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Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

All the pro-LGBT cohersion doesn't come with out some backlash, and now you don't like it. Could have left sleeping dogs lie, but no.

Sure, could have let sleeping dogs lie and let the LGBTQ community continue on being legally relegated to second-class citizen status, just to avoid making the nutbars in Arizona mad.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

No he doesn't. I have the right to protest discriminatory practices but you do not have the right to discriminate.



Sane rational people don't murder or rape but there are laws against it just the same.
I think when you want to do something that is harmful to innocent people then there is reason enough to challenge your right to do it.

You know, it's funny...one of the biggest gripes liberals have against Republicans is their desire to legislate morality. Welcome to the hypocritical room.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

I saybit was a wadte of time. Lybia is not a us state


Public taxpayer funded schools? Yes they should be forced to accept everyone at every school.
you as an authoritarian nation have decided you can control the property of others.

Nobody has a right to anothers private property.


You may enjoy hearing that certain rights exist and are there, whether or not you recognize them. And you may also enjoy that some rights are not there, even if you believe that they are.

Actually, I think a right is a right if it is enforced. Otherwise it is a wish.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Well I don't. The civil rights act already established the fact that discrimination against protected classes is unlawful.

Yup, that is the topic. I like when people know what the topic is.

Don't get all self righteous on me as if your civil rights are being violated.

They are. :shrug:
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Well I don't. The civil rights act already established the fact that discrimination against protected classes is unlawful.

And before Lawrence vs. Texas was decided, sodomy was illegal. Were you out in public chastising homosexuals for their sodomous acts and urging that they be arrested for violating the law? Do tell.

Don't get all self righteous on me as if your civil rights are being violated.

We have a comedianne in our midst.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

So you think a business should have the right to turn away Muslims, or Blacks or people with red hair? If you want play games with the semantics then fine. Just like we forced all those bigoted people in the sixties to allow blacks to eat and drink wherever they chose and allow them to attend the same schools I will do all I can to force you to allow gay and lesbian people into your restaurant. We, as a nation, have already made the decision that discrimination is not okay and all you just have to deal with it.

Schools are not part of this, that's a bit of jumping the shark there. We as a nation discriminate all the time.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Actually, I think a right is a right if it is enforced. Otherwise it is a wish.

Slaves usually do think that.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

...............

How could it possibly not be both?
It's not both. You want the freedom to violate me as a woman and if you are arrested for it somehow your rights have been violated? Really?

That is because killing or raping someone actually DOES violate human rights. That whole right to life/body sovereignty thing.
This was in response the statement by Gipp that the law is not needed because common sense would prevail and people won't do it to an extent that causes harm to anyone. Your response makes no sense in that context.

How is refusing to serve someone harming them again? I thought it was just doing not doing business with them.
So you are opposed to the civil rights legislation of the 60s that forced business to treat blacks equally?
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

You've got a real knack for plucking things out of context and turning them into something completely irrelevant to the conversation. Congratulations.

It's not out of context at all. You're literally raping freedom.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

here is a question

how can you tell who is a illeagal alien?

The same way you tell if someone is driving without a driver's license.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

We as a nation discriminate all the time.

That's right. The progressive tax code is discriminatory by design and in implementation. Taxing people at different rates sure doesn't paint a picture of "equality" to me.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

I don't believe having a sexual orientation should qualify as a protected class. Nor do I think being smelly should.

That's your opinion because you never experienced it. I was listening to an interview with a gay veteran. She said her tires were slashed 11 times because she was gay, she was driving in her truck with her child and men screamed slanders at her. You think that's okay. You think we should condone that kind of behavior?
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

I don't believe having a sexual orientation should qualify as a protected class. Nor do I think being smelly should.
human should be the only protected class. And your rights should be protected. Someone elses property isnt a right

so how does one go finding illegal aliens? give them a special mark?
im not sure what you mean? You cant just "go find them"

Actually, I think a right is a right if it is enforced. Otherwise it is a wish.
Tell that to george washington.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

It's not both. You want the freedom to violate me as a woman and if you are arrested for it somehow your rights have been violated? Really?

I want what? How am I supporting violating you as a woman?? WTF?

This was in response the statement by Gipp that the law is not needed because common sense would prevail and people won't do it to an extent that causes harm to anyone. Your response makes no sense in that context.

I was responding to you comparing rape and murder to this.

So you are opposed to the civil rights legislation of the 60s that forced business to treat blacks equally?

Yes.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Slaves usually do think that.

Are you calling slaves stupid? That's not very nice.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

If a gay man enters a restaurant how can you tell if he is Gay unless he is flaunting his sexuality.

Would you consider two gay men or women holding hands to be "flaunting their sexuality"?
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Would you consider two gay men or women holding hands to be "flaunting their sexuality"?

Followup question: how come it's not "flaunting" when heterosexuals do it?
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

That's your opinion because you never experienced it. I was listening to an interview with a gay veteran. She said her tires were slashed 11 times because she was gay, she was driving in her truck with her child and men screamed slanders at her. You think that's okay. You think we should condone that kind of behavior?

Of course not, and a bit offensive. All of what you mention are crimes that have nothing to do with equal rights as an individual (unless the police didn't respond because she was gay). Her veteran status has nothing to do with it. Not even analogous to this topic.

And you assume [falsely] that I've never experienced discrimination.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

That's your opinion because you never experienced it. I was listening to an interview with a gay veteran. She said her tires were slashed 11 times because she was gay, she was driving in her truck with her child and men screamed slanders at her. You think that's okay. You think we should condone that kind of behavior?

Slashing someones tires is not ok. That is a crime and a violation of property rights. However, someone refusing to sell her a hamburger would not be violating her rights. Maybe thats an asshole thing to do, but certainly not a violation of her rights. I guarantee someone else will want her money and sell her a hamburger
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

That's your opinion because you never experienced it. I was listening to an interview with a gay veteran. She said her tires were slashed 11 times because she was gay, she was driving in her truck with her child and men screamed slanders at her. You think that's okay. You think we should condone that kind of behavior?

Was it illegal for liberals to congregate at airports and demonize the soldiers returning from Vietnam?

You seem to be operating under some notion that you have the right to oppress people in order to make them behave to your standard of decorum. Let me break this news to you as gently as I can - you're wrong.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Followup question: how come it's not "flaunting" when heterosexuals do it?

There are businesses that frown upon any PDA. So?
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

That's your opinion because you never experienced it. I was listening to an interview with a gay veteran. She said her tires were slashed 11 times because she was gay, she was driving in her truck with her child and men screamed slanders at her. You think that's okay. You think we should condone that kind of behavior?

She could just have easily been subjected to that if she was in 'nam.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Racial, religious etc. discrimination harms society and vulnerable people. In small towns, isolated and rural areas, just one or two discriminatory businesses could keep a significant portion of the population from getting a job, shopping, getting a place to live etc. without leaving town. Even in a more urban environment, discrimination can force poor people to unnecessary waste time and money searching for a business that will accept their money in exchange for goods or services. Businesses have the ability to oppress people in their daily lives as much or more than government, especially in these days of a handful of mega-corporations, malls and big box retail dominating retail and services. Addressing government discrimination while allowing business discrimination requires tolerating discrimination and the hardship and oppression it will impose on unpopular minorities and society as a whole.

The business owner who doesn't like serving a customer because of their race, religion, gender etc is harmed much less when forced to serve that person than the would-be customer who has to find another place that will serve him/her is harmed. When a person can't get a job or a home because of race, religion, gender etc discrimination they suffer far more than the employer or landlord will suffer from being forced to treat that person as an equal.

There is widespread consensus that there is no right to not be offended. That is the only so-called "right" infringed upon when a business is "forced" to serve someone with the wrong skin color or accent. I believe most people would agree that the right to be treated as an equal human being who is judged by his/her behavior, not by an irrational prejudice, is more important than the "right" to not be offended. The "forced to work like a serf" argument is nonsense. No one is required by anti-discrimination laws to provide a good or service that they are not already willingly providing to everyone else (except the person with the "wrong' skin color) who uses that business.

Anti-discrimination laws secure individual's right to be treated as an equal human being who is judged by his/her behavior, not by an irrational prejudice. They prevent the harm from business discrimination against potential employees, employees and customers, which significantly outweighs the harm from being "forced" to tolerate undesirable races, religions etc in one's business.

In addition, society as a whole is harmed by the impact of discrimination based on prejudice and hate. Discrimination harms society by maintaining an impoverished underclass living with all the ill effects of poverty and oppression, effects which can impact everyone in the form of blight, large numbers of beggars, disease, crime, violence, rebellion and revenge.

Past experiences and the experiences of other places show us what happens when discrimination is allowed. Jim Crow laws existed during my lifetime and the negative effects from them still impacts life today. I don't believe that such discrimination will be as rare as claimed. These days it is as likely to be directed at Muslims and gays as blacks, but the tendency to ignorantly, irrationally and/or arbitrarily discriminate has not been sufficiently eliminated yet. For evidence, just look at all the racism and bigotry expressed on this forum and other public fora.
 
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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

She could just have easily been subjected to that if she was in 'nam.

Jesus Gip what's your fricken point?!
 
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