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For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

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For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea

By STEVEN LEE MYERS, DAVID M. HERSZENHORN and RICK GLADSTONEMARCH 7, 2014

MOSCOW — Russia signaled for the first time on Friday that it was prepared to annex Crimea, significantly intensifying its confrontation with the West over the political crisis in Ukraine and threatening to undermine a system of respect for national boundaries that has helped keep the peace in Europe and elsewhere for decades.

Leaders of both houses of Russia’s Parliament said that they would support a vote by Crimeans to break away from Ukraine and become a region of the Russian Federation, ignoring sanctions threats and warnings from the United States and other countries that a vote for secession would violate Ukraine’s constitution and international law.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/08/world/europe/ukraine.html?ref=davidmherszenhorn
 
Nothing is over, in fact its going to get more intense. Obama has already threatened to "isolate" Russia, but this does not appear to be sufficient to stop Russia. This conflict is about get worse.

In the mean time, the flag of the Russian Empire (end of XIX c) hangs on Russian BTR in Crimea.


attachment.php

http://vk.com/video131652174_167728687
 
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It only gets worse if Obama interferes with people interested in self rule.
 
For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea

By STEVEN LEE MYERS, DAVID M. HERSZENHORN and RICK GLADSTONEMARCH 7, 2014

MOSCOW — Russia signaled for the first time on Friday that it was prepared to annex Crimea, significantly intensifying its confrontation with the West over the political crisis in Ukraine and threatening to undermine a system of respect for national boundaries that has helped keep the peace in Europe and elsewhere for decades.

Leaders of both houses of Russia’s Parliament said that they would support a vote by Crimeans to break away from Ukraine and become a region of the Russian Federation, ignoring sanctions threats and warnings from the United States and other countries that a vote for secession would violate Ukraine’s constitution and international law.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/08/world/europe/ukraine.html?ref=davidmherszenhorn

I don't know enough about this to really comment intelligently. But that's never stopped me before. I seem to remember, when John McCain was running against Obama, that many people thought our country and perhaps the world would be exploited because Obama would be perceivedas a weak leader . . . That's IF this is even a bad thing. If Crimeans want to secede and become part of Russia, who are we to get involved??
 
It only gets worse if Obama interferes with people interested in self rule.

Obama has already interfered, but Russia is clearly interested in taking over the Crimea. At a ball game, here are Ukrainians screaming "moscovites to the knifes!".



Also, Russians are cuting signal of Ukrainian Radio and TV stations in Crimea. Russians stations are broadcasting in their frequencies.
 
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Obama has already interfered, but Russia is clearly interested in taking over the Crimea. At a ball game, here are Russians screaming "moscovites to the knifes!".



Also, Russians are cuting signal of Ukrainian Radio and TV stations in Crimea. Russians stations are broadcasting in their frequencies.


What makes you think that the people in the video are Russian?

Fallen.
 
That's IF this is even a bad thing. If Crimeans want to secede and become part of Russia, who are we to get involved??

Beats me.
My impression of McCain leads me to believe he wants the USA involved in EVERYTHING.
I supported McCain in 2000, but he appears awfully trigger-happy nowadays.:shrug:
 
Beats me.
My impression of McCain leads me to believe he wants the USA involved in EVERYTHING.
I supported McCain in 2000, but he appears awfully trigger-happy nowadays.:shrug:

His first instinct when faced with a foreign crisis appears to be to throw bombs and/or troops at it until it goes away.
 
And Russia is blocking the Ukrainian navy, by scuttling ships.
6Dj1jH5.jpg


People walk past the scuttled decommissioned Russian vessel "Ochakov" on the Black Sea shore outside the town of Myrnyi, western Crimea, Ukraine, Thursday, March 6, 2014. In the early hours of Thursday Russian naval personnel scuttled the decommissioned ship, blockading access for five Ukrainian Naval vessels now trapped inside of the Southern Naval Headquarters located in Myrnyi in Western Crimea as Russian war vessels patrolled just of the coast. The vessel was brought by Russian naval forces on the 4th of March towed by a tug boat while escorted by a warship and several gun boats. Marines from the Ukrainian navy heard a loud explosion in the early hours of last night coming from the vessel blocking a channel leading to the Black Sea. (AP Photos/Darko Vojinovic)
 
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His first instinct when faced with a foreign crisis appears to be to throw bombs and/or troops at it until it goes away.

There is something unsettling about old farts wanting to "project" American power.
 
I don't know enough about this to really comment intelligently. But that's never stopped me before. I seem to remember, when John McCain was running against Obama, that many people thought our country and perhaps the world would be exploited because Obama would be perceived as a weak leader . . . That's IF this is even a bad thing. If Crimeans want to secede and become part of Russia, who are we to get involved??

Well it isn't the first time 'many people' are wrong... ;)

Fact is Putin didn't hesitate a second before invaded Georgia in 'defense' of two break away enclaves from Georgian rule. That was when BushII was president. Now you BushII was perceived as many things, I doubt many said weak.

But you are right smack dab in the middle of the X ring when you say why should we get involved. The Crimea wasn't part of Ukraine before 1955, and short of setting Europe on fire there is precious little we can do about it.
 
This is the first indication that Russia wants to illegally annex part of Ukraine?

Perhaps sending troops into a sovereign nation was really the first...
 
Nothing is over, in fact its going to get more intense. Obama has already threatened to "isolate" Russia, but this does not appear to be sufficient to stop Russia. This conflict is about get worse.

I'm not so sure what you mean by intense. I will say this, if Russia wants to take Crimea right now, there's nothing practical that can be done to stop them. In terms of pure power concepts, only the US could stop them militarily, and that would mean nuclear war if we tried to do it, so that's not going to happen.
 
I'll never understand the "who are we to _____" crowd. "We" are a nation with global interests, and when you have interests somewhere, you have a stake in what happens there. Whether the US gets involved or not is one thing, but the "who are we to" argument isn't a good one.
 
Obama has already interfered, but Russia is clearly interested in taking over the Crimea. At a ball game, here are Ukrainians screaming "moscovites to the knifes!".



Also, Russians are cuting signal of Ukrainian Radio and TV stations in Crimea. Russians stations are broadcasting in their frequencies.


I don't see the problem here.
 
Nothing is over, in fact its going to get more intense. Obama has already threatened to "isolate" Russia, but this does not appear to be sufficient to stop Russia. This conflict is about get worse.

In the mean time, the flag of the Russian Empire (end of XIX c) hangs on Russian BTR in Crimea.


attachment.php

òðàññà Êðàñíîäàð-Íîâîðîññèéñê, êîëîííà âîéñê ÐÔ â Êðûì | VK

...and this video was taken on the Krasnodar-Novorosiysk road - which is in Russia.
They might eventually head to Crimea, but it was not taken in Crimea.

Sounds like they aren't happy with Russia, doesn't it?
No, sounds like they are Nazis...as "Moskaliv na nozi, moskaliv na nozi!" is a chant used by the Ukrainian neo-Nazis/neo-Banderovtsy.



Fallen.
 
I'm not so sure what you mean by intense. I will say this, if Russia wants to take Crimea right now, there's nothing practical that can be done to stop them. In terms of pure power concepts, only the US could stop them militarily, and that would mean nuclear war if we tried to do it, so that's not going to happen.

Check out Vice TV, thats what I mean by intense.

 
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I'll never understand the "who are we to _____" crowd. "We" are a nation with global interests, and when you have interests somewhere, you have a stake in what happens there. Whether the US gets involved or not is one thing, but the "who are we to" argument isn't a good one.
So you don't like people who have a brain and think about foreign policy, even after the Iraq war was based on false claims that it had WMD's and caused the deaths of thousands of American troops and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi kids.
 
For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea

By STEVEN LEE MYERS, DAVID M. HERSZENHORN and RICK GLADSTONEMARCH 7, 2014

MOSCOW — Russia signaled for the first time on Friday that it was prepared to annex Crimea, significantly intensifying its confrontation with the West over the political crisis in Ukraine and threatening to undermine a system of respect for national boundaries that has helped keep the peace in Europe and elsewhere for decades.

Leaders of both houses of Russia’s Parliament said that they would support a vote by Crimeans to break away from Ukraine and become a region of the Russian Federation, ignoring sanctions threats and warnings from the United States and other countries that a vote for secession would violate Ukraine’s constitution and international law.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/08/world/europe/ukraine.html?ref=davidmherszenhorn

It is worrying, but here are some considerations that leaves me divided:
1) People have the right to self-determination. If the people of Crimea wants to become part of Russia, then they have a right to do it. It's the business of the US to intervene
2) However, a fair referendum would be highly unlikely if not impossible. Although the results would be undoubtedly for being annexed, the fact that there's Russian troops and Ukrainian paramilitaries (both pro and anti-Russian) makes the atmosphere not fit for a fair referendum. Regardless of whether the result would have been fair or not, the process is what's important.
3) The fact that Russia has moved its military into action into Ukraina makes it a very big issue.
4) The fact that land is being annexed by a country much noted for its human rights abuse and repression along with unsavory geopolitical aspirations makes annexation, even if it's justified, makes it objectionable.

So Russian military action and its political climate that makes annexation so unsavory even if it's justified. A solution would be for Russia to withdraw its forces from Ukraina and have the UN (ineffective it is) or some other unbiased (thinking back, the UN doesn't apply here does it?) international organization oversee and ensure that a fair referendum happens.
 
The United States is presently at an usual confluence of events. We have an incompetent bumbling administration combined with the fact that the American people want the rest of the world to screw off. Americans are tired of endless wars for nothing, tired of seeing our young men die in foreign countries for aholes that don't even want us there, tired of giving away money for nothing. We want to bring our people home, the war is over.

If Obama's incompetent bumbling and lack of knowledge keep us out of this, the American people will rightfully cheer the result.
 
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