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Food prices soar as incomes stand still

Ikari said:
Reminds me of the ol' GW Bush there. heheh



Being a millionaire today means less than being on in the 2000's, or the 90's, or the 80's. My current salary in 1950 would make me a rich rich man. So we have to be able to normalize the data to something, because just saying there are more millionaires now doesn't really mean all that much. The true metric is wealth aggregation and disparity.
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Being "a millionaire" may mean the person owns a 700 square foot 1 bedroom condo.
 
For a person to claim the care about the poor is worthless and gratuitous words. Government policies - federal state and local - destroyed the USA's industrial and manufacturing base in irreversible and worsening ways. Politics has evolved to simply buying votes by promising free money. There are no jobs for the poor to have - and the dwindling number of those who work and only contribute in ratio to those who only consume assure the continued decline of the United States.

As it does, the cries for ever more socialistic policies, cursing industry and business, and economic collapse will grow as with the debt of increasingly declining monetary values. There isn't much of the USA to sell off to even try to pay the interests. Promises of free money will be dealt with by increasing inflation.

There is no point to claiming concerns for the poor other than gratuitous words of no value.

Most of those who are "super wealthy" will never allow their wealth to be seized and there are dozens of countries and places more than eager receive and protect their wealth and, if they wish, to welcome them to their country. If I remember correctly, the current going rate for permanent visa in the tax free Bahamas is around 1 million. Citizenship is much higher. But it is close to the USA. Other countries are much cheaper.

To this, the socialists - ie new Democratic Party - will say "good riddance!" and demand they never be allowed back to the USA to assure that not one of their dollars returns here.

While cursing companies that offshore their operations, every possible thing is done to expand doing so as placating is a necessity for our dollars to still be honors and our endlessly growing debt to be loaned against in exchange for nearly everything Americans have and buy - all things that used to be manufactured here by evil American industry large and small.

There is no value in expressing concern for "the poor" because that concern has no value, other than to socialists who claim the solution is for the government to go take money from other people and from those businesses unable to escape due to the nature of their business. Besides, the Democratic Party is owned by the superrich as much as are Republicans. The socialist's target is the merchant class, who are not wealthy enough to buy government.

I care about my family, that is where my concerns are. There is nothing I can do for a 15 year old drop out, a 30 year old alcoholic, or a 75 year old who didn't save a dollar. Since I can change nothing, any words of concern I would express are worthless. However, since I am financially secure I also have no reason to find others to rage at or claim owe me something or cry about how unfair life or government or those people or companies are.
 
jmotivator said:
I'm only throwing stones at those who are here to defend themselves.
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Like the people you accuse of "sponging". They're all here! :roll:

The same applies regardless of the person's income, be they recipient of corporate welfare, individual welfare, or farmers paid to not plant crops. I am faulting you for your incessant reliance on class warfare, my sponge comments are not. The poor who fall into the Democrats trap are making entirely rational decisions based on Democrats phony promises.
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Where did you get the idea that people who stop working are receiving any sort of public assistance? You're making stuff up to attack people (like the way you invented the claim that I have judged wealthy people) who are not here.


I never said I wasn't judging anyone, I am simply not judging anyone based on income.
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Sure you were but by now, I don't expect you to be honest about it. You still haven't admitted that you were making stuff up when you claimed that I was judging the wealthy. Don't make the mistake of thinking I have forgotten that you *still* have yet to post a quote of mine where I did that.
 
Carjosse said:
No, the the government is lying to us about inflation does.
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....the government lies about a bunch of ****. Why would this be any different?
 
joko104 said:
Every part of the world in every economic system has "super wealthy."

Be-good regulatory policies shut down virtually every major US industry. Any rational business person would offshore every aspect of their business they possibly can.

Its not like that isn't Obama's policy. The GM loans had a specific usage. They financed new GM factories in China. As the last of industry and capital flees from the USA, those destroying this country rage it isn't happening fast enough.
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I didn't say it doesn't. But in systems built upon economic mobility and free market principles, the wealth gaps are a bit less and the specific families and individuals who possess that wealth are more fluid.
 
Ikari said:
....the government lies about a bunch of ****. Why would this be any different?
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Politicians lie, government statisticians don't and have no need to.
 
Carjosse said:
Politicians lie, government statisticians don't and have no need to.
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Of course they do. Numbers are always skewed or pulled in one direction or another. Government statisticians are government, and government lies about as much as it can to excuse it's own growth and power. Even things such as DUI stats are inflated to make things look worse than they are to excuse more government intervention. Nothing filtered through the glasses of government comes out impartial.
 
Ikari said:
Of course they do. Numbers are always skewed or pulled in one direction or another.
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But there's a huge difference between calculating and interpreting. Statistical agency employees gain no benefit from lying, but politicians have interest in creative interpretations.
Government statisticians are government, and government lies about as much as it can to excuse it's own growth and power.
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The people calculating the numbers do not gain from growth and gain no power. Now, studies done by policy makers may well be skewed, but regular econ statistics are done by professionals with no agenda except accuracy. I used to be one of them. There was never ever any attempt by any of us to make the numbers come out a certain way, and even if we wanted to, it would have been practically impossible.
 
pinqy said:
But there's a huge difference between calculating and interpreting. Statistical agency employees gain no benefit from lying, but politicians have interest in creative interpretations.
The people calculating the numbers do not gain from growth and gain no power. Now, studies done by policy makers may well be skewed, but regular econ statistics are done by professionals with no agenda except accuracy. I used to be one of them. There was never ever any attempt by any of us to make the numbers come out a certain way, and even if we wanted to, it would have been practically impossible.
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Hi pinqy....If this is truly the case, then why is the CBO for instance, restrained from using anything outside the parameters that they are given by the various legislators to make their numbers?

We have seen the mess in the IRS by career individuals that are loyal to an ideology, and what they can do, why not in the other various bureaucracies?
 
j-mac said:
Hi pinqy....If this is truly the case, then why is the CBO for instance, restrained from using anything outside the parameters that they are given by the various legislators to make their numbers? We have seen the mess in the IRS by career individuals that are loyal to an ideology, and what they can do, why not in the other various bureaucracies?
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Having the IRS become politicized was perhaps the most egregious thing that happened to the USA in its history. Wars and scandals can eventually be forgotten and forgiven but having the most important domestic arm of the government turn against politically selected groups, without serious changes made or having a serious inquiry, is what will destroy the divided house the US has become. The bureaucracies are where the powers really lie.
 
Ikari said:
Free market enables the highest amount of economic mobility and wealth distribution. It's the ideal to strive towards. If we could really restore free market.capitalism, we will have gone a long way in addressing some of our major problems.
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They call it the gilded age for a reason.
 
pinqy said:
But there's a huge difference between calculating and interpreting. Statistical agency employees gain no benefit from lying, but politicians have interest in creative interpretations.
The people calculating the numbers do not gain from growth and gain no power. Now, studies done by policy makers may well be skewed, but regular econ statistics are done by professionals with no agenda except accuracy. I used to be one of them. There was never ever any attempt by any of us to make the numbers come out a certain way, and even if we wanted to, it would have been practically impossible.
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They get to keep their jobs and/or potentially advance.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
His point was that a MW increase would have little food price impact, not that transportation (or any other) costs are not also important.
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It would have an extremely dramatic increase in food prices, if you for example double minimum wage you may as well double the cost of the service that worker is doing.

It's extremely simple math.....

Communists just don't get it because they're under some delusion that every business has a 99% profit margin.
 
Mr.Nick said:
It would have an extremely dramatic increase in food prices, if you for example double minimum wage you may as well double the cost of the service that worker is doing.

It's extremely simple math.....

Communists just don't get it because they're under some delusion that every business has a 99% profit margin.
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So 100% of the cost of a Big Mac is due to the labour costs of the staff at the Macdonald's the burger is made at?

The transportation, the building, the food, the electricity etc have zero cost when it comes to the price of a big mac, just the labor of the 16 year olds making the burger and at the till
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
So 100% of the cost of a Big Mac is due to the labour costs of the staff at the Macdonald's the burger is made at?

The transportation, the building, the food, the electricity etc have zero cost when it comes to the price of a big mac, just the labor of the 16 year olds making the burger and at the till
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On the bright side, there will be more technical innovation and automation to do the work of these young people and the 'you want fries with that?' jokes will end.
 
Grant said:
On the bright side, there will be more technical innovation and automation to do the work of these young people and the 'you want fries with that?' jokes will end.
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And without the cost of labor the big mac will be free, according to Mr Nick. A huge bright side
 
Grant said:
I don't see where he said that. Do you have the quote?
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It would have an extremely dramatic increase in food prices, if you for example double minimum wage you may as well double the cost of the service that worker is doing.
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Meaning if min wage was doubled then the cost would double. Inversely, if min wage was reduced by half the cost would reduce by half.

Taken to extreme, if you remove the labour cost of the min wage worker, the cost of the product becomes zero.

Or more to the point, the idea that increasing the min wage by double would increase the cost of the goods of services by nearly double is idiotic. It ignores the vast number of other costs involved in the production of said good or service. Only services at the most basic level would come anywhere close to what he said (neighborhood kid shoveling snow for instance). A fast food restaurant has a huge number of other costs associated with making and selling any product. The restaurant alone will cost over 1 million to build, food costs, heating costs, electricity costs, transportation costs, waste etc. Labour is definitely a significant cost, perhaps 30 -40 % in most cases, which means an increase of 20% in Wages would lead to an increase of the COG of 6-8%. Not the nightmare scenario that most seem to make it out to be

Heck the people working there (who are not students living with their parents) would be able to eat there
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
So 100% of the cost of a Big Mac is due to the labour costs of the staff at the Macdonald's the burger is made at?

The transportation, the building, the food, the electricity etc have zero cost when it comes to the price of a big mac, just the labor of the 16 year olds making the burger and at the till
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No, all those factors (overhead etc) project into the cost of a Big Mac... However doubling an employees salary will dramatically increase the costs of goods.

I'll tell you a little secret tho - McDonalds makes almost nothing on their food - most of their profit comes from fries and soft drinks.

15+ years ago my mom was actually a corporate accountant for McDonalds, and at the time I had interest in accounting so me and my mother had a lot of good conversations about the corporation.

Also, you have to remember McDonalds is a franchisee restaurant and some do better than others.

However yes, the cost of overhead will be reflected in the cost of product.

Raising the minimum wage to 10.10 an hour will kill numerous businesses - that, or places of business that primarily hire minimum wage workers will drastically cut back just to keep their businesses afloat.

Another aspect such a nonsense 10.10 hour minimum wage will do is increase the amount of "illegal labor."

Obama obviously has no idea how a business is run or even how our economy works.... He just panders to his voting base - as if his voting base have any idea how a business or the economy works.

The only fair way to assess minimum wage is through studying regional economics and the standard of living in those regions - but Obama is not that smart.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Meaning if min wage was doubled then the cost would double. Inversely, if min wage was reduced by half the cost would reduce by half.

Taken to extreme, if you remove the labour cost of the min wage worker, the cost of the product becomes zero.

Or more to the point, the idea that increasing the min wage by double would increase the cost of the goods of services by nearly double is idiotic. It ignores the vast number of other costs involved in the production of said good or service. Only services at the most basic level would come anywhere close to what he said (neighborhood kid shoveling snow for instance). A fast food restaurant has a huge number of other costs associated with making and selling any product. The restaurant alone will cost over 1 million to build, food costs, heating costs, electricity costs, transportation costs, waste etc. Labour is definitely a significant cost, perhaps 30 -40 % in most cases, which means an increase of 20% in Wages would lead to an increase of the COG of 6-8%. Not the nightmare scenario that most seem to make it out to be

Heck the people working there (who are not students living with their parents) would be able to eat there
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I don't know about double but the cost of product or service would certainly go up anywhere from 30-75% depending on a companies payroll and general overhead.

Restaurants are probably going to get hit the hardest, and if they close their doors MILLIONS will lose their jobs from transportation jobs, to bakery jobs, paper good jobs, printing jobs - to just about anything you can really think of that is associated with these fast food chains. Next time you're in one take a look around and realize that the place was built by numerous industries. From the guys who manufacture the trash cans, toilets, tables, chairs, coke machines, cups, counter tops, the tile on the floor - the cost of labor to construct a McDonalds, the guys who make the signs.....

Those guys lose their jobs too if there is no demand for their products - and they're not even McDonalds employees.

It's really nothing more than one gigantic domino effect.
 
Mr.Nick said:
It would have an extremely dramatic increase in food prices, if you for example double minimum wage you may as well double the cost of the service that worker is doing.

It's extremely simple math.....

Communists just don't get it because they're under some delusion that every business has a 99% profit margin.
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Since less than 3% of all US workers now make the MW and the proposed increase is about 35% that would mean, at most, a tiny increase in prices of goods/services. The real harm, in large increases in the MW, is to the MW worker that will then not keep/get a job.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Meaning if min wage was doubled then the cost would double. Inversely, if min wage was reduced by half the cost would reduce by half.

Taken to extreme, if you remove the labour cost of the min wage worker, the cost of the product becomes zero.

Or more to the point, the idea that increasing the min wage by double would increase the cost of the goods of services by nearly double is idiotic. It ignores the vast number of other costs involved in the production of said good or service. Only services at the most basic level would come anywhere close to what he said (neighborhood kid shoveling snow for instance). A fast food restaurant has a huge number of other costs associated with making and selling any product. The restaurant alone will cost over 1 million to build, food costs, heating costs, electricity costs, transportation costs, waste etc. Labour is definitely a significant cost, perhaps 30 -40 % in most cases, which means an increase of 20% in Wages would lead to an increase of the COG of 6-8%. Not the nightmare scenario that most seem to make it out to be

Heck the people working there (who are not students living with their parents) would be able to eat there
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That's on top of the already 10%+ recent increases in food costs*, so it's not insignificant.

*-I'm speaking groceries, not McD's specifically, but the two are related.
 
radcen said:
That's on top of the already 10%+ recent increases in food costs*, so it's not insignificant.

*-I'm speaking groceries, not McD's specifically, but the two are related.
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Grocery stores outside of Walmart, meaning Safeway, and other like it tend to pay quite a bit more then min wage or at least used to 12 years ago. Their pay was along the lines of Home Depot. A 20% increase in min wage would push their wages up by probably an average of 10%, meaning a COG increase of 3%.

For Walmart, as most mention it pays better then min wage, already not sure by how much and given how well it tends to control costs, may not increase wages propotionally. So its direct costs might remain flat.
 
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