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Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

I am facebook friend with a member of the Red Elvises, who is Russian and posts in English to his American friends but also has conversations in Russian with his homeies. I read this translation this morning. I thought it was interesting, especially the part where it says the West is afraid of us.

Read Mitriča — ответы на незаданные вопроÑ�Ñ‹ - аншлюÑ� "letter to the Patriots.
Want, I'll tell you what is not with Ukraine and with Russia?
First will be a beautiful TV picture.
There will be a column of armored vehicles. And women will throw flowers under the wheels. Will be a gala parade. From the crowd will run out the girl and the child will spend on armor. Each window is a Russian flag. An old woman with tears in her eyes will say smuŝennomu soldier-thank you, son. Will a solemn salute.

Do you think that the free Crimea from fascism? No. So fascism in Russia. Because this is only the beginning. Do you know what will happen next? Will continue to be broadcast on Central television about massacres of Ukrainian passport. About the anarchists. About Bandera. Paid satirists will be coming up with jokes about fat. About Khokhlov subtly joke Vanya Urgant and thick joke in the KVN. Malakhov will transfer about how humiliated Russians in Lviv. The newspapers will print letters simple combiners to fight back and to put in place. Ukrainian guest workers will start to kick out of Russia.

And then there will be a terrorist attack, we know by whom and on whose money. The ruble will collapse. On television to explain that this is the machinations of the West, which is afraid of us. On the streets there Cossack patrols. Will announce an additional appeal. Patriotically girls will spit in your face men of military age-how dare you at such a time to remain in the rear? The troops will begin daily prayers. Any criticism of the authorities would amount to a betrayal. Would begin rounding up dissidents. Will be rewritten history textbook. Show trials begin. Hyperinflation will begin. Of the stores will start to disappear.

I know that I now get to your address. I know that four of the five commentators will work on metodičkam. I did not remove any comments. This is important-to see how Russia comes fascism. " (Translated by Bing)
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Kobie said:
Of course we should be on the side of freedom; however, there has to be at least a discussion of what we're willing to do to secure Ukraine's freedom.
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Ok, so then what are you as a liberal supporter of the current administration willing to stand behind as far as action goes in that regard?
 
MadLib said:
I do not think this should be allowed to happen. Mind you, I oppose military action and I think this should be the EU's domain (as the Ukrainians revolted to integrate with them), but territorial integrity is an international concept that should be enforced. Russia should be guaranteed the stability and security of its naval bases in exchange for the departure of Russian troops, and Crimea should be granted significant autonomy and perhaps the right to integrate economically (but not politically) with Russia.
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I believe we need to try to apply such pressure as we can, but if Crimea's people choose separation in their forthcoming "referendum," it will be a done deal. Crimea will be a Russian "protectorate" and there will be little that can be done about it.

I like the autonomy within Ukraine concept and have also mentioned it elsewhere. My fear is that events are moving ahead so quickly that such an option will become impractical in the not so distant future, especially if the referendum takes place.

To inhibit further acts similar to what took place, I strongly believe that the U.S. and NATO needs to fully integrate its East European members into the alliance and allocate a share of forces to those areas for purposes of establishing deterrence. Deterrence is far preferable to war.
 
j-mac said:
Ok, so then what are you as a liberal supporter of the current administration willing to stand behind as far as action goes in that regard?
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Who on earth said I was a supporter of the current administration? How about you stop trying to tell me what I think and instead address my point.

I am firmly against military action in Ukraine.
 
NIMBY said:
Then you're good with him murdering scores of protestors.
Putin has a way of supporting these bad actors, like with WMD Assad .
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Suppressing riots is not murder.

j-mac said:
Why shouldn't we be on the side of freedom?
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I agree. We need to support the democratic government against the coup.
 
Kobie said:
Who on earth said I was a supporter of the current administration? How about you stop trying to tell me what I think and instead address my point.

I am firmly against military action in Ukraine.
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Oh come on...Now that we are entering the lame duck portion of Obama, you all of the sudden want to distance yourself from him, when in the past, you have done little more than regurgitate MSNBC talking points (and no I won't go on a snip hunt to provide examples), if you don't want to associate anymore with 'the One' then I understand, but don't for a second think that people in here don't know what side of the progressive fence you fall on.

Now, I also am firmly against Military action in the Ukraine, but should this feckless waste of a President be faced with no other choice, it could be a disaster. Just look what is happening all over the world Kobie, we have this problem, we have N. Korea firing missiles today off the coast, we have Syria continuing to kill it's own citizens in droves as they break the promise of handing over their WMD, we have Iran playing Obama for a fool, and the best Obama can come up with is to threaten to leave Israel on its own, as if that wasn't the plan anyway......

We have a President in office now, at a critical time in world geo political history when we need a strong leader on the world stage, we are stuck with a weak, puerile, dolt who relies on moral equivalence, and a deep seeded guilt of America's place in history, who is content to take a back seat to the worlds thugs, and moral reprobates. Between this failure of progressivism, and Hillary ignoring the pleas of our own people in the most dangerous places on earth, that phone in the ad ringing at 3 am is not ringing anymore, because they've pulled it out of the wall.
 
j-mac said:
Ok, so then what are you as a liberal supporter of the current administration willing to stand behind as far as action goes in that regard?
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I don't think this is an issue between the U.S. and Ukraine. It is an issue between the U.S. and Russia. So the question is what should we do about Russian aggression? We shouldn't go to war. That makes no sense. We have to stop trying to be a global police force. We can do some economic things such as kick Russia out of the G8 or G20 or whatever it is and do a trade embargo that keeps Russian goods out of the U.S. It might help. It might not. But sending the bombers would be a very bad idea.
 
sawdust said:
I am facebook friend with a member of the Red Elvises, who is Russian and posts in English to his American friends but also has conversations in Russian with his homeies. I read this translation this morning. I thought it was interesting, especially the part where it says the West is afraid of us.
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Who can know if that's legit? It does support your position though.
 
fmw said:
I don't think this is an issue between the U.S. and Ukraine. It is an issue between the U.S. and Russia. So the question is what should we do about Russian aggression? We shouldn't go to war. That makes no sense. We have to stop trying to be a global police force. We can do some economic things such as kick Russia out of the G8 or G20 or whatever it is and do a trade embargo that keeps Russian goods out of the U.S. It might help. It might not. But sending the bombers would be a very bad idea.
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I think you are right about that, but even further, I think Obama needs to take a hard look at what he is doing now that sends the signals that America is weak, and getting weaker....Reverse the attacks on down grading the Military, and shift this America in the backseat mentality of foreign policy...leaders like Putin, that have been waiting for just this sort of window to act, are seeing clearly that we are floundering in a sea of weakness and are ceasing the moment.
 
NIMBY said:
You go with that hot mic, I'll go with No Drama Obama.

I'll go with the current hot air from a dozen GOPs undercutting the President in a new crisis, just as with Syria.

Too bad you didn't get Romney, this could have been his 3rd war, right after Iran and Syria.
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Syria... where Obama's Red Line Weaklingness has proven to be an invitation for Putin to smack Obama around again?

Weakness invites aggression. Obama has made the world a dangerous place with his lame telepromteuring.
 
j-mac said:
I don't think that under the current leadership of this country (or lack of) will bring any response that would significantly alter Russia's path in the Ukraine. And I agree that I don't want US troops used in that region. However, we can see that as the US weakens our stance on the world stage, more nefarious players like Russia are emboldened. Note; Russian war ship docked in Cuba, and Iran's naval force (such that it is) steaming a destroyer toward US waters. In times past there would have been serious thought as to provoking us like that. Now, not so much....And I don't agree that this is a good thing.
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See, the problem is, everybody but the US is nefarious.
 
jmotivator said:
Rationalizing the differences is how we let WWII happen.
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I see, so you are predicting Obama's inaction (whatever that means) is going to trigger WW111.
 
Breaking News Russia's Black Sea Fleet has given Ukrainian forces in Crimea until 5:00 local time (03:00 GMT) on Tuesday to surrender or face an all-out assault, according to Ukrainian defence ministry sources quoted by Interfax-Ukraine news agency. "If by 5am tomorrow morning they do not surrender a real assault will begin on units and sections of the Ukrainian armed forces all over Crimea," defence ministry officials are quoted as saying. So far there is no further confirmation of the ultimatum from other sources.
 
donsutherland1 said:
I believe we need to try to apply such pressure as we can, but if Crimea's people choose separation in their forthcoming "referendum," it will be a done deal. Crimea will be a Russian "protectorate" and there will be little that can be done about it.

I like the autonomy within Ukraine concept and have also mentioned it elsewhere. My fear is that events are moving ahead so quickly that such an option will become impractical in the not so distant future, especially if the referendum takes place.

To inhibit further acts similar to what took place, I strongly believe that the U.S. and NATO needs to fully integrate its East European members into the alliance and allocate a share of forces to those areas for purposes of establishing deterrence. Deterrence is far preferable to war.
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Khrushchev 'gave' the Crimea to the Ukraine in the 1950's. The Russians may just take it back and everyone will eventually settle on that. If Russia goes further into the Ukraine then some strong western leadership will have to emerge.
 
jmotivator said:
Nobody is advocating war. But taking force off the table removes any and all leverage you have. If you rule out military action Putin just laughs in your face and does what he wants until someone actually provides military resistance.
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Oh, I see. Because Obama "said" force is off the table, that means force is off the table, right? Anyway, force cannot be on the table with Russia, A, your not pushing Russia over like you did Iraq and Libya, the US would have huge skin in the game just to try and prevent a country who's citizens are split 50/50 from going Russian, and secondly, if Obama put force on the table, and then didn't use it, you'd bitch at him for that. Again, exactly what is it that you think Obama should be doing?
 
Grant said:
Which is fine, but don't then pretend to speak for international situations.
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Everybody here is speaking for international situations, think your special? Point being, it will be Russia that decides whether or not any forthcoming sanctions constitute an act of war, not you!
 
Man of Context said:
I don't see Crimean independence as being something even the Crimeans want. This whole episode is predicated on Russian culture's preoccupation with pretending to be a major world power again, and the desire of ethnic Russians in Ukraine to remain part of the Russian orbit.



It wasn't a conquest because we made no plans to formally (or even informally) incorporate the territory into our system of government.
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False. Do you think we were establishing an oligarchy, fascism, communism.
 
Kobie said:
Of course we should be on the side of freedom; however, there has to be at least a discussion of what we're willing to do to secure Ukraine's freedom.
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There will be a great deal of discussion, much posturing, and then nothing.
 
iguanaman said:
The Ukraine is a part of Europe and Putin himself signed a pact guaranteeing their sovereignty. This cannot be allowed to stand either.
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What can't be allowed to stand? Putin securing a country on his border that's inflamed.
 
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