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Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

That is why this bill is baloney.

That's why? Why? You never stated a why. How am I supposed to know why when you didn't write it out and explain it? Writing "This is why" is no help in terms of explanation.

Companies are not people, you can't discriminate on the basis of religion.

Companies most certainly can be people. There are proprietorships and partnerships, which are people. The law says we can't discriminate on the basis of religion and people are working to overturn this draconian infringement on human rights.

If you can't see that, I feel bad for you.

Thank you. You make me feel loved and cared for. It's nice of you to feel badly for me.

This is America, not a theocracy.

Tell me about it. This is supposed to the land of freedom and instead we all get the Religion of Liberalism firehosed down our throats.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

That's why? Why? You never stated a why. How am I supposed to know why when you didn't write it out and explain it. Writing "This is why" is no help in terms of explanation.



Companies most certainly can be people. There are proprietorships and partnerships, which are people. The law says we can't discriminate on the basis of religion and people are working to overturn this draconian infringement on human rights.



Thank you. You make me feel loved and cared for. It's nice of you to feel badly for me.



Tell me about it. This is supposed to the land of freedom and instead we all get the Religion of Liberalism firehosed down our throats.

Religion of liberalism? Oh my, the hyperbole machine is full on.

This has nothing to do with liberal/conservative. Turn off your talk radio and think for once. This is a bill that allows discrimination. It is the typical ALEC playbook, and if you don't think that it can discriminate against you, you are sorely misinformed.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

We all understand that if a woman doesn't want to be naked in front of a man she has every right to make that call.

So now there are some excuses which permit sexual discrimination? Only if we all understand why a woman chooses to sexually discriminate, but how about if we don't reach unanimity? Now what?

Isn't it clear to everyone by now that some people don't want to do business with homosexuals? That understanding should be as widespread as the understanding that some women don't want to be examined by male physicians.

So if she prefers a female gyno she isn't discriminating she is respecting her right to decide who she is naked in front of.

Wait - she has a right? Don't we all have a right to associate with people of our own choosing? Why doesn't a baker have a right to not have an association he doesn't want forced upon him?

Your perspective however is based on the assumption that such a decision is rooted in a fundamental belief that males are inferior as gynecologists because they are male as opposed to being rooted in a womans decision to chose who she is naked in front of.

My position is not based on any such assumption. My position is that the woman doesn't have to have any reason and she doesn't have to explain herself to me, or anyone else. But everyone else, including all businesses, have that very same right.

If a girl doesn't want to date a boy-nerd, then she can discriminate against him by refusing to date him, talk to him, look at him. Freedom of association is a fundamental human right. To force people into associations is a horrendous evil.

If a homosexual is offended by being refused service, the remedy here should not be to violate the human rights of a baker in order to make a homosexual feel good about himself. Feeling good about oneself is not a human right. Freedom of association, on the other hand, is a human right. So back to the woman - it would be a violation of her human rights to force her to see a male physician when she chooses to sexually discriminate against male physicians in favor of female physicians. Discrimination is the handmaiden of freedom of choice. You're pro-choice, aren't you?
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Religion of liberalism?

You're forcing me to submit to your ideas. Religion, as a category, is simply a set of ideas about God and the afterlife. Being forced to submit to ideas is a bad thing.

It is the typical ALEC playbook, and if you don't think that it can discriminate against you, you are sorely misinformed.

I'm discriminated against all the damn time. This is like freedom of speech - you don't have to approve of a person's speech in order to defend their right to exercise that freedom.

If the price of freedom involves more discrimination falling onto me and inconveniencing me, then I'm willing to take any added discrimination people want to shove onto me.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

You're forcing me to submit to your ideas. Religion, as a category, is simply a set of ideas about God and the afterlife. Being forced to submit to ideas is a bad thing.



I'm discriminated against all the damn time. This is like freedom of speech - you don't have to approve of a person's speech in order to defend their right to exercise that freedom.

If the price of freedom involves more discrimination falling onto me and inconveniencing me, then I'm willing to take any added discrimination people want to shove onto me.

No, you are just making up the usual blather from someone with no argument.

You are not discriminated against, trust me, you aren't

But, oddly you crave the right to discriminate against others.

Character flaw
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

No, you are just making up the usual blather from someone with no argument.

You say that and yet you don't actually engage with the argument, or if you prefer, the non-argument, that I make.

You are not discriminated against, trust me, you aren't

Awww, you know such much about me. I'm touched. Remember that time I asked Becky out on a date and she discriminated against me and went out with Brock Roughneck instead? She rejected me for who I was. Come to think of it, maybe you're right, maybe it would be a better world if I, and others like me, didn't have to be rejected and hurt for simply being who we are. If only you, or some cop, was there right at that moment and could witness her damn dirty discriminating behavior towards me, you or the cop could have forced her to go out on a date with me. That would certainly have been the better outcome. I could have driven down to Arnold's Drive-In, then cruised the strip with her in my Boss car, and I could have been spared the hurt feelings of being a victim of discrimination.

Hey, hold on a second. If you know so much about me, then you probably already know this story, and if you know this story, then that means you probably saw this all go down, so why didn't you step in and force Becky to stop discriminating against me?
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

You say that and yet you don't actually engage with the argument, or if you prefer, the non-argument, that I make.



Awww, you know such much about me. I'm touched. Remember that time I asked Becky out on a date and she discriminated against me and went out with Brock Roughneck instead? She rejected me for who I was. Come to think of it, maybe you're right, maybe it would be a better world if I, and others like me, didn't have to be rejected and hurt for simply being who we are. If only you, or some cop, was there right at that moment and could witness her damn dirty discriminating behavior towards me, you or the cop could have forced her to go out on a date with me. That would certainly have been the better outcome. I could have driven down to Arnold's Drive-In, then cruised the strip with her in my Boss car, and I could have been spared the hurt feelings of being a victim of discrimination.

Hey, hold on a second. If you know so much about me, then you probably already know this story, and if you know this story, then that means you probably saw this all go down, so why didn't you step in and force Becky to stop discriminating against me?

More baloney.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

What's with your disparaging comments about human rights?

You are making things up.

This bill allows people to hide under the guise of religion so that they can discriminate.

Plain and simple.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

You are making things up.

This bill allows people to hide under the guise of religion so that they can discriminate.

Plain and simple.

I'm not making up anything. To prevent discrimination is to use the power of government to force people into associations that they don't wish to be a part of. Do you want to have government force you into friendships or romantic relationships or into commercial relationship so that other people's feelings don't get hurt? That's an unjust trade-off. Yeah, it's nice when people don't have their feelings hurt by being rejected, but to stop those feelings from being hurt requires a brutal assault on human rights.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

I'm not making up anything. To prevent discrimination is to use the power of government to force people into associations that they don't wish to be a part of. Do you want to have government force you into friendships or romantic relationships or into commercial relationship so that other people's feelings don't get hurt? That's an unjust trade-off. Yeah, it's nice when people don't have their feelings hurt by being rejected, but to stop those feelings from being hurt requires a brutal assault on human rights.

You pretty much ran out of things to say, didn't ya? This is a badly written bill, allowing for discrimination by religion by businesses.

Plain and simple.

Hopefully "GED Jan" will veto it, because it will cost our state lots of business.

BTW, the other legislators tried to add parts to this bill, one would require a business to post a sign on their front door who they were going to discriminate against, the republican majority voted it down.

If the company has the right to discriminate against anything that their religion finds offensive (christians can't allow women on their periods, because the bible says so!) then why not have a sign saying "no jews, no homosexuals, no bisexuals allowed" on the front door?

Walk the talk.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

If the company has the right to discriminate against anything that their religion finds offensive (christians can't allow women on their periods, because the bible says so!) then why not have a sign saying "no jews, no homosexuals, no bisexuals allowed" on the front door?

Walk the talk.

You seem to have a fetish about women on their periods, but thanks for sharing.

As for the signs, yeah, go for it, says I. Three cheers for restoring human rights.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Yes people, property owners have the right to kick you off their property and it's about damn time the government starts protecting that right. Yes people, people have the right to refuse to associate with you and it's about damn time the government starts protecting that right. Yes people, people have the right to their own labor and service and it's about damn time the government starts protecting that right. My problem with this bill is that it treats it as if the property owner has to notify people that they refuse to provide them service, and to be frank, that is a violation of rights.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

This bill allows people to hide under the guise of religion so that they can discriminate.

Plain and simple.

So what?
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

No, you are just making up the usual blather from someone with no argument.

You are not discriminated against, trust me, you aren't

But, oddly you crave the right to discriminate against others.

Character flaw

I guess some people are just against human rights. You just happen to be against the very foundation of them.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

I guess some people are just against human rights. You just happen to be against the very foundation of them.

the foundation of human rights is that all men and women are equal in the eyes of society and the law.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

So atheist business owners could deny service to religious customers, so long as they assert that it's because of their atheism? Bet that would make a lot of religious idiots scream.

Bet the relatively few atheists by comparison would be wailing too, once they go out of business...
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

the foundation of human rights is that all men and women are equal in the eyes of society and the law.

No one said they ain't equal in the law, that's where freedom stops though. Freedom and human rights don't allow for an abridgement on freedom of association.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

the foundation of human rights is that all men and women are equal in the eyes of society and the law.

A foundation cannot be built on a fallacy. This just dooms the foundation to failure. We can't all be equal. What we can aspire to is to have our government treat us as equals when we come before the law.

We fought a civil war to extinguish one form of involuntary association, slavery, from our nation. Now it's time to finish the job and get government out of the business of forcing people into involuntary associations under the threat of law. Government must treat us all equally, but the duties one citizen owes to another citizen don't involve involuntary association. You should have the freedom to fill your life with friends, lovers and associates of your choice and not be compelled to form any associations involuntarily. That's what freedom tastes like.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

the foundation of human rights is that all men and women are equal in the eyes of society and the law.

That in no way goes about arguing against my point.

However, you're wrong. The foundation of all rights is body sovereignty.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Tourism is down because folks don't want to risk getting caught in the war that illegals are bringing over with them from Mexico. I don't think most folks are all that eager to visit any open drug trade route.

There's actually zero risk of that happening. Unless of course you want to hang out in the desert near the border where there is nothing to do or see. If people are avoiding Arizona because they are afraid of "getting caught in the war that illegals are bringing over" it simply means the people are sheltered and stupid.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

I actually hear Phoenix is a nice city. But, I haven't been there.

Shame to hear this passing. The fear of the changing tides, I suppose.

Phoenix isn't really a city....its more of a suburb. The "city" is only about 8 blocks....very small.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Ahh.

You know, back in the 60s and 70s Disneyland didn't allow hippies in. I stopped doing business with them. I don't hate Disneyland, nor did I ever press to see that overturned by law or court, I still won't go there or take my kids there.

If you stopped going to Disneyland in the 60s I'd venture to say the reason you won't take your kids to Disneyland now is because your kids are in their 30s. It's a wild guess but they can probably go on their own.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Do you have the same problem when a hot young woman is flaunting her sexuality?

I would imagine, in the vernacular of expressing one's religious beliefs, they too could be refused service.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

I think perhaps.....that Texas has a communicable disease, and has infected Arizona.
 
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