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Pentegon set to release new cuts to Active Duty

I think before we again start talking about cutting the military, we should hold the governments feet to the fire over fixing entitlements....It's kind of like this whole immigration thing. Fix the border security first then talk about the rest....
The idea behind the terms of the sequester was to make sure everyone would try their best to negotiate their way out of it. That didn't happen. Now it's time to pay the Piper and far too late to bitch.
 
I am all for cuts to federal spending including the military. The biggest problem with this is that the military won't cut in the right places. The military wastes so much money on useless crap it is unbelievable. I guarantee the military will cut things like unit training funds way before they cut things like generals doing battlefield circulations. Or how about stop sending people to jump school and than continuing to pay those people jump pay when they are not in a job that will ever make a combat jump.
The war in Astan and Iraq were perfect examples of military waste. There were so many high level commands over there soaking up resources when they could have done everything they needed to do conus. With things like SatCom and siper net it dosent matter if you are in the next room or the other side of the world so why deploy them.

I am in a unit that runs pretty high on rank but for the short time I was in BAF I am sure I saw more Cols and CW5s than I normally see in a week. And where there is one Col there is a ton of lower folks supporting him.
True.

Just like all other bureaucracies. Are there any that don't have waste?

This is why so many of us want the smallest government possible.
 
The idea behind the terms of the sequester was to make sure everyone would try their best to negotiate their way out of it. That didn't happen. Now it's time to pay the Piper and far too late to bitch.
Time to go back to making sausage...
 
All the equipment in the world is useless without the manpower to use it.
All the manpower in the world is useless without the proper equipment. It takes a good balance of the two or you have nothing.
 
I would like everyone to sever, but it isn't practical in our nation.

Do they get to keep their weapon after the two years is up?
Only if they remain in the militia. ;)
 
True.

Just like all other bureaucracies. Are there any that don't have waste?

This is why so many of us want the smallest government possible.
I agree completely. If the average person had any idea just how much the military wastes I imagine there would be plenty of outrage. But I guess the exact same thing could be said for the government as a whole. I am just in the Army so I see that first hand.
 
I agree completely. If the average person had any idea just how much the military wastes I imagine there would be plenty of outrage. But I guess the exact same thing could be said for the government as a whole. I am just in the Army so I see that first hand.

I was in for 11 years. I have also seen government waste elsewhere. In reality, the military probably wastes less of a percentage of it's money than other government bureaucracies.

How many other government bureaucracies have you seen first hand?
 
I think (as a non American) the cuts are manpower cuts to reduce down to pre WW2 levels - not to reduce equipment down to pre WW2 levels.

This graph may help you understand how you're still spending at least as much as the next 14 biggest spenders on the military and that includes Russia and China's budget combined.

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Why do you "need" to spend 3 times as much as China and Russia's total yearly expenditure anyway?

Don't you realize stuff cost a fortune here in the US. ;)
 
This topic is specifically about the Army, where these cuts would not have much of an impact on our ability to provide aid which is mostly done by the Navy and Marine Corps in terms of total volume.

You still cannot rebuild an army overnight if needed. Consider it work to keep the military employed while waiting for real world needs of the Army. The same with any other branch. You cannot assemble it overnight.

Remember the quote "As you know, ah, you go to war with the army you have---not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time." This is because Clinton cut our military too much, and even the time leading up, we were unable to rebuild as we wanted.
 
No army ever won a war acting defensively. You win a war by attacking.

Then that means you start a war, very bad idea. You don't have to worry about winning a war if you don't attack somebody and start a war.
 
Obama not only let Putin invade Georgia, he praised him for it.

I wouldn't feel to 'safe' if I were you.

I'm feeling very safe.
 
Then that means you start a war, very bad idea. You don't have to worry about winning a war if you don't attack somebody and start a war.
I didn't know we started WWII...
 
I was in for 11 years. I have also seen government waste elsewhere. In reality, the military probably wastes less of a percentage of it's money than other government bureaucracies.

How many other government bureaucracies have you seen first hand?

Did you ever make it to Iraq or Astan. Those places make all the rest of the waste I have seen the army do look like peanuts.

As to others that I have seen first hand only from some inlaws the awesomeness that is the welfare system. I have spent a fair amount of time learning about others
 
Did you ever make it to Iraq or Astan. Those places make all the rest of the waste I have seen the army do look like peanuts.

As to others that I have seen first hand only from some inlaws the awesomeness that is the welfare system.
You can expect all kinds of waste during war. Sorry, I get out until after the cold war ended. They replaced my job with civilians since the security levels were no longer needed. I didn't like my choices for MOS changes available, so in '92, I took the $28k bonus to get out. I did see some extra waste during Desert Storm, but wasn't there.
 
how about we cut chuck hagels pay, health benefits and retirement. I mean after all a soldier has to serve 20 years for a pension and a congressman 5.
I think we should switch them the solders get the better pay and benefits like hagel gets and hagel if he can make it has to serve 20+ years to get a small pension.

as for pay hagel can get enlisted pay.

I am all for cleaning up the spending going on in the military, but not on the backs of our soldiers.
 
how about we cut chuck hagels pay, health benefits and retirement. I mean after all a soldier has to serve 20 years for a pension and a congressman 5.
I think we should switch them the solders get the better pay and benefits like hagel gets and hagel if he can make it has to serve 20+ years to get a small pension.

as for pay hagel can get enlisted pay.

I am all for cleaning up the spending going on in the military, but not on the backs of our soldiers.

Being in congress was never meant to be a career. They shouldn't get a pension.
 
Being in congress was never meant to be a career. They shouldn't get a pension.

ahh but they do and hagel makes over 100k a year serving as a congressman. plus all the other perks he gets.
you only have to serve 5 years a s congressman to get a pension. soldier 20 years.

sad but true. maybe hagel should think on that before trying to cut out our soldiers.
 
To keep referring to the next generation military equipment as "toys" makes me wonder whether you really do agree with me. Vast technological superiority IS the deterrence I was speaking about. It's not total troops (China and North Korea trounce us), it is the huge gap between US military technology and everyone else.

As for the soldiers pay, it is really a separate issue. Ask the soldier on the front line if he would give up hellfire missile support for an extra $50 in his paycheck.

Yes, paying soldiers more is a noble goal that I support, but not at the cost of technological superiority that helps the US keep those soldiers alive both on the battlefield and by keeping them off the battlefield all together through deterrence.

These aren't "toys".

well in reference to your next gen tech,most of it is just toys.

for example the m4's they are replacing m16's with have no standard while the m16 has to be built to a specific pattern,all m16's fire the same,but m4's vary wildly depending on who built them,varying in accuracy,trigger pull,wieght distribution etc.

another is our matv trucks,almost everyone i know in line units hates them with a passion,they are trucks that cant carry any cargo,troop carriers that can barely hold troops,and armored patrol vehicles with windows so small patrols become difficult.the only people ive seen like them were fobbits.oh and they tend to break down more often than they run.


another is the maxppro mrap,its an armored troop carrier,but has no way to secure gear,short of making your own mans,which then uses room to carry troops.it also is horrible offroad and super easy to flip,its like the person who designed it believed all combat zones woukld occur on pavement and that ied's would never be used to flip them,basically self defeating.


last example,the acu uniform,it uses velcro which is great at alerting enemy forces,its camo patter worked ok in iraq in light colored sand,but failed horribly everywhere else except urban environments outside the middle east.the pattern was so bad that literally every fob had gravel matching to it put in so it blended into something.the army research facility even admitted it was selected without trials,despite evidence showing it was among the worst possible candidates,while at the same time multicam rated very high because its ability to atleast perform decent in all environment,even though sspecialized camo was better to a specific environment.
 
All the equipment in the world is useless without the manpower to use it.

I think that is what the discussion is - equipment vs manpower. You spend vast amounts on equipment as it is.

Partially because we protect our allies that don't spend so much

They tend to spend what they can - 2% of GDP as opposed to the US' 4%. You could and should simply demand that NATO countries take a greater burden. If more European nations (Denmark / Belgium / Germany etc) spent the same proportion as France and the UK you wouldn't need to run bases in Europe.

How much do the people making military equipment in China make vs. our union labor in Boeing et al?

Manufacture is being shipped back to the West from China due to higher labour costs in China so that doesn't account for the vast difference.
 
I am totally against cutting pay/benefits to soldiers...that is just asinine.

But I am also totally for drastic cuts to the size of the U.S. military.

America is broke, still running massive deficits, has a (IMO) stagnating economy and is involved in no declared wars or even a Cold War...there is no excuse for the staggering amounts of money being thrown at the military industrial complex (so much for Ike's warning).

I say slash the military to a tiny full time, huge reserve armed forces...and slash the military budget with it (though keep up R/D spending and low rate production of high tech weapons systems).

But do not decrease full time pay/benefits...if anything, increase them.
 
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