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Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled

Actually it is Americas business because you along with the UK and Russia all signed a treaty saying that your would guarentee and respect Ukraines borders if they gave up their nukes.

I didn't see the guarantee part. Can you link that. And if we did, all the more reason we need to quite that ****.
 
I disagree first of all that Russia has disrespected their sovereignty, a country on ones border which explodes in civil unrest is hardly an illegitimate concern. Both the US and UK travel abroad to respond to countries in similar situation regularly to influence the outcome, and the Putin criticisms are hypocritical.

The treaty doesnt say that Russia can exploit Ukraine in times of political turmoil and no matter what you opinion is on the matter you can not dispute that Russia have ignored the Ukraines Sovereignty. They have invaded the country with their armed forces, it doesnt get more clear cut than that.
 
Treaties are the law of the land, thus, Obama is required by law to honor the terms of the treaty.

Love how the law of the land is important only when you want it to be.
 
Yeah, these are people afraid of loosing face. Afraid the US won't be the toughest one anymore. The fact is that the reason why the US is loosing power is because we abused it, the patronising soul will never concede to that, but that's just the way it works.

Let jerk Obama go together with his Democrats to fight against Putin in the WWIII. It is extremely difficult to believe he will did it.The danger is, that after openly conflict with Putin both USA and other NATO countries cease out to exist.
 
Russia does have vital military interests in the Crimean peninsula. We do not, though I'd hope that our reaction to an overthrow of the British government to be similar.

I doubt most Brits would agree if their gov shot civilians.

Yay, the Americans are here to reimpose the status quo. Nope.
 
Treaties are the law of the land, thus, Obama is required by law to honor the terms of the treaty.

Better to use this treaty as a toilet paper as to ruin the Earth in WWIII, which will be the last war in the human history.
 
The treaty doesnt say that Russia can exploit Ukraine in times of political turmoil and no matter what you opinion is on the matter you can not dispute that Russia have ignored the Ukraines Sovereignty. They have invaded the country with their armed forces, it doesnt get more clear cut than that.

The UK and the US violated the sovereignty of Iraq, just for starters, (not to mention Britain's historical sovereignty violations of about 2/3 rds of the world) again, a country on Russia's border in flames is a legitimate concern for Putin, much more so than the UK and US.
 
I didn't see the guarantee part. Can you link that. And if we did, all the more reason we need to quite that ****.

By signing the treaty we guarenteed it

The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.,

Nato-Ukraine Charter on a Distinctive Partnership, 1997. Although it clearly avoids any reference to any mutual defence assurances, its language builds on the Budapest Memorandum by essentially committing all Nato allies to the same kind of declarative support for Ukraine’s sovereignty. The key paragraph here is number 14:

NATO Allies will continue to support Ukrainian sovereignty and independence, territorial integrity, democratic development, economic prosperity and its status as a non-nuclear weapon state, and the principle of inviolability of frontiers, as key factors of stability and security in Central and Eastern Europe and in the continent as a whole.
 
It has always been known that the Ukraine is the deciding factor over whether Russia is a great dominate power or just another major European power. The size of the population, geographic size, natural resources and industrial base of the Ukraine is massive. It increases the size and power of Russia around 50% and, with it, makes Russia the overwhelming powerhouse of Europe.

It was a terrible mistake to not bring the Ukraine fully into NATO and merged its forces with NATO forces in the Ukraine. This was Clinton's mistake of 1.) disarming the Ukraine of their nuclear deterrence but 2.) not backing it up with anything but a promise - that we have now broken and left the door open for exactly what is happening. If even a modest NATO force/base which included US forces had been put in place of any substance it is unlikely Russian troops would have invaded - and this is a military invasion in full reliance that the treaty we signed with the Ukraine was, essentially, us lying - or at least lying after-the-fact.

Iran has just been given the most compelling reason to keep and escalate their nuclear weapons program. If the Ukraine had nuclear weapons this invasion would not be happened. If Iran trusted any agreement about nuclear weapons they would be fools.
 
I disagree first of all that Russia has disrespected their sovereignty, a country on ones border which explodes in civil unrest is hardly an illegitimate concern. Both the US and UK travel abroad to respond to countries in similar situation regularly to influence the outcome, and the Putin criticisms are hypocritical.

There's no other way to define it. They have blatantly disrespected Ukraines sovereignty, didnt even consult the UN about it and have no evidence that Russian citizens were going to be killed.
 
Better to use this treaty as a toilet paper as to ruin the Earth in WWIII, which will be the last war in the human history.

I doubt most Brits would agree if their gov shot civilians.

Yay, the Americans are here to reimpose the status quo. Nope.

In America we nip it in the bud so early, there is no time for a true resistance to grow.
 
The treaty doesnt say that Russia can exploit Ukraine in times of political turmoil and no matter what you opinion is on the matter you can not dispute that Russia have ignored the Ukraines Sovereignty. They have invaded the country with their armed forces, it doesnt get more clear cut than that.

Are you saying we have military protective treaty with the UKRAINE? Or that we signed a treaty that we wouldn't violate their borders. And again, if intervention in a state in flames is a violation of a countries sovereignty, then we both (US/UK) should be speaking quietly so as not to draw attention to ourselves.
 
Couldn't he just ignore the treaty?

Ukraine has already overthrown this treaty by ousting of its president and replacement of government by a gang of fascists.Do you want we support new Hitler? It is enough, dumb Obama supports in Syria head-cuttings jihadists, and now .... fascists in Ukraine.
We should better ask Ukrainian President Janukovich for advise,although he is a corrupt hog, but at least not a fascist.
 
Russia wants a partition of the Ukraine - and they'll get it. There is nothing stopping this.

The only means we could slow this down is thru backdoor channels only making it known to Russia that if they don't back off somehow surface-to-air SAMS and anti-mechanization rockets will just somehow increasingly be getting into the hands of Eastern Europeans and certain Armenians and other ethic radicals that really, really don't like Russia and Russians. That, of course, is a dangerous 2-way game Russia is gambling we are afraid to play and Putin is not. Just losing a couple truck loads of advanced sniper rifles with armor piercing ammo in certain regions of the Ukraine would slow this down.

Millions of people in the Ukraine and in that region would enjoy nothing more than killing Russians. That is VERY historic. This would also have the effect of limiting how much Russia could advance elsewhere. In short, we cannot militarily confront Russia directly. But we could turn the Ukraine into their next Afghanistan - and much closer to home. Russia does not profit if the Ukraine goes up in flames.
 
The UK and the US violated the sovereignty of Iraq, just for starters, (not to mention Britain's historical sovereignty violations of about 2/3 rds of the world) again, a country on Russia's border in flames is a legitimate concern for Putin, much more so than the UK and US.

By that logic, The United States would be justified in invading Mexico.
 
Are you saying we have military protective treaty with the UKRAINE? Or that we signed a treaty that we wouldn't violate their borders. And again, if intervention in a state in flames is a violation of a countries sovereignty, then we both (US/UK) should be speaking quietly so as not to draw attention to ourselves.

read up on the Nato-Ukraine Charter on a Distinctive Partnership, 1997.
 
Love how you lie about my past comments. Great job!

Not a lie. You supported Iraq, and Libya, pushed for action in Syria, you have no problem in violating the sovereignties of other countries. You just don't like it when you THINK that someone else is doing it. The real truth is your jealous that Putin may be emerging as the new power. But when you abuse power it gets wrested from you. Which if Putin does emerge so, and abuses his power outside his borders, he'll find that out as well.
 
Ukraine has already overthrown this treaty by ousting of its president and replacement of government by a gang of fascists.
Were the scores of innocent killed fascists?
Why does Putin support mass-murderers in this ousted president and assad ?
 
Ukraine has already overthrown this treaty by ousting of its president and replacement of government by a gang of fascists.Do you want we support new Hitler? It is enough, dumb Obama supports in Syria head-cuttings jihadists, and now .... fascists in Ukraine.
We should better ask Ukrainian President Janukovich for advise,although he is a corrupt hog, but at least not a fascist.

We'll have to ask all those Jews why they were out there protesting with the fascists.
 
read up on the Nato-Ukraine Charter on a Distinctive Partnership, 1997.

Gee thanks, a history assignment. You know that doesn't work here. A link to defend your claim that we have a military alliance and treaty to come to the ukraine s aid should they come under attack. Like I said earlier, if we do, this is reason enough not to continue to. But besides all that, Putin hasn't invaded or attacked Iraq in the same sense that Hitler did say Poland. The hypocrisy is frustrating enough, but again, Putin has far greater reason to be concerned of a country in flames on his border and this is as legitimate as any UK/US intervention in the last half century you love to rationalise.
 
Gee thanks, a history assignment. You know that doesn't work here. A link to defend your claim that we have a military alliance and treaty to come to the ukraine s aid should they come under attack. Like I said earlier, if we do, this is reason enough not to continue to. But besides all that, Putin hasn't invaded or attacked Iraq in the same sense that Hitler did say Poland. The hypocrisy is frustrating enough, but again, Putin has far greater reason to be concerned of a country in flames on his border and this is as legitimate as any UK/US intervention in the last half century you love to rationalise.

already posted it but I will post it again for you.

Nato-Ukraine Charter on a Distinctive Partnership, 1997. Although it clearly avoids any reference to any mutual defence assurances, its language builds on the Budapest Memorandum by essentially committing all Nato allies to the same kind of declarative support for Ukraine’s sovereignty. The key paragraph here is number 14:

NATO Allies will continue to support Ukrainian sovereignty and independence, territorial integrity, democratic development, economic prosperity and its status as a non-nuclear weapon state, and the principle of inviolability of frontiers, as key factors of stability and security in Central and Eastern Europe and in the continent as a whole.




Only one way you can interpret that.
 
Love how the law of the land is important only when you want it to be.

Hahaha someone could say the same about you! You whine and whine whenever the US violates international law and new you're making excuses for Russia doing it. Can't you at least try to be consistent?
 
I feel the same way. Hearing them quoted almost makes me cry. I see their pain and bravery, and I know that is how my grandparents spoke and felt. I see my grandparents in them. This is not surprising to me. I lived in Europe when the Orange Revolution started and saw regular coverage of it. America did not seem to cover it all, but I am not surprised it has reached this point. Eastern Europe has been through so much since WWII. I hope so much for the Ukrainian people.

The news out of/about Ukraine have gotten too depressing for me to read.

I am quite tied up in the whole affair. For me, personally, seeing the Ukrainian people win in deposing their corrupt govt was more than just a "hip hip hooray" thing, it touches me on a more personal level as an eastern european. I can heavily, and do heavily relate to every word those protesters spoke when they wanted to end corruption and a govt for them, and a new start. That sentiment is heavily resounding in all former communist countries. heck, even in Poland, which is like, the best former communist country (I'm not counting the eastern germany because that doesn't exist as a separate entity anymore), is still cleansing itself of the filth leftover by communism.

And now it's all going to ****.

So basically russian armed forced will enter Crimea and they'll take it. Maybe they'll enter some of Ukraine's eastern territories. Do a bit of surprise-anschluss because why not.

You can't do anything. Nobody can. You can counter the russian invasion. Not the USA. Not the EU. Nobody. Why? Because it's Russia and you don't want this cold war 2.0 to become a really, really hot war.

So if the russians will want Crimea, they'll take Crimea. if they'll want to take Kharkiv Oblast, Luhasnka Oblast and/or Donestk Oblast... they'll tkae them all. They can take even Zaporishnya which is a very beautiful city and a lot of the East and SE regions which are Russian speaking predominantly...

Russian Parliament approved invasion of Ukraine
UN security council in emergency meeting after Russian parliament approves use of military against Ukraine- live updates | World news | theguardian.com

It's over.

You know, for me, this is quite defeating, spiritually. It reminds me of why the Republic of Moldavia exists and why transnistria exists. If you don't know what those are, google them. It's crushing. Ofc, for me, its' crushing spiritually... for the ukrainians it will be crushing for real.
 
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