a father. Yeah, that doesn't make any sense.

They are constitutional arguments. I enjoy a nation of laws myself.
Click to expand...

There is no way that the argument could legitimately be made that a person is not considered a parent if they cannot be present in the delivery room for the birth of their child. Plenty of parents do not get that ability or even that opportunity, especially adopting parents, even when they have the adoption paperwork done prior to the birth.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
Ok, but that wouldn't mean it's not a choice. What about the other choice? How is that not open to all women?
Click to expand...

Some women wouldn't be able to give their children up for adoption. They are PEOPLE, not baby birthing machines.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ChrisL said:
The simple fact (due to NATURE) is that the mother is the one who has to undergo a procedure or multiple procedures which are very traumatic to her. No one has the RIGHT to be there during that time except her doctors and others that SHE so chooses.

Otherwise, I could just use the opposite argument and say that women should be able to FORCE men to be in the delivery room and actually participate in the birthing process. WTH?
Click to expand...

Now you're moving the goalposts because you want to avoid dealing with the scenario that YOU concocted. I'm asking you to flip it. The wife knows how much this means to the husband and her request for him to leave is just a whim, nothing important at all. So, what should the wife do in this case?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
Now you're moving the goalposts because you want to avoid dealing with the scenario that YOU concocted. I'm asking you to flip it. The wife knows how much this means to the husband and her request for him to leave is just a whim, nothing important at all. So, what should the wife do in this case?
Click to expand...

I think she would be a bitch to do that, but it doesn't change the fact that it is still her choice, and if he makes her uncomfortable for some reason, then that sucks, but that's just how it is. If you guys gave birth, then it would be the same way for you.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ChrisL said:
Some women wouldn't be able to give their children up for adoption. They are PEOPLE, not baby birthing machines.
Click to expand...

That still wouldn't mean the choice is not there. It just means that women of good character can't give up their kids.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ChrisL said:
I think she would be a bitch to do that, but it doesn't change the fact that it is still her choice, and if he makes her uncomfortable for some reason, then that sucks, but that's just how it is. If you guys gave birth, then it would be the same way for you.
Click to expand...

Freaking Female Privilege is as unmovable as Mt. Rushmore.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
That still wouldn't mean the choice is not there. It just means that women of good character can't give up their kids.
Click to expand...

yes, but by denying them any kind of support from the OTHER responsible parent, then you are basically forcing them to give up their children, either by abortion or adoption, or to starve, whatever. Either that, or you're willing to put the responsibility onto everyone else.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom