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Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill[W:451:959]

Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

'Property rights' refers to humans having the right to own property and do with it as they please.

Well they can be structured like that, but usually property rights define how property is allowed to be used ie how income from it is funneled.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

I dont think anyone here knows what you think this topic is about.

so you are not ready to admit i never said what you falsely claimed? got it
let me know when you are
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

there was once a time that human beings were considered property.

That is something that should never happen again.

I agree. Whats your point?
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

People discriminate against others every day all day everywhere. We avoid people when we don't like how they smell, look, their "vibe", how they're dressed - you name it. Businesses will generally put all that aside to make sales. Those that don't, typically don't last that long. The problem takes care of itself, no government intervention necessary. In fact government intervention makes things worse. Once the government interferes, then people artificially support a business they might not ordinarily frequent just to combat the interference.

Then was the civil rights act a waste of time or are gays and lesbians just not as deserving?
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

People were slaves: property. People were being denied their rights because they were considered property.

Okay, well we both agree that other people cant and shouldnt be considered property.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

The difference between us - or at least one of them, I'm glad there are many - is that you'd sell your soul for property rights. I tend to believe more in human rights.

Buying and selling of property is not a human right. Why don't you go tell people that jobs are a human right, or free health care is a human right. We could use another laugh at your expense.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Then was the civil rights act a waste of time or are gays and lesbians just not as deserving?

Was the Libya "war" a waste of time? We dismantled Qaddafi's regime, his mass slaughters, his torture room, his terrorism. We also unleashed chaos onto that society.

The point is that there are some good aspects of the Civil Rights Act and some oppressive aspects. We can pick and choose.

You're sounding like the Army officer in Vietnam - "We had to destroy the village in order to save it."
 
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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

I own the property in question and thus control access and use of that property.
I have ownership of my own labor and service and thus I have a right towards it, and with that right, the right to decide who I will provide it to.

So what gives you the right to force someone into service for you, force your way onto someones property, force them to permit you to partake in their property and to force someone into commerce for your behest? Any answers?

So you think a business should have the right to turn away Muslims, or Blacks or people with red hair? If you want play games with the semantics then fine. Just like we forced all those bigoted people in the sixties to allow blacks to eat and drink wherever they chose and allow them to attend the same schools I will do all I can to force you to allow gay and lesbian people into your restaurant. We, as a nation, have already made the decision that discrimination is not okay and all you just have to deal with it.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Buying and selling of property is not a human right. Why don't you go tell people that jobs are a human right, or free health care is a human right. We could use another laugh at your expense.

You might enjoy reading the EU Charter of Human Rights.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

So you think a business should have the right to turn away Muslims, or Blacks or people with red hair?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Oh, and it's not should, it's does.

If you want play games with the semantics then fine. Just like we forced all those bigoted people in the sixties to allow blacks to eat and drink wherever they chose and allow them to attend the same schools I will do all I can to force you to allow gay and lesbian people into your restaurant. We, as a nation, have already made the decision that discrimination is not okay and all you just have to deal with it.

I'm not about to just deal with human right violations. :shrug: I'm stubborn like that.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

and many accusations of being a illegal alien end up with a latino being the accused.

Considering the location and the history why is that even a significant factor in your mind?

There's an old joke that displays the error in your thought process.

Fellow leaves the bar after last call and he sees a young woman on her knees under a street light searching around. Being a gentleman he asks her if she needs help. She replies that she has dropped her car keys and is looking for them. He, being the helpful soul, gets down to help her search. After a fruitless hour of search he declares, "I'm afraid I've not been much help, I haven't spotted a thing. Are you sure this is where you dropped your keys?" to which she replies, "Oh no, I dropped them somewhere over there, there's just more light over here".
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Considering the location and the history why is that even a significant factor in your mind?

There's an old joke that displays the error in your thought process.

Fellow leaves the bar after last call and he sees a young woman on her knees under a street light searching around. Being a gentleman he asks her if she needs help. She replies that she has dropped her car keys and is looking for them. He, being the helpful soul, gets down to help her search. After a fruitless hour of search he declares, "I'm afraid I've not been much help, I haven't spotted a thing. Are you sure this is where you dropped your keys?" to which she replies, "Oh no, I dropped them somewhere over there, there's just more light over here".

here is a question

how can you tell who is a illeagal alien?
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

We, as a nation, have already made the decision that discrimination is not okay and all you just have to deal with it.

So what is your plan to force women who sexually discriminate against male gynecologists in favor of female gynecologists to stop discriminating and to start being examined by male physicians?
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

You might enjoy reading the EU Charter of Human Rights.

Socialists are not very good with rights. I don't much enjoy their drivel. :D
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

...........

The fact that he has it.
No he doesn't. I have the right to protest discriminatory practices but you do not have the right to discriminate.


This isn't about what sane and rational people do. If that was the case, why don't we ban smoking in all its forms? There's no sane or rational reason to smoke.
People should not be allowed to smoke. Ever. For any reason.
You support that?
Sane rational people don't murder or rape but there are laws against it just the same.
I think when you want to do something that is harmful to innocent people then there is reason enough to challenge your right to do it.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Was the Libya "war" a waste of time? We dismantled Qaddafi's regime, his mass slaughters, his torture room, his terrorism. We also unleashed chaos onto that society.

The point is that there are some good aspects of the Civil Rights Act and some oppressive aspects. We can pick and choose.
I saybit was a wadte of time. Lybia is not a us state
So you think a business should have the right to turn away Muslims, or Blacks or people with red hair? If you want play games with the semantics then fine. Just like we forced all those bigoted people in the sixties to allow blacks to eat and drink wherever they chose and allow them to attend the same schools I will do all I can to force you to allow gay and lesbian people into your restaurant. We, as a nation, have already made the decision that discrimination is not okay and all you just have to deal with it.

Public taxpayer funded schools? Yes they should be forced to accept everyone at every school.
you as an authoritarian nation have decided you can control the property of others.

Nobody has a right to anothers private property.

You might enjoy reading the EU Charter of Human Rights.
You may enjoy hearing that certain rights exist and are there, whether or not you recognize them. And you may also enjoy that some rights are not there, even if you believe that they are.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Yes. Yes. Yes. Oh, and it's not should, it's does.
I'm not about to just deal with human right violations. :shrug: I'm stubborn like that.

Well I don't. The civil rights act already established the fact that discrimination against protected classes is unlawful.

Don't get all self righteous on me as if your civil rights are being violated.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

If a guy said this, we'd all be abhorred.

You've got a real knack for plucking things out of context and turning them into something completely irrelevant to the conversation. Congratulations.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

No he doesn't. I have the right to protest discriminatory practices but you do not have the right to discriminate.

How could it possibly not be both?

Sane rational people don't murder or rape but there are laws against it just the same.

That is because killing or raping someone actually DOES violate human rights. That whole right to life/body sovereignty thing.

I think when you want to do something that is harmful to innocent people then there is reason enough to challenge your right to do it.

How is refusing to serve someone harming them again? I thought it was just doing not doing business with them.
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

No he doesn't. I have the right to protest discriminatory practices but you do not have the right to discriminate.



Sane rational people don't murder or rape but there are laws against it just the same.
I think when you want to do something that is harmful to innocent people then there is reason enough to challenge your right to do it.

Refusing to sell someone a cheeseburger isnt harmful to that person...
 
Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Then was the civil rights act a waste of time or are gays and lesbians just not as deserving?

I don't believe having a sexual orientation should qualify as a protected class. Nor do I think being smelly should.
 
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