Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

solletica · Mar 4, 2014

Fenton said:
You mean Obama's a Liar.

Yes that is old news.

But it's not to you, or else you wouldn't be bringing it up here.

Fenton said:
Aa far as Iran and Israel are concerned I beleive minus Israel's stock pile of nukes and our past support they would have been whiped out long ago.

The problem with being a perennial liar is now people like Putin, and Assad and Rhouani know they dealing with a incompetent amatuer.

putin, assad, and rouhani aren't gullible like the average American Joe; they know that Obama isn't going to be silly enough to intervene in their affairs and so they knew that all his threats were empty political fluff right off the bat.

It was only the conservatives who believed (God knows why) that O might be telling the truth when making those threats, and so that's why there's now up in arms about him not following through on it; in other words, conservatives failed to recognize that water is wet.

Coin · Mar 4, 2014

apdst said:
To call Putin's bluff; with the assurance that American aircraft will provide air support for Ukrainian and Crimean forces.

Do you really believe it would work?
Russians has one of the best air defense system by now.

However, Napoleon and Hitler failed to invade Russia, even tho the differences in army were huge. I doubt anyone today can achieve it. No one can win on those lands against Russians.
Russia does not fight today only with rifle as used to fight the Nazi.

Grant · Mar 4, 2014

Montecresto said:
I don't know if they would or not, but I was agreeing with apdst that if we place sanctions, we should be prepared for them to attack.

Attack whom?

Montecresto · Mar 4, 2014

Coin said:
Do you really believe it would work?
Russians has one of the best air defense system by now.

However, Napoleon and Hitler failed to invade Russia, even tho the differences in army were huge. I doubt anyone today can achieve it. No one can win on those lands against Russians.
Russia does not fight today only with rifle as used to fight the Nazi.

Even if it did work, the cost to us would be HUGE, and we wouldn't even have been defending ourselves, but a disgruntled portion of the Ukrainian people. The whole idea is silly as I think you are aware.

solletica · Mar 4, 2014

JoeTrumps said:
It's always all or nothing with you people. you act like our only options are do nothing or send troops.

So you're saying the US govt. should nuke Russia?

JoeTrumps said:
How about Obama simply tell Putin if he shoots one bullet in the Ukraine HE will impose the strongest sanctions possible on Russia.

He could certainly do that, but Congress will just eliminate them (in secrecy), because of this. . .

Russia operations | ExxonMobil

American 101: Congress' first allegiance is to oil cos.

If those sanctions were enacted, Putin will then just boot Exxon from Russian territory, and then Exxon will bitch to Congress, and Congress will get rid of the sanctions, so that Exxon can get back into Russia. Case closed

Even otherwise, it makes no sense to do anything because invading a territory that actually welcomes the invaders is not exactly a humanitarian crisis

But you see, conservatives don't know this, because their heroes at fauxnews, hannity, limbaugh, etc. all told them that the Russia forced its way into Crimea in opposition to the will of the Crimean people, and since conservatives are completely unaware of the world outside limbaugh, well, . . .

that's why they're going ballistic.

Grant · Mar 4, 2014

solletica said:
It was only the conservatives who believed (God knows why) that O might be telling the truth when making those threats, and so that's why there's now up in arms about him not following through on it; in other words, conservatives failed to recognize that water is wet.

Which Conservatives believe Obama??? They would probably just be criticizing his predictable rhetoric.

Grant · Mar 4, 2014

Coin said:
Do you really believe it would work?
Russians has one of the best air defense system by now.

However, Napoleon and Hitler failed to invade Russia, even tho the differences in army were huge. I doubt anyone today can achieve it. No one can win on those lands against Russians.
Russia does not fight today only with rifle as used to fight the Nazi.

Neither Napoleon or Hitler had ICBMs.

Montecresto · Mar 4, 2014

Grant said:
Attack whom?

In apdst scenario above it would likely be us, could be EU targets if they followed through. Could be they wouldn't attack anybody at all, but it wouldn't be imprudent to consider. Economic warfare too wouldn't be good for the EU.

apdst · Mar 4, 2014

Coin said:
Do you really believe it would work?
Russians has one of the best air defense system by now.

However, Napoleon and Hitler failed to invade Russia, even tho the differences in army were huge. I doubt anyone today can achieve it. No one can win on those lands against Russians.
Russia does not fight today only with rifle as used to fight the Nazi.

Hell if I know. There's one way to find out. One thing's for sure, shooting your mouth off on TV, making hollow threats isn't going to to accomplish anything.

Who said anything about invading Russia? And, before you start trying to inject history into the conversation, at least be able to explain WHY Napoleon's and Hitler's invasions of Russia failed.

apdst · Mar 4, 2014

Montecresto said:
I don't think you can call Putins bluff on this...

Of course you think that Putin is a hero and can't be intimidated.

if our air support did target Russian forces, I don't think you or I would be happy with the result.

What makes you say that? The Russians don't have anything we don't.

Montecresto · Mar 4, 2014

apdst said:
Hell if I know. There's one way to find out. One thing's for sure, shooting your mouth off on TV, making hollow threats isn't going to to accomplish anything.

Who said anything about invading Russia? And, before you start trying to inject history into the conversation, at least be able to explain WHY Napoleon's and Hitler's invasions of Russia failed.

Agreed, he shouldn't be making hollow or solid threats. Putin moving to secure his assets isn't a threat to us or world peace. This whole thing has been hugely blown out of proportion.

solletica · Mar 4, 2014

Grant said:
Which Conservatives believe Obama??? They would probably just be criticizing his predictable rhetoric.

If they never believed him about his threats, then why are they acting shocked that he didn't follow through with them, which is what they're complaining about in this thread?

apdst · Mar 4, 2014

Perotista said:
I know, but history is repeat with people and countries who supposedly couldn't afford a war that still went to war. Supposed according to the news a lot of the troops are now returning to their barracks. That is a good thing.

Those countries lost, too.

Montecresto · Mar 4, 2014

apdst said:
Of course you think that Putin is a hero and can't be intimidated.

What makes you say that? The Russians don't have anything we don't.

Because I think Putin hasn't done anything wrong in the Ukraine, doesn't mean I think he's a hero. Obama hasn't done anything wrong either and he's not my hero. Unless its true that he was in the Ukraine fomenting the coup to begin with as accused.

It's not that I doubt in the end that the US would prevail, it's that it would cost way too much. And for what, to protect the half of Ukrainians interests that are disgruntled at Russia? **** that.

apdst · Mar 4, 2014

solletica said:
If they never believed him about his threats, then why are they acting shocked that he didn't follow through with them, which is what they're complaining about in this thread?

Who is shocked that he didn't carry through with them?

Montecresto · Mar 4, 2014

apdst said:
Those countries lost, too.

And what did it cost??

solletica · Mar 4, 2014

apdst said:
Who is shocked that he didn't carry through with them?

If you weren't shocked, then you wouldn't be complaining about him not following through with his threats because that behavior would be expected.

apdst · Mar 4, 2014

Glen Contrarian said:
There are times, guy, when war is NOT the answer...or didn't you learn anything from Iraq (which turned out just as Bush 41 warned, which warning Bush 43 ignored)? It is stupid, absolutely insane for the two nations with the most nuclear weapons to engage in direct combat with each other...because then it does not matter that our military is better than theirs, because we can't shoot down their nukes.

What's the answer, then? Obama's faux threats, that everyone in the world knows he won't act on, aren't doing a very good job.

apdst · Mar 4, 2014

solletica said:
If you weren't shocked, then you wouldn't be complaining about him not following through with his threats because that behavior would be expected.

I'm not complaining. I'm criticizing.

Montecresto · Mar 4, 2014

apdst said:
What's the answer, then? Obama's faux threats, that everyone in the world knows he won't act on, aren't doing a very good job.

It seems to me everyone agrees Obama should stop making threats, and what then, you ask? Nothing, we should do nothing because its quite legitimate that Putin would enter the area and secure his assets, and he's not killing civilians and destroying infrastructure like the US does when we send our military in to places. You just can't stand that Putin has the moral high ground in this.

solletica · Mar 4, 2014

apdst said:
I'm not complaining. I'm criticizing.

Criticizing a politician for lying is like criticizing water for being wet.

Words are irrelevant. Actions are the only thing that matters.

joG · Mar 4, 2014

apdst said:
What's the answer, then? Obama's faux threats, that everyone in the world knows he won't act on, aren't doing a very good job.

He did get it wrong a little. He wasn't supposed to sqeek with a loud voice and wigle a tiny twig.

apdst · Mar 4, 2014

solletica said:
Criticizing a politician for lying is like criticizing water for being wet.

Words are irrelevant. Actions are the only thing that matters.

I'm not criticizing his for lying. I'm criticizing him for being a weak leader and thereby compromising our national security.

solletica · Mar 4, 2014

apdst said:
I'm not criticizing his for lying. I'm criticizing him for being a weak leader and thereby compromising our national security.

Explain to us what exactly what exactly is weak about not doing anything about Putin's actions in Crimea (i. e. invading a territory that wants him to invade).

And explain how that weakens the territorial security of the US mainland.

apdst · Mar 4, 2014

Montecresto said:
It seems to me everyone agrees Obama should stop making threats, and what then, you ask? Nothing, we should do nothing because its quite legitimate that Putin would enter the area and secure his assets, and he's not killing civilians and destroying infrastructure like the US does when we send our military in to places.

I never said he should stop making threats. I think he should convince the world that he isn't going to chicken out, when it's time to make good on those threats.

You just can't stand that Putin has the moral high ground in this.

By that logic, Hitler had the moral high ground, too.

Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

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