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Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Tourism is down because folks don't want to risk getting caught in the war that illegals are bringing over with them from Mexico. I don't think most folks are all that eager to visit any open drug trade route.

None of my conservative friends hesitate to go to AZ...most are down there right now. They're not afraid of a darn thing.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

I've seen plenty of overtly excessive sexual display in too many places here in Austin but, this place is crawling with them.

I dont particularly want to see that from straight couples either. Are you critical of them as well?
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

If a gay man enters a restaurant how can you tell if he is Gay unless he is flaunting his sexuality.

What if that is the way he acts naturally? I mean....a person's personality is their personality...I find loads of people offensive in public. Has nothing to do with their orientation. And it's not my right to object. I can leave if I dont like it. If they are disruptive I guess I could complain to the management if I'm in an establishment but that's not generally my style.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

When I'm eating, pretty much. When I'm eating with young ones, definitely.

It's up to you of course but I see no point in teaching the young that there's anything wrong with being gay.

Why would you do that? Religious beliefs? What is the point? So that they will also hate or at least be intolerant and exclude?

Gays arent going anywhere and they cant teach your kid to be gay if they're not gay. Kids deal with the kids of gay parents in schools, they have gay teachers, probably. And if not now, next yr or so.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451]

Unless the homophobes actually say it out loud, as they often do on this board, as you say the KKK does in real life .

No, you see, a phobia is an anxiety disorder, defined by fear of an object or situation where the person goes to great lengths to avoid whatever it might be. It does not mean that the person oppose or other show hate towards a certain group like you are assuming it does. The bigots you see talk against gays aren't doing it because they have some sort of anxiety disorder, but because they don't accept their lifestyle and they are taking measures because of it. Not accepting someone for who they are and treating them like dirt doesn't mean someone has an anxiety disorder, and you shouldn't assume that it does. Also, racism is not a phobia and to equate any sort of phobia with it is simply wrong.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451]

The NFL now says racist and homophobic are 15-yard penalties, the same.
Maybe a combo will get you 30.
To differentiate between racism and homophobia is noted, and disagreed with .
No, you see, a phobia is an anxiety disorder, defined by fear of an object or situation where the person goes to great lengths to avoid whatever it might be. It does not mean that the person oppose or other show hate towards a certain group like you are assuming it does. The bigots you see talk against gays aren't doing it because they have some sort of anxiety disorder, but because they don't accept their lifestyle and they are taking measures because of it. Not accepting someone for who they are and treating them like dirt doesn't mean someone has an anxiety disorder, and you shouldn't assume that it does. Also, racism is not a phobia and to equate any sort of phobia with it is simply wrong.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451]

The NFL now says racist and homophobic are 15-yard penalties, the same.
Maybe a combo will get you 30.
To differentiate between racism and homophobia is noted, and disagreed with .

I would love for you to prove the existence of homophobia, but of course you can actually do that, since it was created as a term to attack opponents with. Yes, I will differentiate between racism and phobias because like it or not racism is not a phobia.
 
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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

I dont particularly want to see that from straight couples either. Are you critical of them as well?

Yes. There's a time and place for that activity.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451]

I would love for you to prove the existence of homophobia, but of course you can actually do that, since it was created as a term to attack opponents with. Yes, I will differentiate between racism and phobias because like it or not racism is not a phobia.

Having an irrational fear of a thing is considered a phobia.

Irrationally fearing homosexuality could be termed as Homophobia.

Racism is the dislike of a people based on the race they belong to.

Homosexuality is not a race, and in fact exists within them all.


One can fear a race, and many do....but, this would be separately termed.

Perhaps Asianiphobia? Negroidophobia? Caucasiaphobia?
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451]

Unless the homophobes actually say it out loud, as they often do on this board, as you say the KKK does in real life .

They don't

Disliking someone or their lifestyle is not fear

Homophobia is thought to be a fear
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451]

When 'cheering?'

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that they were not informing their managers of their actions and that they'd have been fired if they made it known and persisted.
One of those people was my ex wife, and no she didn't try to hide it (it's a big sign everyone sees) and no she wasn't fired. She told management of her view and they told her just to use that sign. It was never a problem.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451]

No, you see, a phobia is an anxiety disorder, defined by fear of an object or situation where the person goes to great lengths to avoid whatever it might be. It does not mean that the person oppose or other show hate towards a certain group like you are assuming it does. The bigots you see talk against gays aren't doing it because they have some sort of anxiety disorder, but because they don't accept their lifestyle and they are taking measures because of it. Not accepting someone for who they are and treating them like dirt doesn't mean someone has an anxiety disorder, and you shouldn't assume that it does. Also, racism is not a phobia and to equate any sort of phobia with it is simply wrong.
They don't

Disliking someone or their lifestyle is not fear

Homophobia is thought to be a fear


for some reason, some psychologists see homophobia as a real condition.
HOMOPHOBIA

(George Weinberg, "a heterosexual psychologist")
“I coined the word homophobia to mean it was a
phobia about homosexuals….It was a fear of
homosexuals which seemed to be associated with a
fear of contagion, a fear of reducing the things one
fought for—home and family. It was a religious
fear and it had led to great brutality as fear always
does.”
Related to the question of whether homophobia is really about intense, irrational fear is the question of whether it is about diagnosis. Some activists and commentators have embraced the language of psychopathology in discussing homophobia (Brownworth, 2001; Elliott, 1988; Johnson, 1993; Lerner, 1993). Most of their analyses can be considered mainly rhetorical, but some clinicians have argued that homophobia is indeed a psychopathology and others have implicitly accepted homophobia as a valid clinical label for at least some individuals (Kantor, 1998; see also Guindon, Green, & Hanna, 2003; Jones & Sullivan, 2002). Empirical data to support this conceptualization are lacking. Strong aversions and even fear responses to homosexuality are observed in some mentally ill patients. But the broad assertion that homophobia is a pathology seems as unfounded as earlier arguments that homosexuality was an illness.

most interesting to more tolerant folks is that it has been shown that those with the strongest anti-gay sentiments are often sexually aroused when they view gay porn
Homophobic Men Most Aroused by Gay Male Porn | Psychology Today

One study asked heterosexal men how comfortable and anxious they are around gay men. Based on these scores, they then divided these men into two groups: men that are homophobic, and men who are not. These men were then shown three, four-minute videos. ... While this was happening, a device was attached to each participant's penis.
<snip>
When viewing lesbian sex and straight sex, both the homophobic and the non-homophobic men showed increased penis circumference. For gay male sex, however, only the homophobic men showed heightened penis arousal.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Risky Thicket;1062953294 Google is reportedly looking at adding a major center in Arizona.[B said:
No doubt everyone working for major businesses are white, born again, male and straight[/B]..

..you wanna back that crock of BS up...?


the bill is stupid , it sucks... but this statement is equally misguided. C'mon
 
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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451]

Homophobia however is merely an imaginary fear .

I have to wonder if my red neck phobia is real or imagined?
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451]

I think this bill is wrong on all levels. But to be clear, please post the actual text of the bill and show everyone where it specifies the words,: gay, lesbian, homosexual, or sexual.

What's the matter? Fingers not working? Do it yourself.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

your problem is you believe rights are collective [ democracy], and that society determines what rights are [ which is what France does], and how people will exercise them, this is not the case, the founders are clear rights are individual rights.

a collective body in your mind has a lien on my rights and choose them for me,...........however.....unalienable, means no lien can be placed on them.


I like this post. You are right- I do think that the unwritten social contract that all societies have places limits on some "inalienable" rights.

For example: Inalienable right to private property
but... social contract states no property is absolutely private. Thus imminent domain, zoning codes and taxation are valid concepts.

All societies have determined that society, as a whole, retains some degree of ownership over every piece of property in that society. How often, and under what circumstances society excercizes this contract, can vary from almost always, to almost never (of which I favor "almost never").

under the constitution of the founders, conscription would be unconstitutional.

because it violates the founding principles.

I dont think so. Various forms of conscription were used in both during the revolutionary war and post war. Though conscription was haphazard, the Founding fathers evidiently believed that conscription as a concept was valid and a legitimate use of state authority. Conscription in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thus, the Founding Fathers appeared to retain the unwritten social contract that individuals could be forced to participate in the common defense.
 
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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

I like this post. I also think you are right, I do think that some olbigations (social contract) are societal and that while we have unalienable rights, government still retains authority to enforce the social contract.

For example: Inalienable right to private property
but... social contract states no property is absolutely private. Thus imminent domain, zoning codes and taxation are valid concepts.

Please note that the social concept of "no property is absolutely private" can be applied very broadly (maoism) to very nominally. I prefer the very nominal level. Even still, the main point is that all societies have determined that society, as a whole retains some sense degree of ownership over every piece of property in that society. How often society excercizes this contract, can vary from almost always, to almost never.



I dont think so. Various forms of conscription were used in both during the revolutionary war and post war. Though conscription was haphazard, the Founding fathers evidiently believed that conscription as a concept was valid and a legitimate use of state authority. Conscription in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thus, the Founding Fathers appeared to retain the unwritten social contract that individuals could be forced to participate in the common defense.

find for me anything in a constitution, which gives government social authority in people life's!

prove your various forms!
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451]

What's the matter? Fingers not working? Do it yourself.

I did, and the words were not in the text. I thought since you posted the OP you read the bill first to confirm, but that is obviously not part of your MO.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451]

I did, and the words were not in the text. I thought since you posted the OP you read the bill first to confirm, but that is obviously not part of your MO.

Are you really trying to suggest this bill meant something else? Really?
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451]

Are you really trying to suggest this bill meant something else? Really?

Nope, just trying to be honest and accurate in what the bill actually says. It sucks big time in it's concept.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

find for me anything in a constitution, which gives government social authority in people life's!
prove your various forms!

That is a good question.

I cant show a copy of the unwritten social contract exists. What I can show is that all societies have had one and that the Founding Fathers of our society never voided some of its principals (mandatory service in common defense, no property is absolutely private and can thus be taxed, or claimed under imminent domain).

Can you think of any societies that held that: One could not be forced to participate in the common defense / group assistance and that property was absolutely private and thus could not be taxed, taken via imminent domain etc?
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451]

Nope, just trying to be honest and accurate

Honest and accurate? Oh you mean in a Fake News kind of way? Wink, wink.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451]

Are you really trying to suggest this bill meant something else? Really?

If its open ended, and it sounds like it is, you can decline service by referencing your religion. Similar to the ability to refuse combat assignments in the military.
 
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