Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat[W:600]

rabbitcaebannog · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

buck said:
I truly don't know if they are or not. They are owned by a dutch company, which makes it difficult to locate financial info on them... But this is normally not a positive sign:

Nah, other stores have done this same thing here and in the south, union and nonunion. They consolidate, buy each other out, close down the least productive stores etc....that is nothing new nor immune to any business model. Even Walmart closes many of its least productive locations.

buck · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

rabbitcaebannog said:
Nah, other stores have done this same thing here and in the south, union and nonunion. They consolidate, buy each other out, close down the least productive stores etc....that is nothing new nor immune to any business model. Even Walmart closes many of its least productive locations.

I will completely admit I do not know.. But leaving an entire state.. Still doesn't sounds all that healthy. But, again - WTH would I know about what's going on up there and there just isn't a lot of news on Stop and Shop that I can locate- other than the labor unrest from a few years ago and leaving NH and the number of stores they have (300 and something).

rabbitcaebannog · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

buck said:
I will completely admit I do not know.. But leaving an entire state.. Still doesn't sounds all that healthy. But, again - WTH would I know about what's going on up there and there just isn't a lot of news on Stop and Shop that I can locate- other than the labor unrest from a few years ago and leaving NH and the number of stores they have (300 and something).

They haven't closed stores in this area. A lot of times, stores are more vulnerable in certain areas more so than others. Depressed areas are very vulnerable for obvious reasons. Where I lived down south, it was horrible.

Misterveritis · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

rabbitcaebannog said:
Volkswagen later denied Corker’s statement that expansion at the plant was dependent on a no-union vote. Other state lawmakers threatened to cut off tax incentives for the plant if workers unionized.

That's what you call scummy.

Or reasonable. Why should the state give its political enemies tax incentives? Unions, in general, are damaging to the places that let them in.

Public sector unions are the worst. But any union becomes a political instrument and a steady funding source for the enemies of liberty and individual freedom.

rabbitcaebannog · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

Misterveritis said:
But any union becomes a political instrument and a steady funding source for the enemies of liberty and individual freedom.

:lamo

Grant · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

rabbitcaebannog said:
:lamo

Yet another Leftist who can't put forth an articulate response.

rabbitcaebannog · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

Grant said:
Yet another Leftist who can't put forth an articulate response.

Perhaps because this statement "But any union becomes a political instrument and a steady funding source for the enemies of liberty and individual freedom" is asinine.

Grant · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

rabbitcaebannog said:
Perhaps because this statement "But any union becomes a political instrument and a steady funding source for the enemies of liberty and individual freedom" is asinine.

There has been a history of Unions overwhelmingly supporting the Democratic party. Do you disagree?

rabbitcaebannog · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

Grant said:
There has been a history of Unions overwhelmingly supporting the Democratic party. Do you disagree?

No, I think it is a true statement that the Dem party has favored labor legislation. That does not always apply nor need to apply exclusively to any one party. I would like to see the Repub party get more on board. Perhaps, it would be nice to have more than two parties representing people's views.

Grant · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

rabbitcaebannog said:
No, I think it is a true statement that the Dem party has favored labor legislation. That does not always apply nor need to apply exclusively to any one party. I would like to see the Repub party get more on board. Perhaps, it would be nice to have more than two parties representing people's views.

That's a much better argument than your earlier one. Please accept my apology for that snarky response.

j-mac · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

rabbitcaebannog said:
No, I think it is a true statement that the Dem party has favored labor legislation. That does not always apply nor need to apply exclusively to any one party. I would like to see the Repub party get more on board. Perhaps, it would be nice to have more than two parties representing people's views.

The answer is not for Republican to act more like demo's rather they should continue to highlight the difference.

rabbitcaebannog · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

j-mac said:
The answer is not for Republican to act more like demo's rather they should continue to highlight the difference.

Meaning they should oppose all things labor? Seems that is the direction many have taken. Not sure how that is good for anyone. All power given to business to decide is what is leading us to the race to the bottom. Unless we want to change directions and rethink what we've been properly conditioned to believe, things will not change. Only movements have changed things in this country and we really haven't had one in a very long time. I doubt we'll see a labor movement anytime soon with people's current perceptions about how our economy should function and how people should get properly compensated for a days work when it comes to labor. No wonder why wages have stagnated for the past 40 years. I predict those stagnate wages will no longer stagnate but decline for many people in this country. If we want to keep up with slave labor, that is the paradigm to follow instead of making trade illegal for country's that engage in poor labor practice, we follow their lead. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Fletch · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

rabbitcaebannog said:
Meaning they should oppose all things labor? Seems that is the direction many have taken. Not sure how that is good for anyone. All power given to business to decide is what is leading us to the race to the bottom. Unless we want to change directions and rethink what we've been properly conditioned to believe, things will not change. Only movements have changed things in this country and we really haven't had one in a very long time. I doubt we'll see a labor movement anytime soon with people's current perceptions about how our economy should function and how people should get properly compensated for a days work when it comes to labor. No wonder why wages have stagnated for the past 40 years. I predict those stagnate wages will no longer stagnate but decline for many people in this country. If we want to keep up with slave labor, that is the paradigm to follow instead of making trade illegal for country's that engage in poor labor practice, we follow their lead. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Could you tell me what it was the UAW offered the workers at VW that they didn't already have and why you have such a problem with their decision? If they voted it down, they voted it down. Why do you care, you don't work there. Why do you have such difficulty allowing people to determine their own fate in such matters?

rabbitcaebannog · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

Fletch said:
Could you tell me what it was the UAW offered the workers at VW that they didn't already have and why you have such a problem with their decision? If they voted it down, they voted it down. Why do you care, you don't work there. Why do you have such difficulty allowing people to determine their own fate in such matters?

Sure, a strong voice in both domestic labor policy and international. All I care about is a fair election which this was not with all the money being spent by the Republicans and lies to influence votes but apparently, this is the new normal. Personally, I wouldn't even bother with a second vote. I think the company should still seek the labor voice they desire on an international level with the German Council in a more friendly place in the US. If for nothing else, to try a new much needed model for labor here. TN will have many other type business that will seek their needs. JMHO

jimbo · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

rabbitcaebannog said:
Sure, a strong voice in both domestic labor policy and international. All I care about is a fair election which this was not with all the money being spent by the Republicans and lies to influence votes but apparently, this is the new normal. Personally, I wouldn't even bother with a second vote. I think the company should still seek the labor voice they desire on an international level with the German Council in a more friendly place in the US. If for nothing else, to try a new much needed model for labor here. TN will have many other type business that will seek their needs. JMHO

How do you claim that this was not a fair election? Did not both sides spend money to get out the message? Were not the workers allowed to go in to the booth and make their choice? Were not all parties allowed to speak up?

Because one side or the other lost does not make an unfair election.

rabbitcaebannog · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

jimbo said:
How do you claim that this was not a fair election? Did not both sides spend money to get out the message? Were not the workers allowed to go in to the booth and make their choice? Were not all parties allowed to speak up?

Because one side or the other lost does not make an unfair election.

Public leaders with a lot of influence and money got involved where they didn't belong. It was between the company and the employees.

jimbo · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

rabbitcaebannog said:
Public leaders with a lot of influence and money got involved where they didn't belong. It was between the company and the employees.

And other people with lots of influence and money did not get involved, like the unions? I admit to not following this one, but I doubt that all parties left it to the company and the employees.

Frankly, this smells like sour grapes.

ludin · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

jimbo said:
And other people with lots of influence and money did not get involved, like the unions? I admit to not following this one, but I doubt that all parties left it to the company and the employees.

Frankly, this smells like sour grapes.

it is. the union dumped hundreds of thousands into trying to get them to vote for a union.
now that they lost they are wanting a revote which is what people like that do.

if it fails again they will want another revote until they get what they want.

the workers want a workers council US law prevents it from happening unless they are unionized.

my recommendation is they form their own plant union they still don't nee the UAW.

rabbitcaebannog · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

jimbo said:
And other people with lots of influence and money did not get involved, like the unions? I admit to not following this one, but I doubt that all parties left it to the company and the employees.

Frankly, this smells like sour grapes.

Um, yeah, UAW was involved in its own campaign. That's usually how it works. The big difference here is most of the time, the company will involve itself in its own campaign. In this case they opted not to since they run under a different model. Norquist and friends didn't like that which is none of their business. It's between the employer, unions and employees.

rabbitcaebannog · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

ludin said:
it is. the union dumped hundreds of thousands into trying to get them to vote for a union.
now that they lost they are wanting a revote which is what people like that do.

if it fails again they will want another revote until they get what they want.

the workers want a workers council US law prevents it from happening unless they are unionized.

my recommendation is they form their own plant union they still don't nee the UAW.

They deserve a new vote although the well has been poisoned.

Btw, without a union, it defeats the purpose of the a German work council gaining a labor voice from the US plant.

jimbo · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

rabbitcaebannog said:
Um, yeah, UAW was involved in its own campaign. That's usually how it works. The big difference here is most of the time, the company will involve itself in its own campaign. In this case they opted not to since they run under a different model. Norquist and friends didn't like that which is none of their business. It's between the employer, unions and employees.

Now it is the union and workers involved and the company stayed out of it? A couple of posts up it was the company and the workers, no mention of the union.

But still, the election was rigged because others dared to voice their opinion. Is the claim now that the workers who voted were just to dumb to sort out the rhetoric of both unions and those other eevil guys and make a decision? Or that they were and didn't vote the way you thought they should.

rabbitcaebannog · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

jimbo said:
Now it is the union and workers involved and the company stayed out of it? A couple of posts up it was the company and the workers, no mention of the union.

But still, the election was rigged because others dared to voice their opinion. Is the claim now that the workers who voted were just to dumb to sort out the rhetoric of both unions and those other eevil guys and make a decision? Or that they were and didn't vote the way you thought they should.

The union is most definitely part of it. If it was left out, my bad. No one said the workers were dumb. Being misled by a leader(s) you trust doesn't make them in the wrong in any shape or form. There is no doubt the well was poisoned but I don't think a re-vote will change that much.

joko104 · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

buck said:
Even the union stores here (Dominicks and Jewel) got rid of the meat cutters unions long ago. They made some serious bank, from what I understand. Now they outsource most of the cutting to non-union cutters.

Long ago the Meatcutters union sold out to the UFCW - which is a sweetheart deal union that will gun down it's own members salaries for companies that force members to join the UFCW. The UFCW would also advise companies to fire any of their members who went on strike, even it the members voted to do so.

rabbitcaebannog · Feb 22, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

joko104 said:
Long ago the Meatcutters union sold out to the UFCW - which is a sweetheart deal union that will gun down it's own members salaries for companies that force members to join the UFCW. The UFCW would also advise companies to fire any of their members who went on strike, even it the members voted to do so.

Are you a meatcutter?

Misterveritis · Feb 23, 2014

The Socialist have stacked the deck against thos who love liberty and freedom.

rabbitcaebannog said:
Perhaps because this statement "But any union becomes a political instrument and a steady funding source for the enemies of liberty and individual freedom" is asinine.

In your opinion where do most union donated dollars end up?

Here is one opinion from a website:

Public employee unions represent workers at every level of government, federal, state and local. Since contract negotiations for these workers are dependent not on private corporations, but on the size of government budgets, this is the one segment of the labor movement that can actually contribute directly to the people with ultimate responsibility for its livelihood. While their giving pattern matches that of other unions (which overwhelmingly support Democrats), public sector unions also concentrate contributions on members of Congress from both parties who sit on committees that deal with federal budgets and agencies.

https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=P04

And this was interesting:

he limited nature of the disclosure grew out of a 1948 Supreme Court decision that, in the particular matter then before the court, spared unions and companies from disclosing the costs of political communications with their members or employees.

Who knew the deck was stacked against Republicans?