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Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Cephus said:
So atheist business owners could deny service to religious customers, so long as they assert that it's because of their atheism? Bet that would make a lot of religious idiots scream.
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I would not care one bit.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

clownboy said:
Not really. They'd have to deny business to all religious customers. The business wouldn't last long enough for a protest to form.
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Nope, why couldn't they just pick and choose which religious customers they deny business to? When it comes to discrimination, nobody gets away with it.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

X Factor said:
It's funny how often and vehemently I'm told atheism is NOT a religion unless, of course, it's more convenient to one's argument for it to be regarded as one.
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Funny how the religious are the ones declaring that atheism is a religion, isn't it? What's good for the goose is good for the gander, the religious do not deserve special treatment.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Phil_Osophy said:
I would totally agree that they have that right. Private business is private business.
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Until it actually happens, then you can bet the religious would be screaming bloody murder.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Lutherf said:
That's not at all what this bill is about.

The idea was to create a protection for businesses that might get ambushed by 'crusaders'. For example, I have a client who makes custom ceramics. She makes all kinds of stuff with angels and crosses and other symbols generally associated with Christianity. If someone comes into her shop and wants a pentagram and goat head on a platter and she chooses not to make it because she's a Christian and opposed to such imagery she should be allowed to refuse that particular job.
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So what's the problem?

If crusaders come into your establishment just kick them out. Why does a special law have to be made against homosexuals in particular, when ANYONE could "offend" you in your establishment?
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

opendebate said:
I don't get that. I always felt like as a parent to prepare your child on how to deal with the realities of the world they are surrounded by. It seems wiser to teach them how to handle it in a way that is healthiest for them rather then to protect them from it.
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Wasn't protecting her from anything. I explained why I wouldn't do business with Disneyland and she understood. We went to other amusement parks instead. She has no problem cutting a business off her list if they refuse to serve herself or her friends.

Once again, the court and law has no hand in this. Let your dollars do the talking. Tell your friends and family.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

clownboy said:
Wasn't protecting her from anything. I explained why I wouldn't do business with Disneyland and she understood. We went to other amusement parks instead. She has no problem cutting a business off her list if they refuse to serve herself or her friends.

Once again, the court and law has no hand in this. Let your dollars do the talking. Tell your friends and family.
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I agree with that. Consumers have much more power then they make use of.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Top Cat said:
Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill - CNN.com

Gotta love the backass republicans who voted for this.

Why anyone would live there is beyond me.
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I feel the same way about Colorado where courts have ruled that any business must cater to gays and lesbians even if they do not wish to do so.

This sort of law is a good and necessary reaction to such orwellian court decisions.

We need more of this in many ways.

Government needs to be abolished from interfering in private business.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

opendebate said:
Do you have the same problem when a hot young woman is flaunting her sexuality?
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If its his business it should be his choice.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Phil_Osophy said:
If its his business it should be his choice.
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I hope we have the higher aspiration of not encouraging discrimination. At the end the day it serves the most people.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Northern Light said:
So what's the problem?

If crusaders come into your establishment just kick them out. Why does a special law have to be made against homosexuals in particular, when ANYONE could "offend" you in your establishment?
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I posted a link to the text of the bill. Please point out to me where the term "homosexual" appears.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

opendebate said:
I hope we have the higher aspiration of not encouraging discrimination. At the end the day it serves the most people.
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Im not encouraging anything. Im simply advocating freedom.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

opendebate said:
I hope we have the higher aspiration of not encouraging discrimination. At the end the day it serves the most people.
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I think the reasonable answer there is for the folks who see discrimination go on in a business to say something to their friends and family about it and suspend business with that business. Of course at some point it would be good to let the business know why they're no longer getting dollars from you.

You'd be surprised at how quickly businesses respond to that.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Cephus said:
When it comes to discrimination, nobody gets away with it.
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Except women. They get away with it.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

clownboy said:
I think the reasonable answer there is for the folks who see discrimination go on in a business to say something to their friends and family about it and suspend business with that business. Of course at some point it would be good to let the business know why they're no longer getting dollars from you.

You'd be surprised at how quickly businesses respond to that.
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Good point. I say let the business owner exercise his free speech and say openly (in front of clientele) why he/she is rejecting this customer. If he is willing to take the hit then fine if not then he is a hypocrite and will suffer accordingly. His customers will determine the marketability of his position. I can add this, I only use Walgreens Pharm, because they openly they support gay rights.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Phil_Osophy said:
Im not encouraging anything. Im simply advocating freedom.
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That makes not sense. Freedom for a chosen few or freedom for everyone?
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

opendebate said:
What does that mean?
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It can mean many things.

For instance, male gynecologists are getting hammered in the marketplace by having women sexually discriminate against them and choosing female gynecologists instead. No one is forcing women to stop sexually discriminating. Can you imagine the uproar if laws were enforced which stopped women from sexually discriminating in this manner.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

The bible says that to be around a menstruating woman is a sin, so I expect any of these phony christian business owners that want to discriminate to make sure that they test all females to make sure they aren't on their periods.

Because it is in the bible, and if you don't, you are a sinner.

discrimination.jpg
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

beefheart said:
Because it is in the bible, and if you don't, you are a sinner.
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I'm not understanding why you're so hostile to Christians and why you are similarly hostile to human rights.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

RiverDad said:
I'm not understanding why you're so hostile to Christians and why you are similarly hostile to human rights.
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Just holding you to your beliefs. Are you not following them? Then you are a sinner, and not allowed in my establishment.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

beefheart said:
Just holding you to your beliefs. Are you not following them? Then you are a sinner, and not allowed in my establishment.
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I'm not a Christian so, no, you're not holding me to my beliefs. Secondly, if I was a Christian, I never appointed you to hold me to my beliefs. Do I come around to your house and insure that your sex life proceeds according to what I once overheard you say in a cafeteria line?

As for not being allowed in your establishment, I thought you were advocating that people be denied the freedom to make such choices, so how come you get to exercise your human rights while you advocate that other people be denied the freedom to exercise the same human rights?
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

RiverDad said:
I'm not a Christian so, no, you're not holding me to my beliefs. Secondly, if I was a Christian, I never appointed you to hold me to my beliefs. Do I come around to your house and insure that your sex life proceeds according to what I once overheard you say in a cafeteria line?

As for not being allowed in your establishment, I thought you were advocating that people be denied the freedom to make such choices, so how come you get to exercise your human rights while you advocate that other people be denied the freedom to exercise the same human rights?
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That is why this bill is baloney. Companies are not people, you can't discriminate on the basis of religion. If you can't see that, I feel bad for you.

This is America, not a theocracy.

BTW, I am an atheist, so I can be legally discriminated against by these "loving" christians.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

RiverDad said:
It can mean many things.

For instance, male gynecologists are getting hammered in the marketplace by having women sexually discriminate against them and choosing female gynecologists instead. No one is forcing women to stop sexually discriminating. Can you imagine the uproar if laws were enforced which stopped women from sexually discriminating in this manner.
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You are an interesting poster. I don't know if you really believe the position you take or you are just a law student.

Sometimes I think we draw the line on issues based on a social contract of sorts, a shared understanding. We all understand that if a woman doesn't want to be naked in front of a man she has every right to make that call. So if she prefers a female gyno she isn't discriminating she is respecting her right to decide who she is naked in front of. Your perspective however is based on the assumption that such a decision is rooted in a fundamental belief that males are inferior as gynecologists because they are male as opposed to being rooted in a womans decision to chose who she is naked in front of.
 
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