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Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

And what would mobilization accomplish, besides upsetting the majority of the Nation who were against bombing Syria?

It would show Russian high command that this isn't a war they can win.

Amusing to watch all the Libertarians who are isolationists wanting a show of force for Ukraine .

I'm certainly no isolationist.
 
The GOP complains when Obama is or isn't their waterboy.
I prefer this NO Drama Obama, without taking credit in public.
We saw how the right went ape-**** when he spoke of bin Laden .

Do you have any evidence for these claims? Don't confuse your opinion with the truth, or facts.
 
I never said what I am to you. I guess it's been stated enough times in threads you haven't visited though. I really don't see what relevance it is at any rate.

It's a matter of integrity. Many foreigners pretend to be Americans on message boards, I've run into it before, and you seem to be one of them. And no, I haven't visited those threads where you were honest in this regard.
 
So GOPs calling for a new Cold war is not War.
What comes after a Cold War CalGun?
Top Republicans Call for Return to Cold War - The Daily Beast
GOPs have one set of talking points, Cold War and Hot War.
Since righties are so quick to fling the LIE word around, eat this crow .

You claim that two Republicans are calling for war and now you've enlarged that to include the entire Republican Party. You are not making sense.
 
GOP senators seek trade actions against Russia - Eric Bradner - POLITICO.com
At the beginning of this article, Rubio specifically calls for an end to all talks on anything except the Ukraine.
Sever trade talks with Russia.
Kick Russia out of international organizations.
Suspend Russia from the World Trade Organization.
Suspend Russia from the United Nations Security council.

Most objective posters on dp would say this is a good way to start a war.
Aren't you glad Rubio and Cruz put their own personal ambitions above those of their Nation?

Do you really believe Russia would start a war with the United States??

Even with Obama in charge they would never do that. Putin is making his moves only because Obama is weak and ineffective.
 
Sending supplies would do absolutely nothing. I don't think Ukrainian soldiers will even try to stand up to Russian forces, whatever armaments we give them.

Mobilizing American naval and air forces is the only meaningful thing we can do to show Russia that we mean business, and to show the Ukrainian military that they aren't alone if war breaks out. This, I think, would stiffen Ukrainian resolve and weaken Russian resolve, enough that Russia withdraws.

Will that happen? Almost certainly not. Russia will come out on top in this, I think.

So much for winning the Cold War.

If every free nation, without the support of the US, sent missions to the Ukraine offering financial and moral assistance then I believe it would make a difference. The free world has depended on the US for too long and should regroup to fill the void created by Obama, or someone else will.

The US failed to win in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan and now even the Cold War has resumed, though on a much smaller scale so far.. When Putin called the collapse of the Soviet Union "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the (20th) century" we should certainly know where he is coming from.
 
MAD has kept the peace in Europe for half a century. Call this a crazy idea but if you want real world peace then every country, no matter how small, should be armed with hundreds of nukes, that way nobody would be dumb enough to start a war with one another.

That would depend on their ideology.
 
If every free nation, without the support of the US, sent missions to the Ukraine offering financial and moral assistance then I believe it would make a difference.

"Making a difference" covers a lot of ground. It may give the Ukrainians confidence in their moral position, but "financial and moral assistance" don't stop the largest tank army in the world.
 
"Making a difference" covers a lot of ground. It may give the Ukrainians confidence in their moral position, but "financial and moral assistance" don't stop the largest tank army in the world.

You may be right but it also seems that Putin wants the respect of the rest of the world, as we have seen from his promotion of the Olympic games held there. Of course he dismisses Obama but would he risk the moral wrath of all the other democracies? I'm not so sure. In any case it would be a good effort for the free world, apart from the US, to commit to.

Canada threatens sanctions if Russia disrupts peace in Ukraine as U.S. warns sending troops would be ‘grave mistake’ | National Post
 
I agree with you, EU should take the lead and I feel the US should stay out of it since personally I am politically an advocate for non-interventionism but however we did sign that treaty with them so you know... :doh

Hmm, Bill Clinton signed the treaty so we should send him with a couple boxes of cigars.
 
Do you really believe Russia would start a war with the United States??

Even with Obama in charge they would never do that. Putin is making his moves only because Obama is weak and ineffective.

Since there's more than one Ukraine thread, I'm not sure if this is the one I added a comment to several days ago or not. My point was that the leaked conversation...which has gone almost completely unreported in MSM between Victoria Nuland and the U.S. ambassador to the Ukraine, gave us some candid insight into the scheming and plotting against the Yanukovitch Government at the time. Like it or not, he was the elected president of the Ukraine, who was removed by mob action...sort of like Morsi in Egypt. From my own limited awareness of the goings on in the Ukraine, Russia is the country with a vested interest in what goes on there...not the U.S.! Russia has that large naval base in Crimea...an autonomous territory that is mostly Russian and was added to the Ukraine by the Soviet Government in the 1950's.

If we can make a quick comparison: look at how the U.S. is propping up a ruthless potentate in the U.S. client state of Bahrain....a despot who even sent military forces into hospitals to shoot doctors and patients...without getting his name added to the list of bad actors in the ME and subject for regime change. Why? Because he gets the oil out of the ground and to western markets, and he hosts the largest U.S. naval base in the ME. What would the U.S. be willing to do to maintain the continued operation of that base? I would guess, just about anything...legal, illegal...at any cost. And yet, we're supposed to take idiot U.S. warhawks and chicken hawks seriously, as they keep rattling the cage of the beast who still has about 8000 nuclear warheads! The Neocon warhawks, who are so addicted to money from military procurements, would risk nuclear annihilation, to make a few more bucks selling their war toys and finding new wars to justify their existence and continued production!
 
You may be right but it also seems that Putin wants the respect of the rest of the world, as we have seen from his promotion of the Olympic games held there. Of course he dismisses Obama but would he risk the moral wrath of all the other democracies? I'm not so sure. In any case it would be a good effort for the free world, apart from the US, to commit to.

Canada threatens sanctions if Russia disrupts peace in Ukraine as U.S. warns sending troops would be ‘grave mistake’ | National Post

Seems like a long time ago now...but Canada used to have an independent government! Now, we have a Conservative toady who asks the President how high to jump!
 
Since there's more than one Ukraine thread, I'm not sure if this is the one I added a comment to several days ago or not. My point was that the leaked conversation...which has gone almost completely unreported in MSM between Victoria Nuland and the U.S. ambassador to the Ukraine, gave us some candid insight into the scheming and plotting against the Yanukovitch Government at the time. Like it or not, he was the elected president of the Ukraine, who was removed by mob action...sort of like Morsi in Egypt. From my own limited awareness of the goings on in the Ukraine, Russia is the country with a vested interest in what goes on there...not the U.S.! Russia has that large naval base in Crimea...an autonomous territory that is mostly Russian and was added to the Ukraine by the Soviet Government in the 1950's.

If we can make a quick comparison: look at how the U.S. is propping up a ruthless potentate in the U.S. client state of Bahrain....a despot who even sent military forces into hospitals to shoot doctors and patients...without getting his name added to the list of bad actors in the ME and subject for regime change. Why? Because he gets the oil out of the ground and to western markets, and he hosts the largest U.S. naval base in the ME. What would the U.S. be willing to do to maintain the continued operation of that base? I would guess, just about anything...legal, illegal...at any cost. And yet, we're supposed to take idiot U.S. warhawks and chicken hawks seriously, as they keep rattling the cage of the beast who still has about 8000 nuclear warheads! The Neocon warhawks, who are so addicted to money from military procurements, would risk nuclear annihilation, to make a few more bucks selling their war toys and finding new wars to justify their existence and continued production!
Your problem is that you have the guy sitting in the White House TODAY that goes about threatening war and then drawing impotent 'red lines' and making empty threats.

I dont know if sending in the troops is the right answer. I DO know for certain that you cant threaten to hold your breath til you pass out as an effective foreign policy strategy. Obama is a limp moron and the world sees it and knows it.
 
Your problem is that you have the guy sitting in the White House TODAY that goes about threatening war and then drawing impotent 'red lines' and making empty threats.

I dont know if sending in the troops is the right answer. I DO know for certain that you cant threaten to hold your breath til you pass out as an effective foreign policy strategy. Obama is a limp moron and the world sees it and knows it.
I think it's a problem that he's threatening war in the first place! If he wasn't aware of what his staffers like Nuland were doing, he should have removed them as soon as possible afterwards. The Ukraine almost broke up in the immediate aftermath gaining independence in the aftermath of the fall of the Soviet Union. How did they not know that trying to pry the Ukraine out of the Russian orbit, would cause a break up?
 
MAD has kept the peace in Europe for half a century.
Call this a crazy idea but if you want real world peace then every country, no matter how small, should be armed with hundreds of nukes, that way nobody would be dumb enough to start a war with one another.




Sounds like a crazy idea to me.

Read some history, A Lot of dumb wars have been fought (Mostly without nuclear weapons.)
 
Sounds like a crazy idea to me.

Read some history, A Lot of dumb wars have been fought (Mostly without nuclear weapons.)

Ive read plenty, thank you. Why hasnt North Korea been attacked? Nukes. Why do you think Iran wants nukes? If Ukraine had their nukes Russia wouldnt be occupying half their country now.
 
Do you really believe Russia would start a war with the United States??

Even with Obama in charge they would never do that. Putin is making his moves only because Obama is weak and ineffective.

I suspect that Putin is making very cool, calculating moves. So far, there really isn't anything that he has done that seems reckless or without deep reflection. Monday will tell us just how much. Yulia Tymoshenko, the former leader just released from prison in the Ukraine since the rebels toppled the last Prime Minister, is going to Moscow to meet with Putin. Surprising turn of events. They formerly had a good working relationship. It will be interesting to see what they work out, leaving us then wondering if all the worry was for naught, the rebels having served their purpose, and Ukraine back in the fold of Russia's sphere of interest.
 
Can't say that he isn't trying to get those powers, isn't he? But that is not what makes a strong leader, and Obama doesn't have it. Reagan, Bush(s), even Clinton had the world's respect. Obama sowed the seeds for this way back on his apology tour and when Putin walked all over him when he sold out Poland. Remember his little groveling "I'll have more flexibility after the election"? Kind of sad, disgraceful, and bad for America. And now people are suffering because of it.

Whether he is trying to get power is not the same as having the same powers Putin wields. Obama is thankfully checked by the Congress and the Judiciary...who restrains Putin? Obama's tenure as President and his shortcommings make no difference in the actions of a man who has total freedom to act capriciously.
 
Chechnya was too extreme Muslim. Georgia had East Timor and the other place which were predominantly Russian thereby the lands also belong to the Russian government irrelevant of Georgia's integrity. Now Ukrainian Crimea is also predominantly Russian thereby it too belongs to the Russian government.

Are we not finding excuses always not to help these places? Then wonder why they work with Russians and sometimes against our interests?

Ukraine is in crossroads. It has either Russia or EU to join. If not helped when needed they could fall and then work with Russia against our interests.
 
Ive read plenty, thank you. Why hasnt North Korea been attacked? Nukes. Why do you think Iran wants nukes?
If Ukraine had their nukes Russia wouldnt be occupying half their country now.




That's your opinion, which you are welcome to.

And which I don't agree with and will ignore.




"The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen."
~ Tommy Smothers
 
Lets not blame all this on Obama! There's plenty americans now a days that are tired of US blood and treasure being consumed on the defense of or destruction of countries that aren't either a threat to us or vital to us. Obama had 70% of Americans opposed to him meddling in Syria.

I don't. These are problems that have been brewing for decades. Obama happens to be president now. His foreign policy always seems to be a day late and a dollar short. Much of what is in the news today could have been prevented with far, far less than will be required to address it eventually.
 
Ive read plenty, thank you. Why hasnt North Korea been attacked? Nukes. Why do you think Iran wants nukes? If Ukraine had their nukes Russia wouldnt be occupying half their country now.
North Korea having nukes is a fairly recent development. The real reason there has been another Korean war initally was China and or the USSR getting in the mix, then the North created a fail safe. That fail safe is some 50k rocket and artillary tube emplacements poised to strike Seoul a city of 19 million. When I was deployed out in that part of the world I got to help in a war game planning. The estimates are between 50 and 65% casualty for the civilian population in the first 12 hours of a major conflict. That's with just conventional munitions. The very real possibility is that Chem Bio Radiological weapons will be used. The nukes nk has are large, unwieldy barely weaponized for show more than having a serious militaey valuem
 
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