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Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

So mental disorders do not exist unless they are diagnosed? There are not happy, law abiding sociopaths in society that have not been diagnosed?

A happy, law abiding sociopath would not be a sociopath. I'll say it again... if you don't have the symptoms of sociopathy, you're not a sociopath.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Every American has the same right to marry any member of the opposite sex that will have them. That is reality

Reality is this is a failed argument. Why do people get married? When you can honestly answer that and then see if there is equity between straight and gay couples, you'll understand why your line of reasoning fails.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

It is not ignorance. Weak people kill themselves. The topic is gay people killing themselves because they are afraid to come out or are being bullied. That is not a mental illness, that is weakness.

No, it's ignorance on the topic. You don't understand mental health or sucidality. It has nothing to do with weakness.

Why would anybody care what anybody else says about them? Weakness.

This FURTHERS the evidence that you are uneducated on basic psychology and issues around suicide and why it occurs. Your position is overly simplistic and shows a general ignorance of the issue. I suggest you read up on it and get back to us when you understand it better.

If you identify with weakness, that is yor thing.

Since weakness is not the issue here, your comment is irrelevant.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

So to counter a bias of one kind, she introduces a study biased opposite. Why not a study that is unbiased either direction.

You STILL don't get the point of the study. There is no bias. The selectivity of the sample was necessary to eliminate bias.

She quotes another document, "It is well known that many people, including physicians, react in an exaggerated way to sexual deviations and particularly to homosexuality with disgust, anger, and hostility. Such feelings often arise from the individual's own conflict centering about his unconscious homosexual impulses. These attitudes may interfere with an intelligent and objective handling of the problem." Thus establishing her own bias against such attitudes. If her goal was to be unbiased, that whole section would be unnecessary and should not of been included.

So we have a study with sanitized control groups and a biased researcher. If the study was on any other subject, what would your opinion of such a study be?

Since the control groups were appropriate for the study and the bias of the researcher... if there was any, is not evidenced in the results, I have no issue with the study at all. The study is methodologically sound. All of your objections are irrelevant as the sampling process is key to prevent bias in the results.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Just like a liberal, run to the courts when you don't get your way. Bring on the Constitutional Amendment and you aren't going to like the outcome

Just like a conservative. Ignore the courts when it doesn't go your way. Bring on the Constitutional Amendment... you aren't going to like the outcome. Over the past 5-10 years, support for SSM has changed in several states. This trend will continue.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Yeah, but of course there is an unspoken codecil to CC's claim - *if our system worked that way. The simple fact is, in most states, a majority of voters are against homosexual marriage.

See. this is a straw man. I never made any claim around voting or states. I stated quite clearly that the majority of the population supports SSM. This is an accurate statement.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

And everyone in existence has been diagnosed and none lead happy lives? Ok, got you.

No one ever said this. It is an absurd statement.

No. You said:



I gave you an example of a behavior common to male homosexuals that causes "distress and dysfunction". You are just trying to deflect from the fact that it does in fact cause "distress and dysfunction".

So, in accordance with your own statement, "For something to be considered a mental illness it needs to cause distress and dysfunction" and the fact that anal sex, which is a common behavior of male homosexuals, does cause distress and dysfunction, which is proven by the fact that medically is known to cause injury and dysfunction, then you are, in fact, saying that homosexuality is a mental illness. When your statements, that have been quoted here, are taken together, that is the meaning they express.

You continue to not understand the difference between sexual behavior and sexual orientation. We know that not all male homosexuals practice anal sex. That's one way your argument is sunk. We also know that not every instance of anal sex causes any distress or dysfunction. That's way number two your argument fails. And way number three... and this is key and shows that you don't understand how mental health diagnoses work, the distress has to be psychological. This is the cornerstone of why Hooker's study proved that homosexuality is not a mental disorder; homosexuality in and of itself causes no distress or dysfunction. And, like CT, I also am a mental health professional, using the DSM daily. You are WAY out of your league on this issue.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Reality is this is a failed argument. Why do people get married? When you can honestly answer that and then see if there is equity between straight and gay couples, you'll understand why your line of reasoning fails.

Given the skyrocketing divorce rate I would say that whatever people are getting married for these days is probably not the greatest of reasons.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

No, the only poll that matters is the national poll. Just because certain rightist states remain opposed doesn't alter the fact that the majority of the population supports SSM.

Your opinion noted but misguided. The national vote doesn't ratify Constitutional Amendments nor elect Congressional Representatives.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Reality is this is a failed argument. Why do people get married? When you can honestly answer that and then see if there is equity between straight and gay couples, you'll understand why your line of reasoning fails.

Again, your opinion noted and misguided. So you don't have the right to marry any member of the opposite sex that will have you just like me? There are a number of reasons I got married and was married for over 40 years. Malcontents like you simply want attention and aren't going to like the outcome of the Constitutional Amendment defining marriage.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Just like a conservative. Ignore the courts when it doesn't go your way. Bring on the Constitutional Amendment... you aren't going to like the outcome. Over the past 5-10 years, support for SSM has changed in several states. This trend will continue.

Just like a liberal, go to the courts when you cannot sell your personal opinion to the majority. Polls are personal opinions at the time based upon how the question is asked and many will say what they believe the pollster wants to hear. The real vote is and always has been quite different. Thought someone of your superior intelligence would have known that? the recent North Carolina vote should tell you that.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Just like a liberal, go to the courts when you cannot sell your personal opinion to the majority. Polls are personal opinions at the time based upon how the question is asked and many will say what they believe the pollster wants to hear. The real vote is and always has been quite different. Thought someone of your superior intelligence would have known that? the recent North Carolina vote should tell you that.

California, Utah, Oklahoma and Virginia's amendments have been ruled unconstitutional, as will North Carolina's in time.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

California, Utah, Oklahoma and Virginia's amendments have been ruled unconstitutional, as will North Carolina's in time.

Great, cannot wait for the Constitutional Amendment fight. should be a lot of fun and interesting. You think 61% of those in North Carolina should be ignored?
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Great, cannot wait for the Constitutional Amendment fight. should be a lot of fun and interesting. You think 61% of those in North Carolina should be ignored?

Yes. Even a majority who wants to deny rights to others should be ignored.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Sooo, when's that Federal amendment fight coming up?
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Great, cannot wait for the Constitutional Amendment fight. should be a lot of fun and interesting. You think 61% of those in North Carolina should be ignored?

In a year or two when you find yourself in a real, live civics class at school, have the teacher explain to you the concept of "tyranny of the majority", k?

Failing that, at least show you have even the most rudimentary understanding of the separation of powers.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Yes. Even a majority who wants to deny rights to others should be ignored.

This country was created based upon a Constitution that provides provisions for ratification of a amendments. National popular polls were never the tool to ratify our Constitution. Why is it you continue to ignore the votes of the people and instead always point to polls? The People of California overwhelming rejected same sex marriage until overturned by the courts. The people of North Carolina told the pollsters one thing and voted the opposite. You just don't get it but will when the Constitutional Amendment is ratififed
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

In a year or two when you find yourself in a real, live civics class at school, have the teacher explain to you the concept of "tyranny of the majority", k?

Failing that, at least show you have even the most rudimentary understanding of the separation of powers.

Suggest you explain that to the Founders and creators of the Constitution. How is a Constitutional Amendment ratified? At 67 years of age I assure you that I have a better grasp of history and civics than you will ever have.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

This country was created based upon a Constitution that provides provisions for ratification of a amendments. National popular vote was never the tool to ratify our Constitution. Why is it you continue to ignore the votes of the people and instead always point to polls? The People of California overwhelming rejected same sex marriage until overturned by the courts. The people of North Carolina told the pollsters one thing and voted the opposite. You just don't get it but will when the Constitutional Amendment is ratififed

a. State constitutions do not trump the Federal Constitution, therefore...
b. state laws and amendments, even those voted in on a majority, can be ruled unconstitutional.
c. If confused about b., see a.
d. Regarding a Federal Amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman, you are either dreaming or a time traveler from circa fifteen years ago. Welcome to 2014. Some things have changed.
 
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re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

I assure you that I have a better grasp of history and civics than you will ever have.

This claim is dubious, especially as you were unaware of the number of votes required to amend the constitution, and unaware of the number of states required in a constitutional convention (which you did not seem to be aware has never happened).
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

a. State constitutions do not trump the Federal Constitution, therefore...
b. state laws and amendments, even those voted in on a majority, can be ruled unconstitutional.
c. If confused about b., see a.
d. Regarding a Federal Amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman, you are either dreaming or a time traveler from circa fifteen years ago. Welcome to 2014. Some things have changed.

Yes, and I have acknowledged that, apparently you don't understand how a Constitutional Amendment is ratified. Let me explain that it isn't done by poll numbers or by national popular vote.

Name for me any state where the poll numbers match the vote when put on the ballot? Courts have overruled state constitutional amendments but the Supreme Court has never heard a case on the definition of marriage. That is going to happen and if it goes against the will of the people you are going to see a Constitutional Amendment ratified by the votes of the state electorate. I suggest a civics course for you but being in LA you probably wouldn't get the true American version
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Yes, and I have acknowledged that, apparently you don't understand how a Constitutional Amendment is ratified. Let me explain that it isn't done by poll numbers or by national popular vote.

Name for me any state where the poll numbers match the vote when put on the ballot? Courts have overruled state constitutional amendments but the Supreme Court has never heard a case on the definition of marriage. That is going to happen and if it goes against the will of the people you are going to see a Constitutional Amendment ratified by the votes of the state electorate. I suggest a civics course for you but being in LA you probably wouldn't get the true American version

I can't imagine the bubble you must be living in to believe that amendment is going to happen before the next coming coming of Haley's Comet. Head shaking stuff.

I just think it's funny that you happily provided a source on the states that don't approve of gay marriage, then crumpled it up and threw it out the instant you learned that they didn't add up to the number you needed.
 
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