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Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

winston53660 said:
Sorry IMO if they are free that efeectively outlaws it.
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So since there were slaves after the Emancipation Proclamation it obviously wasn't outlawed. Proclaiming something doesn't make anything illegal, law does.

The thirteenth amendment, abolishing slavery, was passed by the Senate in April 1864, and by the House of Representatives in January 1865.[108] The amendment did not take effect until it was ratified by three fourths of the states, which occurred on December 6, 1865, when Georgia ratified it. On that date, all remaining slaves became officially free
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re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

clownboy said:
Asked and answered already. It's part and parcel of what she does, how she lives. And ANY publicity is good publicity in her field, no publicity isthe end of her career. Not the same stigma with lesbians as there is with male homosexuality, especially when they're not ugly.
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It's an assumption on your part and you are basically calling her a liar. Frankly, that reflects poorly on you. I thought you were more reasonable than that. You can't make such claims and state them as fact, being emphatic is not enough to substantiate it.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

opendebate said:
It's an assumption on your part and you are basically calling her a liar. Frankly, that reflects poorly on you. I thought you were more reasonable than that. You can't make such claims and state them as fact, being emphatic is not enough to substantiate it.
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If she's saying publicity didn't have anything to do with her announcement - she is a liar. And if you're believing her, that reflects poorly upon you. It's her job, all part and parcel of the life she lives in the spotlight. Empathy has nothing to do with it. She's an actress, actresses live on publicity. Really, are you seriously saying you don't know this?
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

winston53660 said:
Sorry IMO if they are free that efeectively outlaws it.
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No, freeing some slaves doesn't free them all nor does it mean more can't be made in the future. Phillidelphia freed any slave that entered their purview long before the EP or the 13th, didn't mean slavery was over. Took the 13th to do that.
 
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Mason66 said:
Polls are one thing and voting is another.
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It's kind of presumptuous to assume people will vote opposite their beliefs on an issue. If I suggested that those who answered that they don't support ssm would go and vote for candidates in support of ssm, you'd agree that would be a pretty silly thing to say.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

MACS-24 said:
So 100% is outside of statistical norm? 100% of cannibals eat other humans. You are trying to equate our culture to some other totally different culture and judging it - apples & oranges. What solletica was saying is correct.
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duh....not 100% of humans are cannibals. keep flailing and failing

using that ****ed up logic, serial killing is normal since 100% of serial killers kill a series of people. child molestation is normal since 100% of child molestors molest kids. rape is normal since 100% of rapists rape people.

I hope you can see how stupid that line of reasoning is.....
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Cardinal said:
It's kind of presumptuous to assume people will vote opposite their beliefs on an issue. If I suggested that those who answered that they don't support ssm would go and vote for candidates in support of ssm, you'd agree that would be a pretty silly thing to say.
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I am not talking about the future. Every time the public has voted on the issue, it has been defeated, which is why the only way to get it approved is with the courts now.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

CaptainCourtesy said:
Actually, the sampling was not an issue at all. It was done so BECAUSE of what the study was aimed towards. The people to be studied had to be people of each sexual orientation who were NOT involved in any kind of psychiatric treatment. Prior studies that "proved" that homosexuality was a mental illness, ONLY studied people who WERE in psychiatric treatment, a major confound as the members in the sample were KNOWN to have a mental illness. That's what distinguished Hooker's study: her sample. It could not be random in order to get accurate results.
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So to counter a bias of one kind, she introduces a study biased opposite. Why not a study that is unbiased either direction.

She quotes another document, "It is well known that many people, including physicians, react in an exaggerated way to sexual deviations and particularly to homosexuality with disgust, anger, and hostility. Such feelings often arise from the individual's own conflict centering about his unconscious homosexual impulses. These attitudes may interfere with an intelligent and objective handling of the problem." Thus establishing her own bias against such attitudes. If her goal was to be unbiased, that whole section would be unnecessary and should not of been included.

So we have a study with sanitized control groups and a biased researcher. If the study was on any other subject, what would your opinion of such a study be?
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Cardinal said:
It's kind of presumptuous to assume people will vote opposite their beliefs on an issue. If I suggested that those who answered that they don't support ssm would go and vote for candidates in support of ssm, you'd agree that would be a pretty silly thing to say.
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Have you checked out the actual state polls which is where this will be decided? suggest you do that before taking victory laps
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Mason66 said:
I am not talking about the future. Every time the public has voted on the issue, it has been defeated, which is why the only way to get it approved is with the courts now.
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Incorrect. Vermont, New Hampshire, D.C., Connecticut, New York, Washington, Maryland, Rhode Island, Minnesota, Deleware, Hawaii and Illinois voted for ssm, and a number of those were before the recent rise of public support for ssm into the majority.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Conservative said:
Have you checked out the actual state polls which is where this will be decided? suggest you do that before taking victory laps
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Ultimately, in the end, it's almost certainly the courts where it will be settled once and for all.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

clownboy said:
If she's saying publicity didn't have anything to do with her announcement - she is a liar. And if you're believing her, that reflects poorly upon you. It's her job, all part and parcel of the life she lives in the spotlight. Empathy has nothing to do with it. She's an actress, actresses live on publicity. Really, are you seriously saying you don't know this?
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Now you just sound bitter.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Cardinal said:
Incorrect. Vermont, New Hampshire, D.C., Connecticut, New York, Washington, Maryland, Rhode Island, Minnesota, Deleware, Hawaii and Illinois voted for ssm, and a number of those were before the recent rise of public support for ssm into the majority.
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Suggest again that you verify by state

Public Support for Marriage for Same-sex Couples by State | Williams Institute

That is where ratification of a Constitutional Amendment will occur. You have a long way to go and this shows why national polls are irrelevant. Kind of like popularity polls regarding Congress Since the only polls that matter regarding Congress are local polls
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Conservative said:
Suggest again that you verify by state

Public Support for Marriage for Same-sex Couples by State | Williams Institute

That is where ratification of a Constitutional Amendment will occur. You have a long way to go and this shows why national polls are irrelevant. Kind of like popularity polls regarding Congress Since the only polls that matter regarding Congress are local polls
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Not really relevant because, as I said, the issue will ultimately come down to the courts anyway.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Conservative said:
Have you checked out the actual state polls which is where this will be decided? suggest you do that before taking victory laps
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A federal judge in Virginia struck down that state's voter-approved ban on same-sex marriage this week. It's just the latest in a string of similar rulings in conservative states, and it indicates that the strategy for winning marriage equality in federal courts is moving faster than many had expected.

In her ruling, U.S. District Judge Arenda Wright Allen said Virginia's ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional because "core civil rights are at stake." She compared the case to the landmark 1967 Supreme Court ruling recognizing interracial marriage.

But the judge stayed her order pending appeal, which means same-sex couples in Virginia can't rush to the altar yet.

Still, Matthew McGill, one of the attorneys in the case, says the ruling is significant.

"You have district courts across the country, in places that are not seen as remotely liberal, all recognizing that this is what our federal Constitution and its promise of equality requires," McGill says.

Cases Blossom In Conservative States

Flood Of Gay Marriage Cases Releasing Stream Of Federal Rulings : NPR
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Cardinal said:
Post-ABC poll: Same-sex marriage and affirmative action - The Washington Post
In U.S., 52% Back Law to Legalize Gay Marriage in 50 States
In Gay Marriage Debate, Both Supporters and Opponents See Legal Recognition as
Poll: Supreme Court decisions in sync with Americans on gay marriage but not Voting Rights

I don't remember if it was 2012 or 2013 where it broke the 50% barrier, but there you go.
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All debunked quite simply because even IF, and that's a large if, the polls are accurate and taken solely from potential voters, it's not a national vote. So that "majority", or a significant portion of it may be all from a few states.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

clownboy said:
All debunked quite simply because even IF, and that's a large if, the polls are accurate and taken solely from potential voters, it's not a national vote. So that "majority", or a significant portion of it may be all from a few states.
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The initial claim (from Captain Courtesy) was that a majority of people were in favor of ssm. The polls support that.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Cardinal said:
Not really relevant because, as I said, the issue will ultimately come down to the courts anyway.
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Then obviously you have no basic civics understanding, a Constitutional Amendment over rules a court
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Conservative said:
Then obviously you have no basic civics understanding, a Constitutional Amendment over rules a court
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You seem certain of that outcome, but the trend is not leaning in that direction.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

winston53660 said:
A federal judge in Virginia struck down that state's voter-approved ban on same-sex marriage this week. It's just the latest in a string of similar rulings in conservative states, and it indicates that the strategy for winning marriage equality in federal courts is moving faster than many had expected.

In her ruling, U.S. District Judge Arenda Wright Allen said Virginia's ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional because "core civil rights are at stake." She compared the case to the landmark 1967 Supreme Court ruling recognizing interracial marriage.

But the judge stayed her order pending appeal, which means same-sex couples in Virginia can't rush to the altar yet.

Still, Matthew McGill, one of the attorneys in the case, says the ruling is significant.

"You have district courts across the country, in places that are not seen as remotely liberal, all recognizing that this is what our federal Constitution and its promise of equality requires," McGill says.

Cases Blossom In Conservative States

Flood Of Gay Marriage Cases Releasing Stream Of Federal Rulings : NPR
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Just like a liberal, run to the courts when you don't get your way. Bring on the Constitutional Amendment and you aren't going to like the outcome
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Cardinal said:
The initial claim (from Captain Courtesy) was that a majority of people were in favor of ssm. The polls support that.
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Yeah, but of course there is an unspoken codecil to CC's claim - *if our system worked that way. The simple fact is, in most states, a majority of voters are against homosexual marriage.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Cardinal said:
You seem certain of that outcome, but the trend is not leaning in that direction.
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I posted the state polling data. Do you understand how a Constitutional Amendment is ratified? Popular vote or by the states?
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Conservative said:
Just like a liberal, run to the courts when you don't get your way. Bring on the Constitutional Amendment and you aren't going to like the outcome
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Just likwe a conservative make idle threats.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Conservative said:
I posted the state polling data. Do you understand how a Constitutional Amendment is ratified? Popular vote or by the states?
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Oh, I see, you were referring to state constitutional amendments and not Federal amendments. Still irrelevant. Nevada and Wisconsin are currently in the process of dealing with repealing their amendments, and of course if higher courts determine that those state amendments are unconstitutional then, well, that's that.

So far, nothing you or Clownboy has said successfully deals with the direction of change right now. The states and the courts combined are successively heading towards nationwide recognition.
 
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