• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

Henrin said:
The two major groups that opposed the law had very different reason for doing so. One group was racist and wanted to continue to discriminate, and the other, was arguing that the law in question was a violation of property rights. I would be part of the later group.
Click to expand...
But you are now on the side of a group who doesnt say they are "racist" but says they "are fighting for religious freedom"? But still the major point is still alive that the civil rights movement fought against, and that is: allowing businesses to discriminate, only this time the reason has shifted...





Ok? I'm not following how what I said there does that.
Click to expand...
Civil Rights Act certainly lays precedent
 
AGENT J said:
its disgraceful that we are one of the only major countries that doesnt have federal protected maternity/paternity leave
etc etc
Click to expand...

I think you mean government mandated maternity/paternity leave. That issue is a matter between employer and employee. If they want such benefits they can ask for them, and if they won't give them what they want, they can unionize and try that avenue.
 
AGENT J said:
yep i agree in many ways, he id it because rights apply to us ALL, not special treatment or excluding those you don't like

instead of moving towards the goal of equality

many people are jockeying for poser and position on top

they only care about THEIR rights and **** everybody else lol

as you see in this thread many people are simply about me me me me
who cares about thier neighbors rights or fellow citizens, its pathetic and hypocritical


its disgraceful that we still discriminate against gays
its disgraceful that we are one of the only major countries that doesnt have federal protected maternity/paternity leave
etc etc
Click to expand...


Very well put. Don't get me wrong either my own country isn't perfect and a lot of other western countries are not either but America was the nation that helped bring stability to western Europe after WW2, they helped kick start industry again in the 20th century, they put a man on the moon and men like JFK, MLK etc helped bring equality not just to Americans but to many blacks worldwide. When I see these bills fought over in the US it makes me sad because America is a great country but it seems to me that it is so polarised nowadays and that they are no longer a country the rest of us can aspire to.
 
Henrin said:
It doesn't sound like anarchy at all. Government regulations on business do not protect human rights, but violate them, by imposing on innocent parties, and not allowing those offenders to resolve their own problems, but instead simply impose a solution to the problem that many times was not a problem at all.

Furthermore, why are you scared of anarchy? Where has it been tried that you know of?
Click to expand...



Where did I say that I was scared of anarchy? Let me explain what "could" happen if such a bill as this one passed throughout this country... I do not, of course, condone violence of any kind, BUT if I went into your business and you refused to serve me, your business may very well not be standing for very long....Anarchy? No, because MY rights were violated by YOU.... so anything goes at that point...Anarchy? Perhaps......
 
TheDemSocialist said:
But you are now on the side of a group who doesnt say they are "racist" but says they "are fighting for religious freedom"? But still the major point is still alive that the civil rights movement fought against, and that is: allowing businesses to discriminate, only this time the reason has shifted...
Click to expand...

I can do nothing about scumbags that decide to join my cause. They do not represent me and I will challenge them if they take part in discriminatory practices if victory is gained. However, that does not mean they are not right; in that, they have the right to practice their faith and use their business as an outlet if they so desire. It is hardly a good business decision, but they have the right to be fools and assholes. I will fight for their foolishness for now, and if they practice it, I will join you in making sure they go out of business.

Civil Rights Act certainly lays precedent
Click to expand...

It really does not. I do not disregard law, but challenge law in the hopes to change it.
 
Juanita said:
Where did I say that I was scared of anarchy? Let me explain what "could" happen if such a bill as this one passed throughout this country... I do not, of course, condone violence of any kind, BUT if I went into your business and you refused to serve me, your business may very well not be standing for very long....Anarchy? No, because MY rights were violated by YOU.... so anything goes at that point...Anarchy? Perhaps......
Click to expand...

What rights did I violate by denying you use of my property and service?
 
Henrin said:
I can do nothing about scumbags that decide to join my cause. They do not represent me and I will challenge them if they take part in discriminatory practices if victory is gained. However, that does not mean they are not right; in that, they have the right to practice their faith and use their business as an outlet if they so desire. It is hardly a good business decision, but they have the right to be fools and assholes. I will fight for their foolishness for now, and if they practice it, I will join you in making sure they go out of business.



It really does not. I do not disregard law, but challenge law in the hopes to change it.
Click to expand...

You basically said a contradictory statment.
"This does not represent me and i do not like discrimination, but i will stand up for people who use this law to discriminate people" :doh Seriously?
 
Henrin said:
I think you mean government mandated maternity/paternity leave. That issue is a matter between employer and employee. If they want such benefits they can ask for them, and if they won't give them what they want, they can unionize and try that avenue.
Click to expand...

exhibit A
thank you
 
Henrin said:
There couldn't be a more ludicrous statement made about libertarians than the one you just made.
Click to expand...



I disagree....Libertarians believe in freedom to discriminate... I noticed that "religious" convictions suddenly turned into "property" rights.. classic Rand Paul Libertarianism...
 
TheDemSocialist said:
You basically said a contradictory statment.
"This does not represent me and i do not like discrimination, but i will stand up for people who use this law to discriminate people" :doh Seriously?
Click to expand...

We have different reasons to support the argument. They are abusing the cause for selfish gain, but I can not deny that they are right in their argument that they have the right to practice their faith and use their business as an outlet if they so desire. That argument is not wrong, and it is something I fully endorse.
 
Juanita said:
I disagree....Libertarians believe in freedom to discriminate... I noticed that "religious" convictions suddenly turned into "property" rights.. classic Rand Paul Libertarianism...
Click to expand...

Rand Paul isn't really a libertarian. I would probably vote for him though.

If you believe in rights than you must believe in the right to discriminate. There is really no possible way you can not.
 
Higgins86 said:
Very well put. Don't get me wrong either my own country isn't perfect and a lot of other western countries are not either but America was the nation that helped bring stability to western Europe after WW2, they helped kick start industry again in the 20th century, they put a man on the moon and men like JFK, MLK etc helped bring equality not just to Americans but to many blacks worldwide. When I see these bills fought over in the US it makes me sad because America is a great country but it seems to me that it is so polarized nowadays and that they are no longer a country the rest of us can aspire to.
Click to expand...

of course i dindt take it as you were saying your country was perfect at all

and what really sad is what you see is NOT the majority of Americans, most american think **** like this is bat **** insane and mentally retarded also
we laugh at those idiots

but unfortunately the squeakiest wheels get the coverage and they inspire the game of politics instead of real people sane people but it comes in cycles and its getting better
 
Juanita said:
Yep, they believe in freedom for themselves, but not anyone else....
Click to expand...

that is wrong libertarian's believe in liberty for everyone, however being discriminated against is not a rights infringement, by the business owner.

you have no exercisable rights on another person's property, only privileges the owner allows you.

liberty means , freedom to be foolish, stupid, and wrong in your personal decision making.
 
Henrin said:
We have different reasons to support the argument. They are abusing the cause for selfish gain, but I can not deny that they are right in their argument that they have the right to practice their faith and use their business as an outlet if they so desire. That argument is not wrong, and it is something I fully endorse.
Click to expand...

So now the argument to discriminate is right? So therefore is someones religion goes against practicing people with minorities you support it(or any "x, y or z cause")?
 
ernst barkmann said:
that is wrong libertarian's believe in liberty for everyone, however being discriminated against is not a rights infringement, by the business owner.

you have no exercisable rights on another person's property, only privileges the owner allows you.

liberty means , freedom to be foolish, stupid, and wrong in your personal decision making.
Click to expand...


The bolded is something like I was searching for earlier. Very nice. :)
 
TheDemSocialist said:
So now the argument to discriminate is right? So therefore is someones religion goes against practicing people with minorities you support it(or any "x, y or z cause")?
Click to expand...

I'm not following. What does "practicing people with minorities" mean??
 
Higgins86 said:
America is still a country I look at to do the right thing but these bull**** debates over silly religious bills puts you back decades and hurts your global image.
Click to expand...

Oh really...Tsk Tsk. Tell me did it hurt France's image when Socialist Hollande in May 2013 shoved through Same Sex Marriage and it caused such a riot in the streets of Paris, 400,000 strong. Did that hurt their global image and if so do you think the protesters cared?
 
Higgins86 said:
Very well put. Don't get me wrong either my own country isn't perfect and a lot of other western countries are not either but America was the nation that helped bring stability to western Europe after WW2, they helped kick start industry again in the 20th century, they put a man on the moon and men like JFK, MLK etc helped bring equality not just to Americans but to many blacks worldwide. When I see these bills fought over in the US it makes me sad because America is a great country but it seems to me that it is so polarised nowadays and that they are no longer a country the rest of us can aspire to.
Click to expand...

I do not even attempt to be seen as admirable to people from Europe. Your views are not those that I endorse, and not those that can lead to a free country. With that in mind, it is undoubtable my actions will disappoint you. That however, is not my concern, and if you were wise you would admire freedom, not these laws.
 
Henrin said:
I'm not following. What does "practicing people with minorities" mean??
Click to expand...

A business that wishes to do other business with people who are considered minorities such as "blacks, latinos, asian, gay, bi sexual".
 
vesper said:
Oh really...Tsk Tsk. Tell me did it hurt France's image when Socialist Hollande in May 2013 shoved through Same Sex Marriage and it caused such a riot in the streets of Paris, 400,000 strong. Did that hurt their global image and if so do you think the protesters cared?
Click to expand...

yes it did but your comparing France to the USA, 100 years ago maybe France would of had that kind of impact globally but now they do not. The US is still the country I look at to set examples for us to follow, the US is the most powerful country worldwide and keeps the peace. I watch her movies, east some of her food, drink her drinks, anything the US does is scrutinized worldwide and we all take notice.
 
Henrin said:
Rand Paul isn't really a libertarian. I would probably vote for him though.

If you believe in rights than you must believe in the right to discriminate. There is really no possible way you can not.
Click to expand...



I must believe in the right to discriminate???????? Are you serious?? Perhaps this land of freedom is not the right land for you....
 
TheDemSocialist said:
A business that wishes to do other business with people who are considered minorities such as "blacks, latinos, asian, gay, bi sexual".
Click to expand...

Ah..yes. Well then, yes, there is no difference between one group of people and another here.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom