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Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

It doesnt matter what "you see" or what you want to see you have to stick to the facts. It is a fact that the majority of people don't support gay marriage and that isn't an estimation, it is a fact.


You shouldn't rely on votes that took place a decade ago to gage opinions today. See the link below. Then there is the success of SSCM at the ballot box where it won at the polls in 4 states (Maine, Maryland, Washington, and Minnesota) in the 2012 elections.

Times change.


Gay and Lesbian Rights | Gallup Historical Trends



>>>>
 
well as people always say we live in a republic so the majority rules and I could see a majority of people saying that if it were deemed unconstitutional that they would be more willing to give up there rights as heterosexual couples then have an unbalanced system.

Only a tiny minority wants to give up marriage benefits. Far more people support expanding those benefits. Your only argument against same-sex marriage is that some people get married for reasons other than love? That's pathetic. You know it's a pathetic argument, but you made it anyway. This shows just how desperate the social conservatives are.
 
Yup me as a heterosexual male am willing as YOU said again I repeat YOU SAID. I am willing to give up MY RIGHTS to testify against my spouse, Medical power of attorney so on and so forth so that YOU may be equal I am sacrificing because you argument is I have rights that YOU dont and I AM willing to give up the rights I HAVE to make sure YOU ARE EQUAL.

Oh how very noble of you. A true hero, right here. :lamo
 
Not sure I agree. It can be stated more narrowly. But objection to a personal choice, which a mate is, and who we live is big in that choice here, has to have more behind it than a group of people don't like it. There has to be a valid reason to oppose it. Goes for anything you can list (such a list is usual used to taint homosexuals).

However what you just said is a completely different argument than "Same Sex Marriage should be legal because I should have the right to marry the person I love"

Suggesting "You have to have a valid reason to deny people the ability to be married" is an ENTIRELY different argument.

But the specific argument that it should be legal because people should be able to marry the person they love is an incredibly poor argument and does provide a LEGITIMATE avenue to suggest that said argument applies to the other forms most often tied to homosexuality in this instance.

Do I think that often those doing so are using it to taint homosexuals? Absolutely. But by using such a poor argument, and one that LEGITIMATELY allows for such comparisons, then you invite that taint into the discussion.
 
However what you just said is a completely different argument than "Same Sex Marriage should be legal because I should have the right to marry the person I love"

Suggesting "You have to have a valid reason to deny people the ability to be married" is an ENTIRELY different argument.

But the specific argument that it should be legal because people should be able to marry the person they love is an incredibly poor argument and does provide a LEGITIMATE avenue to suggest that said argument applies to the other forms most often tied to homosexuality in this instance.

Do I think that often those doing so are using it to taint homosexuals? Absolutely. But by using such a poor argument, and one that LEGITIMATELY allows for such comparisons, then you invite that taint into the discussion.

I think it is part of the same argument. I have the right unless you have a valid reason to deny it.
 
I think it is part of the same argument. I have the right unless you have a valid reason to deny it.

If you don't make the argument then it's not part of the same argument. It CAN be part of the same argument, but it's not unless that's indicated by the person making said argument.

"I have a right to marry who I love"

and

"I have a right to marry who I love unless you have a constitutionally valid reason to deny it"

are two DIFFERENT arguments. One has a caveat, one doesn't. One is poor and does allow for people to come back with those other types of marriages, one makes it far more difficult to try and do such.
 
It doesnt matter what "you see" or what you want to see you have to stick to the facts. It is a fact that the majority of people don't support gay marriage and that isn't an estimation, it is a fact.

Actually the facts are that the vast majority of people support marriage, and at least a slight majority of people want same sex couples to be treated equally, aka being allowed to marry legally.

Marriage | Gallup Historical Trends

Only complete idiots want to remove the government from marriage altogether and that is only a knee-jerk reaction to being told that denying same sex couples the right to marry is wrong and unconstitutional. If it even made it through, it wouldn't last. The people would realize quickly why the government is required to recognize your marriages when the people start seeing major issues with not being considered legally married by the state. The first time a judge rules in favor of a blood relative over a mate/partner because the state does not recognize the legal relationship established between them and the mother/father, sister/brother has legal precedent when it comes to a legal decision or some sort of money or other property, or the first time an employee is denied time off, particularly by a state agency to go to their mates'/partners' relative's funeral because they no longer fall under the Family Leave Act, they will realize how stupid they were.
 
If you don't make the argument then it's not part of the same argument. It CAN be part of the same argument, but it's not unless that's indicated by the person making said argument.

"I have a right to marry who I love"

and

"I have a right to marry who I love unless you have a constitutionally valid reason to deny it"

are two DIFFERENT arguments. One has a caveat, one doesn't. One is poor and does allow for people to come back with those other types of marriages, one makes it far more difficult to try and do such.

While I think that may be an example of being too technical, I certainly can't disagree.
 
the poll provided clearly says that the people in support of gay marriage are Liberals young people as well as nonreligious it says it right in your survey. Also people argue if America was a Christian founded Country... it is obvious that it was a founded as a Christian nation but non the less people will argue it so even if you deny that it is undeniable that is was Religiously founded.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.


Tell me a "NONreligious" group that believes in a creator?

if there is none which there cant be for obvious reasons then you apply simple logic and say that the founding father were religious and based off of that and knowing even with your numbers that religious people are not Pro homosexual marriage you can also know that our founding fathers would have been on that same boat.
 
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the poll provided clearly says that the people in support of gay marriage are Liberals young people as well as nonreligious it says it right in your survey. Also people argue if America was a Christian founded Country... it is obvious that it was a founded as a Christian nation but non the less people will argue it so even if you deny that it is undeniable that is was Religiously founded.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.


Tell me a "NONreligious" group that believes in a creator?

if there is none which there cant be for obvious reasons then you apply simple logic and say that the founding father were religious and based off of that and knowing even with your numbers that religious people are not Pro homosexual marriage you can also know that our founding fathers would have been on that same boat.

Learn you history bud.

Deism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Deism (Listeni/ˈdiː.ɪzəm/[1][2] or /ˈdeɪ.ɪzəm/) is the belief that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of a Creator, accompanied with the rejection of revelation and authority as a source of religious knowledge.[3][4][5][6][7] Deism gained prominence in the 17th and 18th centuries during the Age of Enlightenment—especially in Britain, France, Germany, and the United States—among intellectuals raised as Christians who believed in one god, but found fault with organized religion and did not believe in supernatural events such as miracles, the inerrancy of scriptures, or the Trinity.[8]

Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin were deists.
 
It doesnt matter what "you see" or what you want to see you have to stick to the facts. It is a fact that the majority of people don't support gay marriage and that isn't an estimation, it is a fact.

Actually, the FACT is that the majority of people support SSM. All polls show this. You have been corrected. Please update your files.
 
Alright Kiddo, you have to have a bit of logic...

can you be a "deist" without being religious? just because he was a deist doesn't mean he wasn't religious.

Uh huh?

Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Jefferson Bible, or The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth as it is formally titled, was a book constructed by Thomas Jefferson in the latter years of his life by cutting and pasting with a razor and glue numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus. Jefferson's condensed composition is especially notable for its exclusion of all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels which contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages indicating Jesus was divine.
 
Actually, the FACT is that the majority of people support SSM. All polls show this. You have been corrected. Please update your files.

Quinnipiac University Poll. April 25-29, 2013. N=1,471 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 2.6.


.

"In general, do you support or oppose same-sex marriage?"


.
Support Oppose Unsure
% % %


4/25-29/13
45 47 8


3/26 - 4/1/13
50 41 9


2/27 - 3/4/13
47 43 10


11/28 - 12/3/12
48 46 7


7/8-13/08
36 55 9


From Civil Rights

says that people don't support gay marriage so you should check your statement to make sure they are true before you lose your credibility.
 
It doesnt matter what "you see" or what you want to see you have to stick to the facts. It is a fact that the majority of people don't support gay marriage and that isn't an estimation, it is a fact.

An interesting thing about facts is that they can easily be verified or disputed. In this case the evidence is not on your side.

Civil Rights
55% support same sex marriage.

National (US) Poll - October 4, 2013 - U.S. Catholics Back Pope On Ch | Quinnipiac University Connecticut
56% support same sex marriage.

In U.S., 52% Back Law to Legalize Gay Marriage in 50 States
52% support same sex marriage.

New Poll: Marriage Equality Support at Record High in Wake of SCOTUS Ruling :: EDGE Boston
55% support same sex marriage.

Gay Rights Poll: ABC News, Washington Post Survey Finds Support For Same-Sex Marriage, Ending Boy Scout Ban
51% support same sex marriage.
 
Quinnipiac University Poll. April 25-29, 2013. N=1,471 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 2.6.


.

"In general, do you support or oppose same-sex marriage?"


.
Support Oppose Unsure
% % %


4/25-29/13
45 47 8


3/26 - 4/1/13
50 41 9


2/27 - 3/4/13
47 43 10


11/28 - 12/3/12
48 46 7


7/8-13/08
36 55 9


From Civil Rights

says that people don't support gay marriage so you should check your statement to make sure they are true before you lose your credibility.

Out of dozens of different poll numbers, the best you could do is grab one set from a specific span of days that had a spread that was well within the margin of error?
 
you are absolutely right and can you be a deist and also be religious?

Fine with me. If you are comfortable calling someone who rejected all the supernatural elements and miracles of the Bible, a "religious" person then I have no problem with it.
 
Quinnipiac University Poll. April 25-29, 2013. N=1,471 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 2.6.


.

"In general, do you support or oppose same-sex marriage?"


.
Support Oppose Unsure
% % %


4/25-29/13
45 47 8


3/26 - 4/1/13
50 41 9


2/27 - 3/4/13
47 43 10


11/28 - 12/3/12
48 46 7


7/8-13/08
36 55 9


From Civil Rights

says that people don't support gay marriage so you should check your statement to make sure they are true before you lose your credibility.

Scores of polls and you find ONE that has ONE span of a few days where the numbers are within the span of percentage of error. Your statement was false. I think you need to check YOUR credibility on this issue.
 
Fine with me. If you are comfortable calling someone who rejected all the supernatural elements and miracles of the Bible, a "religious" person then I have no problem with it.

Well then it stands to reason then... that Benjamin Franklin along with the founding fathers were religious (religious not meaning "christian" but meaning a spiritual belief in a supreme being) and again the poll shows that nearly everyone who is "religious" disagrees with homosexual marriage. So seeing that most if not ALL the founding fathers were religious... they would have not voted for same sex marriage.
 
Scores of polls and you find ONE that has ONE span of a few days where the numbers are within the span of percentage of error. Your statement was false. I think you need to check YOUR credibility on this issue.

you don't have to get upset about me questioning your credibility, i simply saying check before you speak (type?) you said "ALL" when every survey out there in within the (as you said) margin of error. But however since this one is a few percentages in the opposite direction now you bring up the margin of error point. I find that very interesting for a person with a high amount of integrity, go from so sure to margin of error and going for ALL surveys to most. I will definitly say that ALL surverys are within the margin of error as a whole.
 
Judges hold way more power than the state congress or governor.

The same goes for the Federal government with the SCOTUS over the congress and president.
 
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the poll provided clearly says that the people in support of gay marriage are Liberals young people as well as nonreligious it says it right in your survey. Also people argue if America was a Christian founded Country... it is obvious that it was a founded as a Christian nation but non the less people will argue it so even if you deny that it is undeniable that is was Religiously founded.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.


Tell me a "NONreligious" group that believes in a creator?

if there is none which there cant be for obvious reasons then you apply simple logic and say that the founding father were religious and based off of that and knowing even with your numbers that religious people are not Pro homosexual marriage you can also know that our founding fathers would have been on that same boat.

who were you talking to?
 
Well then it stands to reason then... that Benjamin Franklin along with the founding fathers were religious (religious not meaning "christian" but meaning a spiritual belief in a supreme being) and again the poll shows that nearly everyone who is "religious" disagrees with homosexual marriage. So seeing that most if not ALL the founding fathers were religious... they would have not voted for same sex marriage.

they would have not voted for letting women vote they certainly did not all condemn slavery the founding fathers are not right because their the founding fathers

they did not set up a government where people had to vote as they would

so what's it mater?
 
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