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Is the Republican Party in danger of dying out?

Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

haymarket said:
You are confusing the physical ability to perform an action with a right.
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The very core principle of rights is that everyone has the absolute right to be “free” from aggression in their own person and property. Therefore, any actions towards the person or property of another is a violation of their rights. If all men have a right to their person and property the question is can the government remove these rights by either violating their person or property or by simply failing to protect them. The answer is of course no, because as should be clear by the above statement, it is their existence alone that grants them the authority over their own person and facilities that enables them to acquire property. Any sort of aggression towards the person or property of someone will be an act of aggression, be that by government, which is nothing more than a collection of men, or by any citizen of the world. The action is the same, the results are the same, and thus, it is no more possible for the government to act aggressively towards you and not violate your rights than it is for any other person or body of persons. There is no difference regardless of what people might pretend between the actions of government and the actions of any other man, and it is therefore paramount that the government only act in the defense of peoples rights, much like you can act in defense of your neighbors rights.

So to answer your post, no, there is no one but yourself that is confused here.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

paddymcdougall said:
They determined what rights the citizens of this country have. Wasn't a god saying what to write down. It was a group of men who did the best they could given their backgrounds, their preferences, and the need to get all the states onboard.
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They did no such thing. They determined what limitations on our natural rights would be allowable under our social contract and what limitations on those rights the government would be forbidden from placing.

The founders and the constitution did not CREATE Freedom of Speech. To suggest they did would mean that if this country was disolved and anarchy ruled that a person could not say whatever they wish...which is patentedly untrue.

Rather, the 1st amendment establishes a limit to how much the government can infringe upon said right by stating the Government can create no law prohibiting the free exercise of it.

Whether you want to believe a "Natural" right is one granted by "God" or is simply a symptom of existing within nature is entirely your choice...but rights as you're speaking in this case are not created by man, but are naturally innate to man.

It is through a social contract that we LIMIT our rights in exchange for societal benefits or through which we create societal rights/privledges related to that social contract.

But one does not need a society or a social contract to speak, to believe, to defend themselves, to live....those are innately the ability of man in nature. They are natural rights.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

Erod said:
Lazy, gay, Kardashian-obsessed, entitled pot smokers.

Yep, that pretty much sums up America's youth and the Democratic party.

It's also why outsourcing labor is so damn necessary.
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Wrong again.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

I believe our unemployment infrastructure should be less taxatious through general forms of taxation, than through our current regime of micromanagement via more expensive public sector intervention in private sector markets.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

Henrin said:
The very core principle of rights is that everyone has the absolute right to be “free” from aggression in their own person and property. Therefore, any actions towards the person or property of another is a violation of their rights. If all men have a right to their person and property the question is can the government remove these rights by either violating their person or property or by simply failing to protect them. The answer is of course no, because as should be clear by the above statement, it is their existence alone that grants them the authority over their own person and facilities that enables them to acquire property. Any sort of aggression towards the person or property of someone will be an act of aggression, be that by government, which is nothing more than a collection of men, or by any citizen of the world. The action is the same, the results are the same, and thus, it is no more possible for the government to act aggressively towards you and not violate your rights than it is for any other person or body of persons. There is no difference regardless of what people might pretend between the actions of government and the actions of any other man, and it is therefore paramount that the government only act in the defense of peoples rights, much like you can act in defense of your neighbors rights.

So to answer your post, no, there is no one but yourself that is confused here.
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Not one thing in your post changes the reality that an ability to perform a physical act is one thing while the exercise of a legal right is quite another. And all the therefores and leaps made from them in the world do not change that
 
MildSteel said:
A new Pew Research survey seems to indicate that millenials, the age group from 18 to 33, tend to favor gay rights and marijuana legalization. and tend to vote for Democrats. I think it is highly likely that Democrats have embraced these two issues to drive a stake in the heart of the Republican party. Recall recently how Obama spoke in favor of marijuana legalization and came out in favor of gay rights.

Is the Republican Party in danger of dying out? - The Week
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This seems indicative of the current trend. Millenials feeling themselves entitled to the work of others, raised to think everyone deserves a gold star for effort, that hard work comes second to personal enjoyment, that there are no right answers only personal opinions, that punitive measures consist of the mighty wrath of the "Time Out" -- this being the Democratic Platform, the choice is obvious.

Gay Rights is a misnomer and marijuana legalization isn't the exclusive providence of the Democrats.

Getting high and buggery is what matters most? Is what is driving a stake through the heart of the GOP?

Nah, it's what is driving a stake through the heart of this country.

Voting on the federal lever for exclusive issues, specifically social issues has shown itself to be, is, and will continue to be catastrophic.

This goes for the right side of the aisle too. The religious Right is no better in this regard.

Only until a decentralization takes place allowing States rights to take precedence, to allow people to live the way the want to live, surrounded by people who want to live in the same fashion -- this country will always be divided and will continue its downward spiral.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

Zyphlin said:
They did no such thing. They determined what limitations on our natural rights would be allowable under our social contract and what limitations on those rights the government would be forbidden from placing.
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That makes no sense at all. The very concept of rights is human made and as such rights can and exist only to the extent that humans in some form of social contract agree upon them and thus protect them.

The founders and the constitution did not CREATE Freedom of Speech.
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Sure they did for our nation and decided that it was something worth protecting.

To suggest they did would mean that if this country was disolved and anarchy ruled that a person could not say whatever they wish...which is patentedly untrue.
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By that logic or rather lack of it, one has the right to kill too, because one can just do it like speaking one's mind.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

rocket88 said:
That's what politicians do. In some cases you could call it "representing your constituents." It's actually the very same attitude that caused Romney to have to run much further to the right than his record as Governor. Besides, I thought the big tent was the GOP. That's what Bush I said.

To the point of the OP, the GOP will adapt and be fine. They will figure out a way to go on winning elections which is what really matters to them anyway.
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The Democrat party changed when they disbanded the KKK as being the militant arm of the Democrat party. I think the former KKK booth under the Democrat tent is now occupied by the SEIU.

I would say you will find a larger group under the GOP tent who represents a larger number of Americans than you can find under the Democrat tent today.

The Democrat party of today is made up of mostly special interest groups, each only representing a small percentage of Americans. Not one special interest group representing a significant portion of the population. The way the Democrat party works today, one small special interest group says support my agenda that only represents a few percent of the population and I'll support your special interest group agenda no matter how loony or insane your agenda is.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

haymarket said:
Not one thing in your post changes the reality that an ability to perform a physical act is one thing while the exercise of a legal right is quite another. And all the therefores and leaps made from them in the world do not change that
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Everything in my post exposes the falsehood that if someone restrains your ability to partake in a right, that they have in fact taken your right away. It is an argument claiming unwittingly that coercion and aggression are justified behavior and that the government itself, or in other cases society, grant the people their rights.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

prometeus said:
That makes no sense at all. The very concept of rights is human made and as such rights can and exist only to the extent that humans in some form of social contract agree upon them and thus protect them.
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Can you prove the existence of this social contract? Unlike natural rights that can easily be support by reason, there is no such thing possible with the idea of a social contract.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

Henrin said:
Everything in my post exposes the falsehood that if someone restrains your ability to partake in a right, that they have in fact taken your right away. It is an argument claiming unwittingly that coercion and aggression are justified behavior and that the government itself, or in other cases society, grant the people their rights.
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Your argument only makes sense if you claim rights over and above those which are recognized as a citizen and resident of the USA.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

haymarket said:
Your argument only makes sense if you claim rights over and above those which are recognized as a citizen and resident of the USA.
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And how would it be reasonable to restrain the rights of man to the creation of a state or to those of a certain land?
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

MildSteel said:
1.)If the post is meaningless then why respond? Who said that you said it did?
2.)The point is that you appear to want to brush aside the fact that Republicans have used gay baiting to get votes.
3.)I don't think it's hard to understand.
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1.) still got nothing huh? let us know when you do
2.) nope never even hinted at anything thats the part you made up in your head
3.) i agree it wasnt hard to understand that what you were posting had nothing to do with what i said, im glad you figured that mistake out.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

Henrin said:
Can you prove the existence of this social contract? Unlike natural rights that can easily be support by reason, there is no such thing possible with the idea of a social contract.
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Regardless if you call it a social contract..... or the law ... or the rules of the game ... or just the way things are .... you are an adult and you know darn well what the deal is every day you get up and live here as a US Citizen. And you stay just the same making a free choice every day of your life. You might as well have signed a real parchment contract in blood cause its the same damn thing just the same.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

Henrin said:
And how would it be reasonable to restrain the rights of man to the creation of a state or to those of a certain land?
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What rights of man?
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

paddymcdougall said:
20th amendment? women got the right to vote...
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incorrect, and you even got a like from haymarket, and he professes to know law.

the constitution 19th states you cannot be denied the vote on account of sex.....it does not give a right.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

haymarket said:
Regardless if you call it a social contract..... or the law ... or the rules of the game ... or just the way things are .... you are an adult and you know darn well what the deal is every day you get up and live here as a US Citizen. And you stay just the same making a free choice every day of your life. You might as well have signed a real parchment contract in blood cause its the same damn thing just the same.
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If this social contract existed than evidence of this contract would need to be presented to a court of law in order for them to enforce it legally. There is no evidence such a contract exists, nor a reason to suggest that such a contract is reasonable to assume is established on our birth or creation.
 
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Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

prometeus said:
It is also natural to walk around naked but that too is irrelevant. Nature has not changed yet people did not have all those rights, no matter how natural it felt.
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you have many rights, so many you do not even think of them as being rights.

liberty consist of you being able to anything you can imagine , as long as they do not violate............... the rights of other people or threaten the health and saftey of the public.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

haymarket said:
What rights of man?
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That is a rather unimportant matter to where this conversion is headed. You will need to tell me why it is reasonable to assume the state establishes the rights of man. I believe I have said more than enough to explain myself, but you have yet to explain how it is logical to argue that rights come from an organization of force.
 
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MildSteel said:
A new Pew Research survey seems to indicate that millenials, the age group from 18 to 33, tend to favor gay rights and marijuana legalization. and tend to vote for Democrats. I think it is highly likely that Democrats have embraced these two issues to drive a stake in the heart of the Republican party. Recall recently how Obama spoke in favor of marijuana legalization and came out in favor of gay rights.

Is the Republican Party in danger of dying out? - The Week
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The GOP is not dying. They are too extreme right now, and will eventually moderate. Same thing happened to the Democrats before Clinton. They went extreme left and became irrelevant, until Clinton brought them somewhat back towards the Center. Republicans will also moderate eventually, and we will have a left of center party and a right of center party, with neither of the 2 having extremists running it. At that time, having a Republican president will be a reality once more.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

ernst barkmann said:
since you are asking me this question again, it seems i do not do a good job in explaining your question before.

i will be clearer this time.

first,... i am NOT speaking about rights, from a biblical prospective, and am speaking about rights of the prospective of ...U.S. LAW...........NOT laws of foreign governments.

THE FUNDAMENTAL OR ORGANIC LAWS OF THE U.S.

The Organic Laws of the United States of America can be found in Volume One of the United States Code which contains the General and Permanent Laws of the United States. U.S. Code defines the organic laws of the United States of America to include the Declaration of Independence of July 4, 1776, the Articles of Confederation of November 15, 1777, the Northwest Ordinance of July 13, 1787, and the Constitution of September 17, 1787.

MAKING the Declaration of Independence ----------->LAW.

our Declaration of Independence states rights are endowed meaning they come from a higher power, ...why the higher power?.......to signify rights DO NOT come from man , but from something HIGHER, therefore not in mans power to give OR take away.

from this statement of the Declaration of Independence, that law has NEVER BEEN VIOLATED, .......THE U.S. CONGRESS has never created a right in its entire history.

the u.s. constitution with its bill of rights, does NOT has NOT given or ever granted a rights to it citizens.

our bill of rights RECOGNIZES RIGHTS ONLY, and they are enumerated, our bill of rights with its clauses........are declaratory and restrictive clause places on the federal government, that it shall make no laws, violating the recognized rights which are enumerated [ this can be found in reading the preamble to the bill of rights], .....all other rights which are not enumerated by the constitution, fall under the 9th amendment.

rights like the right to vote are not listed in the bill of rights,.....that right was recognized by the USSC.......the judicial branch of our government, not its legislative branch.

the u.s. was not created has a democracy, the people were NOT given absolute power to do as they will, [majority rule], america was created as a federal republic, with a constitution, making it a republican form of government NOT democratic form, with RULE OF LAW.
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I actually knew most if not all of that. But interesting recap.

My issue is with the "higher power" bit. It may be that we have inherent rights, but why can't they just be an inseparable (although infringeable) part of us? Why does a higher power need to be involved?
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

The Mark said:
I actually knew most if not all of that. But interesting recap.

My issue is with the "higher power" bit. It may be that we have inherent rights, but why can't they just be an inseparable (although infringeable) part of us? Why does a higher power need to be involved?
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when the founders create the DOI, they stated" ENDOWED BY THE CREATOR".

notice they did not say "GOD"..THEY LEFT THE WORDING SUBJECTIVE TO THE READER TO MAKE UP THERE OWN MIND......


LOOK WHAT ELSE THEY SAY.

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

ernst barkmann said:
when the founders create the DOI, they stated" ENDOWED BY THE CREATOR".

notice they did not say "GOD"..THEY LEFT THE WORDING SUBJECTIVE TO THE READER TO MAKE UP THERE OWN MIND......


LOOK WHAT ELSE THEY SAY.

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
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That is what the founders believed.

What I'm wondering is whether a higher power needs to be involved at all - if you found out tomorrow that no higher powers existed or had ever existed, would you decide you no longer had a right to live, be free, and pursue happiness?



Edit: Although, in a way, I suppose "believed by many to be true" could count as a form of "higher power"? I dunno.
 
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