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Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor

Paperview said:
No. The CRA and the many states versions of their CRA's apply to businesses open to the general public.
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The states would not need to if that were actually a part of the CRA. How do you explain golf courses then?
 
The Preamble to The Bill of Rights

Congress of the United States
begun and held at the City of New-York, on
Wednesday the fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.

THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its [ FEDERAL] powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
" nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
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Didn't happen. They were protecting the rights of private enterprise.

1.)They are therefore have the power to discriminate and if you are discriminating against such people you're not equally protected under the law.
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The amendment deals with states, not private enterprise. Just because the state passes a law dealing with private enterprise does not mean they violated the 14th amendment. You're just trying to make it so no can ever overturn your crap.
 
ernst barkmann said:
governments cannot discriminate per the constitution.

citizens can be discriminated by other citizens because the constitution does not apply to citizens or business.

government works in the interest of the people, a citizen works in his own interest.

its amazing that so many people wish to violate rights of citizens, ....just because they dont like how a another citizen behaves.
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So I'll assume you want some or all of the 1964 Civil Rights Act repealed?
 
Henrin said:
Didn't happen. They were protecting the rights of private enterprise.



The amendment deals with states, not private enterprise. Just because the state passes a law dealing with private enterprise does not mean they violated the 14th amendment. You're just trying to make it so no can ever overturn your crap.
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A state passing a discrimination bill is depriving people.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
A state passing a discrimination bill is depriving people.
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No, the amendment does not address states passing laws to allow private individuals to discriminate. You're reaching pretty hard with this one, and while the Supreme Court might agree with you at some point, logic does not.
 
clownboy said:
No need to create anything, the distinctions have been in place forever. The problem with your solution is that we don't have that sort of nanny system yet. The Constitutions, state and federal, regulate what the GOVERNMENT can do. Government discrimination is already addressed by law.
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So a baker can not make a cake, can a gas station refuse gas? Can a supermarket refuse service? What about a laundromat? I mean really this is ridiculous and the distinctions are not clear at all. You're implying discrimination is ok in anything not government or "vital". I think you've realized this line of thinking is a disaster and now you're trying to pull back.
 
Henrin said:
No, the amendment does not address states passing laws to allow private individuals to discriminate. You're reaching pretty hard with this one, and while the Supreme Court might agree with you at some point, logic does not.
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the 14th amendment basically states that all U.S. Citizens, regardless of race, have the same rights and will be offered the same lives as any other.
 
thedemsocialist said:
a state allowing discrimination is depriving....
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a state government cannot discriminate.

But a state has no powers per a constitution to control the behavior of a citizen because he does not like another citizen.

Government is here to secure the rights of citizens, not to control their behavior and make them do what the state wants, that's not liberty.
 
Paperview said:
Private clubs can discriminate. Maybe you didn't know that.
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Putting conditions on when and when someone can not control the use of their property is a violation of property rights. There is no reason to accept that only private clubs can discriminate. None.
 
Henrin said:
No...
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LoL now you won't even explain yourself anymore even though your positions contradict each other, I think we're done here.
 
thedemsocialist said:
the 14th amendment basically states that all u.s. Citizens, regardless of race, have the same rights and will be offered the same lives as any other.
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its states.... That government will treat them equally, not other people.

Constitutions do not apply to people...
 
TheDemSocialist said:
the 14th amendment basically states that all U.S. Citizens, regardless of race, have the same rights and will be offered the same lives as any other.
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You do realize that this argument of yours is absurd on its face, right? Denying the right to people to control their property violates the very meaning of what you just told me. Try again?
 
clownboy said:
So, CostCo could discriminate in your view? Sam's club? How about bars that have a cover charge?
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CostCo and Sam's Club have membership fees but that doesn't actually make them a "private club." They're a business, like the bar with a cover.
 
Verax said:
So a baker can not make a cake, can a gas station refuse gas? Can a supermarket refuse service? What about a laundromat? I mean really this is ridiculous and the distinctions are not clear at all. You're implying discrimination is ok in anything not government or "vital". I think you've realized this line of thinking is a disaster and now you're trying to pull back.
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Nope to that last. You're almost understanding the country you've lived in for what I assume is decades now. Yes, a gas station can and should be able to refuse to sell you gas. A supermarket can and should be able to refuse to sell you food.

The distinction for vital services are enshrined in law, sorry if you find anything unclear in that. And I am not implying it, I'm saying it.
 
Verax said:
So I'll assume you want some or all of the 1964 Civil Rights Act repealed?
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the 1964 civil rights act is legal only in the sense, when it applies to government.

government has no authority over the people, unless they violate the rights of another citizen, or cause a health and saftey concern.

when a citizen is on another citizens property, ...a citizen, has no EXERCISABLE rights at all.

a citizen cant excise a right on someones property.... unless the property owner gives his permission.
 
Verax said:
LoL now you won't even explain yourself anymore even though your positions contradict each other, I think we're done here.
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Nothing about my position contradicts itself. I was very clear in my argument, and as I said, private enterprise is not government.
 
Deuce said:
CostCo and Sam's Club have membership fees but that doesn't actually make them a "private club." They're a business, like the bar with a cover.
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No difference between CostCo charging a membership (btw, you don't just buy the membership but also apply to join) and a golf course doing the same. The private golf course is also a business.
 
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