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Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial[W:336]

Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

reinoe said:
Because it can't be stressed enough...

The jury could have convicted him with M2 even though Dunn was charged with M1. They chose not to because it's Florida and Floridians can't do anything right.
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they could have got him on manslaughter. at least some of the jurors thought he was guilty how many they couldn't convince who knows.
hence the retrial.
 
Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

AGENT J said:
well just to be accurate he wasnt getting gas, he stopped for wine

but you are right theres no facts or corroborated evidence that support his actions, this is way he will be in prison for a long time and rightfully so.

He acted crazy and unreasonable and now that asshole thug will be put in jail.
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Actually, I had to wonder if part of the reason he didn't come forth immediately was intoxication.

If the man was in fear for his life enough to open fire. He would have called the police IMMEDIATLY when he was at a safe distance. That is what a responsible gun-owner would do.

Gotta wonder why he didn't.
 
Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

year2late said:
If the man was in fear for his life enough to open fire. He would have called the police IMMEDIATLY when he was at a safe distance. That is what a responsible gun-owner would do.
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No. That is what you believe one does.
He explained his actions. There is nothing wrong in the reason he gave.
 
Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

Excon said:
No. That is what you believe one does.
He explained his actions. There is nothing wrong in the reason he gave.
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Of course there is everything wrong with what he did.
 
Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

Excon said:
Oy vey.
His life was verbally threatened, that threat was then coupled with action making the threat to appear to be actual, the barrel on the window, then with his stating that it was "going down now" as he got out to carry through with the threat.
That, to anybody, would appear to be a real threat.
Under such circumstance the only one being an asshole and at fault for what happened, was Davis, not Dunn.

Now, you do not have to believe that happened.
But the prosecutor does have to prove it didn't. And she failed at doing so.
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I have no idea what your post has to do with mine. As to what was apparently proved and what wasn't, he's going to jail for at least sixty years for his actions that evening. The fact that the jury couldn't agree on one count doesn't change that.
 
Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

year2late said:
Of course there is everything wrong with what he did.
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Not in the reason we are discussing.
And then not in defending himself either.
 
Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

MaggieD said:
I have no idea what your post has to do with mine. As to what was apparently proved and what wasn't, he's going to jail for at least sixty years for his actions that evening. The fact that the jury couldn't agree on one count doesn't change that.
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Then you are not attempting to understand the connection.
He was threatened with imminent harm to his life, and yet, here you were saying he was an asshole for addressing it.
And you want to say you do not understand what I said has to do with what you said?
Okie dokie! :doh

And secondly, you have no idea how long he will be going away for (you are over looking good time and/or disciplinary credits), nor do you know if the convictions will even stand.
 
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Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

Del Zeppnile said:
Because I think Florida juries are either being confused by the jury instructions, or are just a bit dumb IMHO.
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I think it's the jury instructions. Wish we could see them. It shouldn't be confusing. Juries shouldn't have to parse the law. I'd bet dollars to donuts that's where the problem lies.
 
Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

MaggieD said:
I think it's the jury instructions. Wish we could see them. It shouldn't be confusing. Juries shouldn't have to parse the law. I'd bet dollars to donuts that's where the problem lies.
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Those instructions would be the reason he was wrongly convicted.
 
Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

Excon said:
Those instructions would be the reason he was wrongly convicted.
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No. They're the reason they couldn't agree on whether he was guilty of killing anyone.
 
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Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

There seems to be a common thread of overcharging Between this and the Zimmerman case.
Angela Corey is the common thread.
 
Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

MaggieD said:
No. They're the reason they couldn't agree on whether he was guilty of killing anyone.
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Not exactly.
He shot in self defense, so shouldn't have been convicted of anything.
 
Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

Excon said:
Not in the reason we are discussing.
And then not in defending himself either.
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Tell me why you think his explanation of why he did not report the incident in a timely manner is acceptable and should have changed the outcome in this case.

Frankly, if you are curious about why folks are "anti gun"...it is not really so much about responsible gun ownership....it is the fact that someone like this is supported even after he takes the most circuitous route to make a series of wrong and deadly decisions.
 
Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

year2late said:
Tell me why you think his explanation of why he did not report the incident in a timely manner is acceptable and should have changed the outcome in this case.
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Is that what I said?

year2late said:
Tell me why you think his explanation of why he did not report the incident in a timely manner is acceptable ...
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Show me where it is required and than we can argue over it's acceptability.


year2late said:
... of wrong and deadly decisions.
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Acting in self defense is not wrong.
 
Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

AGENT J said:
doesnt matter he is going to prison for a long time and the next inches of shotgun that only he sees will be going in his tailpipe! LMAO
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You sound jealous.
 
Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

MaggieD said:
Yeah, I know, you're right.

I've asked attorneys why it's this way, and they say, "It's our job....to do everything we POSSIBLY can to defend our client. I actually don't agree with this. To me, an attorneys job ought to be to help him obtain the best justice he can obtain. And if he's guilty? That probably means taking a deal.
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My understanding was that you shouldn't admit guilt to your attorney. If you did, they would be required to advise you to plead guilty. They would be required to tell the judge if you were lying and they knew about it. In other words, they can't knowingly help you lie to the court.

Of course, I am sure they would say "why do you think are guilty?" and it would go on from there.

Anyway, I don't agree that an attorney ought to feel compelled to do everything "they possibly can". I think that it should be unethical to attempt to deceive, and an attorney who purposely deceives or helps their client deceive should be disbarred.
 
Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

Excon said:
Not exactly.
He shot in self defense, so shouldn't have been convicted of anything.
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The jury found that he didn't. You can harp the same old song as long as you'd like, Excon. You are in a distinct minority with them. I, for one, am grateful for that. The jury found that he was not acting in self-defense. From the bare-bones facts we have to work with, I agree with that finding. Your liberal views on what's self-defense and what's isn't don't even match those of the most liberal state of Florida. (Liberal not having political meaning here.)
 
Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

year2late said:
Frankly, if you are curious about why folks are "anti gun"...it is not really so much about responsible gun ownership....it is the fact that someone like this is supported even after he takes the most circuitous route to make a series of wrong and deadly decisions.
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Agreed.
 
Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

Dezaad said:
My understanding was that you shouldn't admit guilt to your attorney. If you did, they would be required to advise you to plead guilty. They would be required to tell the judge if you were lying and they knew about it. In other words, they can't knowingly help you lie to the court.

Of course, I am sure they would say "why do you think are guilty?" and it would go on from there.

Anyway, I don't agree that an attorney ought to feel compelled to do everything "they possibly can". I think that it should be unethical to attempt to deceive, and an attorney who purposely deceives or helps their client deceive should be disbarred.
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Think you're mostly right here. I also think that's why many defendants don't take the stand. They've told their attorney "I did it" and the attorney can't let him testify because he knows he's lying. Attorneys can't do that. (That doesn't apply in this case though.)

Oh, wait. No, the attorney is not required to tell the court someone confessed to them. I'd say that's what attorney/client privilege is all about. It'd be really interesting to know the ins and outs of ACP, though. Like, if a murderer tells his attorney where he stashed the murder weapon or where the bodies are buried is it legal for the attorney not to tell the cops? Hmmm.....
 
Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

AGENT J said:
Well I do agree going for M1 seemed wrong but they did explain how it applies under law a couple times, I admit i didnt really understand the reasoning.

M2 or manslaughter should have been EXTREMELY easy for they jury I have no clue why they didnt just charge him with the lesser unanimously.

I cant see any member not thinking he wasnt guilty of murder 2 or manslughter



Yes leaving was huge theres no way to justify

leaving and going to your hotel.
Ordering food.
Taking out the dog.
watching a movie.
Going to sleep.
Waking up and seeing on the news you killed a kid.
Packing
Drive 2.5 hours home and never call the police


then theres ZERO corroborative evidence of a gun or death threats or the victim even getting out of the car

then there the actual trail where he was proven to be a liar by his own girlfriend

cant believe they were hung on a murder charge
im still happy he is going to rot in prison for life though, its a victory for justice
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I think Dunn is a racist killer who in a half drunk state thought he was making the world a better place by shooting up a car full of "black thugs" in his view after an incident where he was disrespected. However, its possible if the tripod in the SUV was brandished, it might have looked like a gun barrel to someone who had been drinking hard liquor all afternoon. Alternatively, as an avid gun enthusiast if the tripod was brandished, he might have known it wasn't a gun and it was just a kid trying to look tough but offered just the excuse he needed to in his mind legally kill some "thugs" in his view.
 
Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

This is the first I have heard of this case. From what I read Dunn is fortunate to get off this easy if this verdict stands. It is one thing to carry a firearm and use it in self-defense, it's another thing to shoot into a car full of people then leave the scene.

I am a CCL holder in the state of Texas. If I had been confronted with this situation, I would have attempted to leave before any shooting or fighting started.

Something else, a person carrying a firearm is not supposed to have any alcohol in their system at all, and you certainly aren't supposed to leave the scene of the incident.

On the surface this verdict seems to be a miscarriage of justice.
 
Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

MaggieD said:
The jury found that he didn't. You can harp the same old song as long as you'd like, Excon. You are in a distinct minority with them. I, for one, am grateful for that. The jury found that he was not acting in self-defense. From the bare-bones facts we have to work with, I agree with that finding. Your liberal views on what's self-defense and what's isn't don't even match those of the most liberal state of Florida. (Liberal not having political meaning here.)
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Liberal views? Utter nonsense. There is nothing liberal about it.
Harp? No MaggieD, I pointed out where your reasoning was wrong. Big difference.


If you fail to understand that a person does not have to wait until fired upon in order to use self defense, that is not my problem.

There in no reliable evidence to suggest he is lying about what he saw. None.
And while there is no direct evidence, there is circumstantial evidence to support that there was a weapon.
But the jury could not reach a verdict on that charge.

The other charges where absurd.
Do you honestly think he intended to murder them?
It is absurd to think so. He was shooting in defense at Davis.
The Juries decision is what is a liberal interpretation of the law.


So again.
If he is later found not guilty, these current conviction will not stand, as his actions were in self defense which grants him immunity from all criminal actions in regards to his using such force.
 
Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

MaggieD said:
Think you're mostly right here. I also think that's why many defendants don't take the stand. They've told their attorney "I did it" and the attorney can't let him testify because he knows he's lying. Attorneys can't do that. (That doesn't apply in this case though.)

Oh, wait. No, the attorney is not required to tell the court someone confessed to them. I'd say that's what attorney/client privilege is all about. It'd be really interesting to know the ins and outs of ACP, though. Like, if a murderer tells his attorney where he stashed the murder weapon or where the bodies are buried is it legal for the attorney not to tell the cops? Hmmm.....
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I think you are right about them not having to tell the court. I was not well informed. However, I still believe the law should be changed. It should never be ok to deceive the court, and an attorney who has been told outright that "I shot the bastard" shouldn't be allowed to attempt to convince a jury that their client didn't. What purpose is served by allowing an attorney to deliberately deceive?
 
Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

Texmex said:
This is the first I have heard of this case. From what I read Dunn is fortunate to get off this easy if this verdict stands. It is one thing to carry a firearm and use it in self-defense, it's another thing to shoot into a car full of people then leave the scene.

I am a CCL holder in the state of Texas. If I had been confronted with this situation, I would have attempted to leave before any shooting or fighting started.

Something else, a person carrying a firearm is not supposed to have any alcohol in their system at all, and you certainly aren't supposed to leave the scene of the incident.

On the surface this verdict seems to be a miscarriage of justice.
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It seems the problem with this stand your ground statute in Florida is instead of making gun carriers operate from an abundance of caution and deliberately avoid combative encounters knowing they carry lethal force, it emboldens them to be more aggressive while carrying weapons. Yes I know stand your ground was never brought up in court in either the Zimmerman or Dunn cases but its possible they were thinking about it at the lead up to the killings thinking the law was on their side to give them a license to kill if things escalated.

In my opinion he didn't get off easy. He's 47 years old and is facing a minimum 60 year sentence on the charges for which he was found guilty, 20 years each for 3 attempted murder convictions. Bail was denied so he's been in jail for over a year so rounding it up to 2 years time served credit while awaiting trial and he'll be in prison at least till age 105 if my math is right.

47
-2
+20
+20
+20
= 105 ??

If the maximum sentence is given, he gets out at age 150.

47
-2
+30
+30
+30
+15
= 150

This is even with no verdict on murder; just attempted murder of his three friends and shooting a car.
 
Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

Smeagol said:
It seems the problem with this stand your ground statute in Florida is instead of making gun carriers operate from an abundance of caution and deliberately avoid combative encounters knowing they carry lethal force, it emboldens them to be more aggressive while carrying weapons. Yes I know stand your ground was never brought up in court in either the Zimmerman or Dunn cases but its possible they were thinking about it at the lead up to the killings thinking the law was on their side to give them a license to kill if things escalated.

In my opinion he didn't get off easy. He's 47 years old and is facing a minimum 60 year sentence on the charges for which he was found guilty, 20 years each for 3 attempted murder convictions. Bail was denied so he's been in jail for over a year so rounding it up to 2 years time served credit while awaiting trial and he'll be in prison at least till age 105 if my math is right.

47
-2
+20
+20
+20
= 105 ??

If the maximum sentence is given, he gets out at age 150.

47
-2
+30
+30
+30
+15
= 150

This is even with no verdict on murder; just attempted murder of his three friends and shooting a car.
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I like it. People with guns need to think twice before picking a fight. I hope this scumbag does a slow agonizing diapered death while in the prison's dementia ward.
 
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