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Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Guess what "the dude" I'm not preventing anyone from doing anything - I'm merely judging your shallowness as an individual, and how you believe certain ideas to bully someone outweigh others..

And don't even pretend you don't because EVERY PROGRESSIVE thinks the same and adheres to the same ideas....You're no more unique than Janeane Garofalo, Lady Gaga or et al...

more fantasies and posted lies.
once again you are attacking the poster instead of addressing the topic, you're posts are halarious
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Yet you act like gays are being assaulted and ridiculed at an epidemic rate..

Give me examples...

Gays are picked on no more than fat people or short people, or even overly intelligent people.

Why the **** aren't you defending them? oh yeah because they're not listed in your progressive playbook.

These comparisons you are making are absolutely ridiculous. Are fat peopled prevented in most states from marrying each other? Was it ever a felony to be fat? Hell fat people are in the majority anymore. Moreover, someone that is obese can lose weight, someone that is gay cannot change their sexual preference.

People are defined by who they are and what they do. For example, I am married, white, straight, a father, an avid runner / cyclist, form the South originally and so on. Its quite easy to state I am these things because by and large society has been pretty easy on white straight guys. That is not all that defines me, but it is part of what does. Similarly, someone that is gay might be an avid runner, they may be from the South, in some cases they may be a father, they might be white, in a few states they might be married, but they are also gay and there is nothing wrong with that, it is just another aspect of their lives that defines them. Telling their friends and family that they are gay does not mean they are trying to be divisive, but rather that they are just revealing something about themselves. There is nothing liberal about that, and only a bigot would see anything wrong with that.

Finally, it does take some courage on their part to come out because unfortunately there are still a lot of religious and social conservatives that are not too keen on people being gay.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Start here…

The thing to understand is that natural selection tends to weed out traits that are not conducive to the continued existence of a species. But it's not a perfect or complete process. If it were, then there would be no solid black peppered Moths, nor would there be any human homosexuals (assuming a purely-genetic cause for homosexuality).

Also, due to the diploid nature of animal cells (including human) deleterious traits are more able to persist than they would in a strictly haploid form of life.

Homosexuality isn't necessarily a "deleterious trait." I can think of a perfectly good evolutionary reason for homosexuality to exist. Population control.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Yeah, remember that time a kid was tied to a fence post and pistol-whipped to death because he was fat? Me either.

There are numerous cases where kids have been bullied and beaten because of their physical appearance where sexual orientation had nothing to do with it. To claim that this whole thing about confession of being gay is the result of abuse is not warranted. If you are gay and it is normal for you then there shouldn't be the need to make a confession period.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

There are numerous cases where kids have been bullied and beaten because of their physical appearance where sexual orientation had nothing to do with it.

Yeah, no ****.

To claim that this whole thing about confession of being gay is the result of abuse is not warranted.

Nobody made that claim.

If you are gay and it is normal for you then there shouldn't be the need to make a confession period.

"Make a confession"? Telling people who you are is "confessing"? You only confess if you've done something wrong.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Start here…

The thing to understand is that natural selection tends to weed out traits that are not conducive to the continued existence of a species. But it's not a perfect or complete process. If it were, then there would be no solid black peppered Moths, nor would there be any human homosexuals (assuming a purely-genetic cause for homosexuality).

Also, due to the diploid nature of animal cells (including human) deleterious traits are more able to persist than they would in a strictly haploid form of life.
Your argument is fundamentally flawed. In your Peppered Moth example, it was the ones who did not adapt to the changed environment which died out, thus ensuring that those who DID mutate passed on the mutation to their children. That is Genetics 101.

However, in the case of homosexuality, the same does not apply. Given that every single homosexual on the planet was born from a heterosexual union, their sexual orientation was passed to them (again, assuming a genetic cause for homosexuality) predominantly from those who do not share their sexual orientation. If anything, and again this all assumes a genetic cause for homosexuality, you are looking at a recessive trait for homosexuality. Since recessive traits can be passed from generation to generation without asserting themselves, and since sexual orientation is not a factor which contributes to longevity as an individual or a person's ability (ability, mind you, not desire) to reproduce, your argument fails.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

These comparisons you are making are absolutely ridiculous. Are fat peopled prevented in most states from marrying each other? Was it ever a felony to be fat? Hell fat people are in the majority anymore. Moreover, someone that is obese can lose weight, someone that is gay cannot change their sexual preference.

People are defined by who they are and what they do. For example, I am married, white, straight, a father, an avid runner / cyclist, form the South originally and so on. Its quite easy to state I am these things because by and large society has been pretty easy on white straight guys. That is not all that defines me, but it is part of what does. Similarly, someone that is gay might be an avid runner, they may be from the South, in some cases they may be a father, they might be white, in a few states they might be married, but they are also gay and there is nothing wrong with that, it is just another aspect of their lives that defines them. Telling their friends and family that they are gay does not mean they are trying to be divisive, but rather that they are just revealing something about themselves. There is nothing liberal about that, and only a bigot would see anything wrong with that.

Finally, it does take some courage on their part to come out because unfortunately there are still a lot of religious and social conservatives that are not too keen on people being gay.

dont be silly and start using facts and logic to disprove a fallacy strawman ;)
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Homosexuality isn't necessarily a "deleterious trait." I can think of a perfectly good evolutionary reason for homosexuality to exist. Population control.

Population control is not a feature of natural selection. The reason why gays and lesbians were not weeded out by natural selection is that gays and lesbians are perfectly capable of mating with the opposite sex, indeed did so throughout human history, and survival until producing and raising the next generation is ultimately all natural selection is concerned with.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Population control is not a feature of natural selection. The reason why gays and lesbians were not weeded out by natural selection is that gays and lesbians are perfectly capable of mating with the opposite sex, indeed did so throughout human history, and survival until producing and raising the next generation is ultimately all natural selection is concerned with.

Fair enough, you know more about that **** than I do. I was more speaking of why the trait may have existed in the first place. It's a theory, and not one I intend to spend a lot of time arguing for.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Homosexuality isn't necessarily a "deleterious trait." I can think of a perfectly good evolutionary reason for homosexuality to exist. Population control.

You have to admit that that is quite a stretch you're making, there.

Natural selection doesn't deal with “population control”. It's about survival of the fittest. Those who have the best genetic traits to survive and succeed are the ones who get to pass those traits on to future generations, insuring that the future generations will tend to predominantly possess the best traits that allowed their ancestors to survive and succeed. From this point of view, homosexuality is not a trait of the fittest. It's a trait that very specifically tends to prevent those who have it from passing their genetics on to future generations. Therefore, it is a trait that is, and always will be, uncommon, found in only a small minority of any given population.

And in too small a minority to have any significant effect toward “population control”.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

No, genius, because they're not what the thread is about. I'm against bullying of all sorts. You're the one trying to change the subject.

Also, there's not people trying to prevent fat people from getting married, or trying to keep it legal to fire someone for being too smart. Sorry, but in some ways gay people do have it worse.



Matthew Shepard.


Matthew Shepard? that was what 15 years ago - not to mention there is evidence to suggest what happened to him had NOTHING to do with the fact he was gay but got involved in a drug deal gone wrong.

Yeah and how manny kids have killed themselves since then because they were teased for being "geeks", "fat", "ugly", "stupid" or even too smart or short just to name a few reasons..
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Your argument is fundamentally flawed. In your Peppered Moth example, it was the ones who did not adapt to the changed environment which died out, thus ensuring that those who DID mutate passed on the mutation to their children. That is Genetics 101.

However, in the case of homosexuality, the same does not apply. Given that every single homosexual on the planet was born from a heterosexual union, their sexual orientation was passed to them (again, assuming a genetic cause for homosexuality) predominantly from those who do not share their sexual orientation. If anything, and again this all assumes a genetic cause for homosexuality, you are looking at a recessive trait for homosexuality. Since recessive traits can be passed from generation to generation without asserting themselves, and since sexual orientation is not a factor which contributes to longevity as an individual or a person's ability (ability, mind you, not desire) to reproduce, your argument fails.

Sexual orientation absolutely is a factor when it comes to reproduction.

Homosexuals can reproduce, but in order to do so, they have to go against their nature, and participate in heterosexual matings. This certainly makes them significantly less likely to reproduce, and to pass their traits on to future generations, than heterosexuals who, can reproduce without taking extraordinary means to violate their nature.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Fair enough, you know more about that **** than I do. I was more speaking of why the trait may have existed in the first place. It's a theory, and not one I intend to spend a lot of time arguing for.

The hard core right wingers use that argument a lot, which is funny because many of them don't even accept evolution. At any rate since in most cultures, and probably in prehistoric hunter / gather cultures as well, gays and lesbians throughout most of human history married and or mated with the opposite sex because of cultural / social pressures in their group, and thus produced offspring. Therefore if there is a genetic basis for homosexuality, there is nothing that would have kept it from being passed from generation to generation in terms of evolution. In fact, one could argue that now that homosexuality is becoming more and more accepted, and thus homosexuals have far less society pressure to marry someone of the opposite sex, if there is a genetic basis to homosexuality, there may well be less gays and lesbians in future generations.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

And you know this for a fact, how? Were you in the room with them? Or, as I suspect, is this just your own personal opinion masquerading as fact?

Well, I suppose it is possibly that she is totally economically incompetent and stupid and this just dumb good luck on her part. Is that your point?

My point is 1.) how is this newsworthy and 2.) this did not take courage on her part as she faced no risks, only potential benefits - and that is what happened. She is an actor who made front page in a way acceptable and beneficial to her career.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Sexual orientation absolutely is a factor when it comes to reproduction.

Homosexuals can reproduce, but in order to do so, they have to go against their nature, and participate in heterosexual matings. This certainly makes them significantly less likely to reproduce, and to pass their traits on to future generations, than heterosexuals who, can reproduce without taking extraordinary means to violate their nature.

I am pretty sure that back when being gay would get you death by stoning, homosexuals had little trouble marrying the opposite sex and mating even though they were not sexually attracted to them.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Sexual orientation absolutely is a factor when it comes to reproduction.

Homosexuals can reproduce, but in order to do so, they have to go against their nature, and participate in heterosexual matings. This certainly makes them significantly less likely to reproduce, and to pass their traits on to future generations, than heterosexuals who, can reproduce without taking extraordinary means to violate their nature.
Yes, that is true that homosexuals do not reproduce at nearly the rate of heterosexuals. But, that is immaterial, as it completely ignores the fact that A) there is not enough evidence yet to conclude that homosexuality is genetic and B) even if it were, that it is a dominant trait and not recessive.

But, assuming it IS genetic, there is more evidence for the recessive trait theory than the dominant trait theory. Since every homosexual in the world (past, present, and future) is the result of a heterosexual mating, the trait is OBVIOUSLY passed on from parents who (barring the small number of gay parents) do not share that trait as dominant...thus RECESSIVE. And recessive traits can go from generation to generation without asserting themselves. Things like blond hair, blue eyes, and albinism (if I remember correctly on that last one) are all RECESSIVE traits, yet albinos still exist and are born of non-albino parents...and will continue to exist.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Matthew Shepard? that was what 15 years ago - not to mention there is evidence to suggest what happened to him had NOTHING to do with the fact he was gay but got involved in a drug deal gone wrong.

The evidence is rather flimsy.

Yeah and how manny kids have killed themselves since then because they were teased for being "geeks", "fat", "ugly", "stupid" or even too smart or short just to name a few reasons..

Which is tragic. And also completely unrelated to the issue at hand here.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Well, I suppose it is possibly that she is totally economically incompetent and stupid and this just dumb good luck on her part. Is that your point?

My point is 1.) how is this newsworthy and 2.) this did not take courage on her part as she faced no risks, only potential benefits - and that is what happened. She is an actor who made front page in a way acceptable and beneficial to her career.

I agree that it isn't newsworthy beyond, maybe, a blurb somewhere. "And in other news, Ellen Page comes out of the closet...now, to sports!" That I can understand. This front page, tear-filled interview? Yeah, I don't get it either.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

These comparisons you are making are absolutely ridiculous. Are fat peopled prevented in most states from marrying each other? Was it ever a felony to be fat? Hell fat people are in the majority anymore. Moreover, someone that is obese can lose weight, someone that is gay cannot change their sexual preference.

People are defined by who they are and what they do. For example, I am married, white, straight, a father, an avid runner / cyclist, form the South originally and so on. Its quite easy to state I am these things because by and large society has been pretty easy on white straight guys. That is not all that defines me, but it is part of what does. Similarly, someone that is gay might be an avid runner, they may be from the South, in some cases they may be a father, they might be white, in a few states they might be married, but they are also gay and there is nothing wrong with that, it is just another aspect of their lives that defines them. Telling their friends and family that they are gay does not mean they are trying to be divisive, but rather that they are just revealing something about themselves. There is nothing liberal about that, and only a bigot would see anything wrong with that.

Finally, it does take some courage on their part to come out because unfortunately there are still a lot of religious and social conservatives that are not too keen on people being gay.

No one is preventing anyone from marrying anyone..... State contract law has no bias. What gays want "oddly enough" is de facto joint contractual and a financial affairs which is granted when a straight couple gets hitched.

^ I find that to be total bull**** considering most straight couples would probably feel uncomfortable with those precedences hence a prenub.

The reality is that gays actually believe if the state enforces gay marriage that all of a sudden the residents of that state by de facto are forced to change their moral or ethics on the issue all because the state "says so" like we live in the North Korea and whatever the "dear leader" says goes - which is exactly what progressives want.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

The reality is that gays actually believe if the state enforces gay marriage that all of a sudden the residents of that state by de facto are forced to change their moral or ethics on the issue all because the state "says so" like we live in the North Korea and whatever the "dear leader" says goes - which is exactly what progressives want.
Do you ever NOT stereotype and make assumptions?
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

The evidence is rather flimsy.



Which is tragic. And also completely unrelated to the issue at hand here.

There is nothing "flimsy" about Sheppard and the evidence that points to the fact he was a drug dealer himself or was involved in the drug trade.

Also, if these other cases mentioned are so tragic then why you focus all your attention on skin color and sexuality?
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

No one is preventing anyone from marrying anyone..... State contract law has no bias. What gays want "oddly enough" is de facto joint contractual and a financial affairs which is granted when a straight couple gets hitched.

^ I find that to be total bull**** considering most straight couples would probably feel uncomfortable with those precedences hence a prenub.

The reality is that gays actually believe if the state enforces gay marriage that all of a sudden the residents of that state by de facto are forced to change their moral or ethics on the issue all because the state "says so" like we live in the North Korea and whatever the "dear leader" says goes - which is exactly what progressives want.

nope nobody cares about morals or ethics lol

its about equal rights

North Korea? LMAO if we lived there YOU would be getting yout way and equal rights wouldn't be winning but it is and that proves you wrong :)
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

I agree that it isn't newsworthy beyond, maybe, a blurb somewhere. "And in other news, Ellen Page comes out of the closet...now, to sports!" That I can understand. This front page, tear-filled interview? Yeah, I don't get it either.

What front-page, tear-filled interview?

1. I highly doubt that Ellen Page's coming out made the front page of anything except maybe her hometown paper.

2. There was no "interview." It was a speech at a convention for people who work with LGBTQ youth. It got picked up by the 24/7 news networks and obviously entertainment websites ... other than that, it barely registered a blip. Looking at CNN.com right now, it's well down on the home page and will very likely to get bumped completely off in the morning. It's not on the New York Times home page. It's not on MSNBC's. There hasn't been nearly the media presence that people have been claiming on this thread.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Do you ever NOT stereotype and make assumptions?

Make assumptions? stereotype?

I didn't invent the word or champion the idea of collectivism - a word many progressives enjoy using...

Sure I stereotype - especially when it's your goal to be a collectivist nation and not a nation of individuals, a nation or brand where the theory is that the group defeats the individual.
 
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