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Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Again, I believe in people having their choices. I may not agree with them and if the state can show cause why something should not be legal that's fine. The states have no case as to why SSM shouldn't be legal.

The dominoes are falling against the anti-SSM crowd and the SCOTUS will be the final nail in the coffin for them.

Great, now I can go after marrying my cousin, my uncle, or my father in law. Isn't equal protection great?
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Or maybe you ARE saying being gay is an abnormal human condition.

Is that it?

No -- I was merely rejecting the dishonest logical fallacies you have crafted because of your prejudice and pointing out the hypocrisy inherent in the selective way you apply principles.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Again, I believe in people having their choices. I may not agree with them and if the state can show cause why something should not be legal that's fine. The states have no case as to why SSM shouldn't be legal.

The dominoes are falling against the anti-SSM crowd and the SCOTUS will be the final nail in the coffin for them.


I know ... you said that.
Some States may conclude that given human history, marriage was never meant to accommodate same gender couples.
Other States may conclude for their own reasons that they should. Doesn't mean the reasons will be the noblest.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

No -- I was merely rejecting the dishonest logical fallacies you have crafted because of your prejudice and pointing out the hypocrisy inherent in the selective way you apply principles.
You did reject it but you didn't point out any hypocrisy.
Focus on the gender component of traditional marriage and why it's been that way.
Should be obvious.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Great, now I can go after marrying my cousin, my uncle, or my father in law. Isn't equal protection great?

If the state can't show a case to make it illegal, sure. Yes, it is great, but then I know you are against freedom.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

You did reject it but you didn't point out any hypocrisy.
Focus on the gender component of traditional marriage and why it's been that way.
Should be obvious.

The hypocrisy is inherent in the way you try to use procreation as the justification for denying rights, but then apply it only selectively.

Sure, you think your red herrings and appeals to tradition mean something, but they really don't. They are not based upon logic but mere convenience.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

If the state can't show a case to make it illegal, sure. Yes, it is great, but then I know you are against freedom.

Yeah, I am against freedom because I don't use the equal protection argument on every issue like liberals do. Guess I should
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Yeah, I am against freedom because I don't use the equal protection argument on every issue like liberals do. Guess I should

Awww are you upset because your strawman argument got shredded?
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Great, now I can go after marrying my cousin, my uncle, or my father in law. Isn't equal protection great?

Not to pick on just your post, but it was like the lkast straw. The level of misinformation and failure to understand basic civics, basic logic, basic biology and so much else in this thread is astounding. That the post quoted here even exists is embarrassing. It is ignorant of any understanding of the legal issues involved and how constitutional law works.

Conservative, there is a host of information on what equal protection is and isn't online. You might want to read some of it. I am, out of the kindness of my heart, going to help you out and show you why your argument fails legally(that it is also a logical fallacy is beside the point for purposes of this).

Marriage in the US is a basic civil right. You may not like it, but it has been ruled to be one for many years, and in many cases. The only way you can change this is with a Supreme Court ruling(since they affirmed it as a right, multiple times), or by constitutional amendment(how successful have amendments that take rights away from people been?). Neither of these is at all likely to happen in the foreseeable future. In the absence of a Supreme Court ruling or amendment making marriage not a right, trying to claim it is anything but is silly.

Now you are right, equal protection does apply to every one. Otherwise it would not be equal protection. But this leads to your ignorance. You do not understand what equal protection actually is. There are limits to all rights in this country. TO impose such a limit, there are various tests. In all the cases you mentioned, Rational Basis Review is that test. Basically, is limiting the right for that group of people serve a legitimate state interest, and is the distinction of that group arbitrary. In the case of family members, the answer to the first question is almost certainly yes, and the second no. There is a potentially good reason why allowing close relatives to marry might be a negative thing. Now, apply the same standard to same sex marriages. Is there a legitimate state interest in denying those marriages? None have been put forth so far. Quite the opposite, there are legitimate, compelling reasons to allow those marriages(2 parent stable households are best for raising children). Is the distincrion of the group arbitrary. This is a more interesting question and a case could be made either way, but probably yes. Based on the fact the state has no legitimate interest in denying those marriages, SSM bans, using the same legal standard(that is equal protection) fails, while bans on incestuous marriages don't.

So now you understand how equal protection works, and also why arguments against SSM based on incest, bestiality, pedophilia, polygamy or whatever other scenario you can image do not work. You will of course ignore everything I said here since none of it is what you want to hear, but sometimes it is good to point out how the law actually works, and not how random guy on the internets thinks it works.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Not to pick on just your post, but it was like the lkast straw. The level of misinformation and failure to understand basic civics, basic logic, basic biology and so much else in this thread is astounding. That the post quoted here even exists is embarrassing. It is ignorant of any understanding of the legal issues involved and how constitutional law works.

Conservative, there is a host of information on what equal protection is and isn't online. You might want to read some of it. I am, out of the kindness of my heart, going to help you out and show you why your argument fails legally(that it is also a logical fallacy is beside the point for purposes of this).

Marriage in the US is a basic civil right. You may not like it, but it has been ruled to be one for many years, and in many cases. The only way you can change this is with a Supreme Court ruling(since they affirmed it as a right, multiple times), or by constitutional amendment(how successful have amendments that take rights away from people been?). Neither of these is at all likely to happen in the foreseeable future. In the absence of a Supreme Court ruling or amendment making marriage not a right, trying to claim it is anything but is silly.

Now you are right, equal protection does apply to every one. Otherwise it would not be equal protection. But this leads to your ignorance. You do not understand what equal protection actually is. There are limits to all rights in this country. TO impose such a limit, there are various tests. In all the cases you mentioned, Rational Basis Review is that test. Basically, is limiting the right for that group of people serve a legitimate state interest, and is the distinction of that group arbitrary. In the case of family members, the answer to the first question is almost certainly yes, and the second no. There is a potentially good reason why allowing close relatives to marry might be a negative thing. Now, apply the same standard to same sex marriages. Is there a legitimate state interest in denying those marriages? None have been put forth so far. Quite the opposite, there are legitimate, compelling reasons to allow those marriages(2 parent stable households are best for raising children). Is the distincrion of the group arbitrary. This is a more interesting question and a case could be made either way, but probably yes. Based on the fact the state has no legitimate interest in denying those marriages, SSM bans, using the same legal standard(that is equal protection) fails, while bans on incestuous marriages don't.

So now you understand how equal protection works, and also why arguments against SSM based on incest, bestiality, pedophilia, polygamy or whatever other scenario you can image do not work. You will of course ignore everything I said here since none of it is what you want to hear, but sometimes it is good to point out how the law actually works, and not how random guy on the internets thinks it works.

The chances of him reading that in its entirety are about zero. Otherwise a nugget of knowledge might find its way into his head.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Not really ... procreation is germane in that over hundreds of thousands of years humans decided to formalize an arrangement between different genders in order to maintain the species.

From a legal standpoint, procreation is not a requirement for marriage. It therefore is irrelevant in whether SSM should be legal or not.

Given that, attempts to minimize that historical reality by equating inability to procreate because of physical limitations, with what nature never intended to be possible, seems like something I'd expect you wouldn't want to do.

Nature is not a person, it does not "intend" anything, it just is. Since homosexual behavior exists in nature, homosexual behavior is part of nature. Evolution can neatly account for homosexuality, which means that as you used the word "intends", homosexuality would be "intended". There is no physical limitation in homosexuality. Gay people can physically do everything straight people can do.

Damn, that was a whole lot of wrong packed into just one sentence. I wonder if it is a record, to be so wrong in such a short time. If so, congrats!

Or maybe you ARE saying being gay is an abnormal human condition.

Is that it?

What definition of normal are you using? Without knowing that it is impossible to say whether being gay is normal or not. I would point out that if being gay is abnormal)and under many definitions it would be), so is having a genius IQ...
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Awww are you upset because your strawman argument got shredded?

No, actually I have learned a lot from you, whatever I want that isn't allowed I can argue for it using equal protection. Now that I lost my wife I can claim that I should be able to marry my cousin, my uncle, my father in law. What a great tool.

By the way, did you ever figure out what the SC ruled on DOMA?
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

The chances of him reading that in its entirety are about zero. Otherwise a nugget of knowledge might find its way into his head.


the chances of me reading anything from Redress are about zero so you are right.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

What exactly does Marriage offer a couple that you cannot have in a Civil Union?

Dude are you serious....the rights of marriage! Various government agencies from county to state to fed do not have to even acknowledge civil unions, much less treat them as equal. Better yet, YOU go call your relationship a civil union if you're so fond of that. YOU leave the state
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

The hypocrisy is inherent in the way you try to use procreation as the justification for denying rights, but then apply it only selectively.

Sure, you think your red herrings and appeals to tradition mean something, but they really don't. They are not based upon logic but mere convenience


... and 200,000 years of human development.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Dude are you serious....the rights of marriage! Various government agencies from county to state to fed do not have to even acknowledge civil unions, much less treat them as equal. Better yet, YOU go call your relationship a civil union if you're so fond of that. YOU leave the state

Then Change the law for civil unions, don't change the entire institution of Marriage. You cannot be serious. You can put anything into a civil union contract that you want and get the govt. to approve it. The SC did that with DOMA did that with Federal Benefits. You want the title of married move to one of the states that authorize it, leave the others alone
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Really? Post for me my quote about DOMA? By the way since obviously DOMA was struck down by the SC and DOMA defined Marriage then this thread is actually a waste of time

The Equal Rights argument is typical liberalism, you don't like current law because it interferes with what you want to do you fight it and take it to court, find some activist judge to give you what you want. Sounds like spoiled little children to me.

Nah spoiled children would be getting revenge and banning hetero marriage for a couple hundred years. You should be on your knees begging for mercy after what you've done.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Nah spoiled children would be getting revenge and banning hetero marriage for a couple hundred years. You should be on your knees begging for mercy after what you've done.

LOL, yep, no question about it, my God will hold me accountable for my actions. Too bad people like you don't understand that
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

100-page thread in "Breaking News" about a third-tier actress who prefers sex with women to men.

If she were a Russian double agent, this thread would be half this long.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

From a legal standpoint, procreation is not a requirement for marriage. It therefore is irrelevant in whether SSM should be legal or not.



Nature is not a person, it does not "intend" anything, it just is. Since homosexual behavior exists in nature, homosexual behavior is part of nature.
Evolution can neatly account for homosexuality, which means that as you used the word "intends", homosexuality would be "intended". There is no physical limitation in homosexuality. Gay people can physically do everything straight people can do.

Damn, that was a whole lot of wrong packed into just one sentence. I wonder if it is a record, to be so wrong in such a short time. If so, congrats!



What definition of normal are you using? Without knowing that it is impossible to say whether being gay is normal or not. I would point out that if being gay is abnormal)and under many definitions it would be), so is having a genius IQ...

It's accurate to say homosexuality exists in nature but it's not accurate to say it's natural to BE homosexual.
That's pretty much a truism and given that, the rest of what you said doesn't matter.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

No, actually I have learned a lot from you, whatever I want that isn't allowed I can argue for it using equal protection. Now that I lost my wife I can claim that I should be able to marry my cousin, my uncle, my father in law. What a great tool.

By the way, did you ever figure out what the SC ruled on DOMA?

See the thing is I wasn't using the equal protection law. Maybe you should spend more time reading and less time typing.

I said the state need to show cause why something shouldn't be legal. Tradition is not a valid excuse.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

See the thing is I was using the equal protection law. Maybe you should spend more time reading and less time typing.

I said the state need to show cause why something shouldn't be legal. Tradition is not a valid excuse.

Wrong, I want to use the equal protection laws the same way you do, on issues that have nothing to do with equal protection. Marriage isn't an equal protection issue so the state can do whatever it wasn't in defining marriage.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Wrong, I want to use the equal protection laws the same way you do, on issues that have nothing to do with equal protection. Marriage isn't an equal protection issue so the state can do whatever it wasn't in defining marriage.

The state needs to show cause, they can't. Tradition is not cause.

Try reading some more you seem to have trouble understanding. I wasn't using the equal protection clause.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

It's accurate to say homosexuality exists in nature but it's not accurate to say it's natural to BE homosexual.
That's pretty much a truism and given that, the rest of what you said doesn't matter.

Give me a definition of "natural" which does not include homosexual behavior.

It is funny how you took the least of what I said and an isolated point, and claim that since you disagree with it it means the rest of the facts presented do not matter. I realize you have no ability to actually defend your comments, but this was still particularly sad.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Wrong, I want to use the equal protection laws the same way you do, on issues that have nothing to do with equal protection. Marriage isn't an equal protection issue so the state can do whatever it wasn't in defining marriage.

See, this is why you should have read my post. Than you would stop saying stupid **** like this.
 
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