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Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

Jack Hays said:
No. The war with Chad was Qaddafi's doing. What he didn't count on was that the Chadians would beat Libyan forces so thoroughly. Ouadi Doum and Faya Largeau were smashing Chadian victories.:peace
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Go back about 20 years earlier instead of cherry picking your time. This was a conflict before Gaddafi took power. Chad and Libya were warring before Gaddafi took power, and I'll bet relevant truth isn't going to be found on the internet.

Were you there?
 
Lord of Planar said:
Go back about 20 years earlier instead of cherry picking your time. This was a conflict before Gaddafi took power. Chad and Libya were warring before Gaddafi took power, and I'll bet relevant truth isn't going to be found on the internet.

Were you there?
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There was no real war until Qadaffi's invasion. And yes, I was in Chad.:peace
 
Libya was already in Chad, because they were helping in the Civil War before Gaddafi was in power.
 
Jack Hays said:
I have no idea what you read. The Chad civil war touched Libya earlier but that was not significant. Real fighting began in 1978.
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Just the same, there were some loose threads that ended up involving Libya. It wasn't as if there was no reason.
 
Jack Hays said:
The only thing that involved Libya was Qadafi's imperial ambition.
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With his WW2 era aircraft and poorly trained army he was poised to take over the world:peace
 
24107 said:
With his WW2 era aircraft and poorly trained army he was poised to take over the world:peace
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He had some first line Soviet aircraft and the Libyan armored columns destroyed by the Chadians included high end Warsaw Pact vehicles.:peace
 
GPS_Flex said:
Obviously you are in propaganda mode. Go ahead, throw everything you can dream up at the wall and only defend those things that look like they might stick. I wouldn’t argue with me either if I were you but I appreciate your compliment and I’m disappointed that you’re taking your toys and going home so soon.

I understand. Truth is hard to defend because it takes serious thought and steadfastness. Propaganda is easy because it isn’t anchored in truth, which takes serious thought, steadfastness and way more work than a propagandist is willing to put in.

When your propaganda tour is finished and you have time for the real world, look me up.
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You lied about my position, why would I continue with you.
 
MadLib said:
You were making a false moral equivalence, comparing non-targets accidentally killed in a legitimate operation to protests being fired upon by armed policemen (some of them using snipers).

By the way, the protests were originally peaceful until the Ukrainian government used riot police to disperse them.
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Lmao, legitimate operation. That's just absolutely disgusting. These operations violate the sovereignty of nations borders, they violate international law, they violate ethics, morals and common sense. The war on terror is a shame and you're buying it. Riot police disperse protesters here too! What ****ing universe do you dwell in. The lengths you go to prop up failed and corrupt US foreign policy is maddening. The only hope is that our influence and military power continues to decline until we can no longer menace the rest of the world.
 
24107 said:
With his WW2 era aircraft and poorly trained army he was poised to take over the world:peace
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Hilarious isn't it. Everybody else gets accused of doing exactly what the US does, perpetually.
 
Montecresto said:
These operations violate the sovereignty of nations borders
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The sovereignty of nations that allow enemies of the US to fester within their own borders? So sue us.

they violate international law
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International law guarantees every member state the right to self-defense :2wave:
Riot police disperse protesters here too!
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Not with snipers.
What ****ing universe do you dwell in. The lengths you go to prop up failed and corrupt US foreign policy is maddening.
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It's really no less maddening than the constant stream of nonsense you spew to attack any and all US foreign policy. While I am perfectly content with criticizing military action when I see it as unjust or useless (Vietnam, Dominican Republic, WWI), I have never seen you defend any war of any kind taken part in by a Western nation, even the obvious case of just war that was WWII. In the meanwhile, you always apologize for and explain away the actions of anti-Western dictatorships and autocracies.
 
Jack Hays said:
The only thing that involved Libya was Qadafi's imperial ambition.
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It looks like you are guilty of the same desire for vengeance that Gaddafi must have had.
 
MadLib said:
The sovereignty of nations that allow enemies of the US to fester within their own borders? So sue us.


International law guarantees every member state the right to self-defense :2wave:

Not with snipers.


It's really no less maddening than the constant stream of nonsense you spew to attack any and all US foreign policy. While I am perfectly content with criticizing military action when I see it as unjust or useless (Vietnam, Dominican Republic, WWI), I have never seen you defend any war of any kind taken part in by a Western nation, even the obvious case of just war that was WWII. In the meanwhile, you always apologize for and explain away the actions of anti-Western dictatorships and autocracies.
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Right, so no use for sovereign borders, unless its another country abusing them.

The drone use is not self defense, particularly when more civilians are killed than alleged enemy combatants.

The snipers were protester provocateurs.

I don't attack any and all US foreign policy. Most of it is conducted quietly behind the scenes by our ambassadors through our state department and is routine business. You know well its the part of our foreign policy that meddles in the internal affairs of sovereign countries, up to and including the overthrow of governments, both overtly and covertly that I protest against.
 
What was the last American foreign policy action you agreed with?
 
OldWorldOrder said:
What was the last American foreign policy action you agreed with?
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My last was Iraq and Afghanistan in '03. I was in the Army during Desert Storm, and agree to going in Iraq for Saddam's chronic defiance of the agreements he made to stop us from ousting him then.
 
Lord of Planar said:
My last was Iraq and Afghanistan in '03. I was in the Army during Desert Storm, and agree to going in Iraq for Saddam's chronic defiance of the agreements he made to stop us from ousting him then.
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That was to Monte, but thank you. I agreed with Iraq, not with Afghanistan. Works out: went to Iraq three times, never went to Afghanistan.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
That was to Monte, but thank you. I agreed with Iraq, not with Afghanistan. Works out: went to Iraq three times, never went to Afghanistan.
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I think once we took the Taliban out of power, we should have left. We have been there too long now.
 
Lord of Planar said:
It looks like you are guilty of the same desire for vengeance that Gaddafi must have had.
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The Chadians never did anything in or to Libya that would call for vengeance. Most Libyans never even knew the Chadian civil war had touched their country. Qaddafi's war in Chad was purely about his imperial ambition. The Chadians did at one time contemplate offensive operations into Libya. After they had destroyed the bulk of Libyan mobile formations in Chad and reduced the Libyans to one garrison in the Aouzou strip, Chadians knew that garrison was the only thing standing between them and a free hand hundreds of miles into the Libyan desert. That would have produced more lopsided Chadian victories because they could operate at high effectiveness for extended periods in the "trackless" (but not to them) desert. Libyans didn't know their way and were always tied to supply lines. Unfortunately the Chadians fell to fighting among themselves and let the Libyans off the hook.

Historical note: The Chadian capital Ndjamena was known as Fort Lamy during the French colonial period. French named it for one Lieutenant Lamy, who was sent into the desert to advise the tribes that they were under French rule. The Chadians returned his skin to the French.:peace
 
OldWorldOrder said:
I agreed with Iraq, not with Afghanistan.
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I'm the reverse. Although I'm highly sympathetic to the invasion of Iraq, I think the focus should have been more on Afghanistan; and in any case, it's clear that the manner in which we invaded Iraq severely damaged our ability to conduct other interventions in the Middle East (even if you agree with the war itself).
 
Lord of Planar said:
I think once we took the Taliban out of power, we should have left. We have been there too long now.
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Our mistake is pretending that Pakistan is anything but our enemy. It's gotten to the point that they know that they can do anything short of directly attacking US troops without receiving an iota of consequences in return. As long as we continue our policy of kissing Islamabad's ass, the Taliban can rely on a steady supply of aid from Pakistan and it is virtually guaranteed that they'll be able to severely destabilize Afghanistan and thus colonize it for Pakistan.
 
MadLib said:
I'm the reverse. Although I'm highly sympathetic to the invasion of Iraq, I think the focus should have been more on Afghanistan; and in any case, it's clear that the manner in which we invaded Iraq severely damaged our ability to conduct other interventions in the Middle East (even if you agree with the war itself).
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Yes, the planning and execution of the Iraq invasion was absolutely pathetic.
 
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