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Tenn. politicians threaten to kill VW incentives if UAW wins election

Isn't "don't form a Union or else" just as much a free speech issue? It might be selfish but don't politicians in power have as much right to be negative as those seeking power?

That would be picking winners and losers though, right? Isnt that one of those things the right carries on about?

Right to work in tenn. Means its just about politics. Specifically trying to hamstring the fundraising/campaigning that unions bring to bear.

The crime they accuse the President of in the IRS "scandal".
 
Why should Tennessee taxpayers be giving anything for this anyway?

Well that's part of why the plant is there is the subsidies and so on. If not for those, the plant may be somewhere else.

Basically, the government IS involved in this. I'm not sure why the GOP has no problems with the government colluding with private business, but when the regular joes (aka voters) want to have someone on their side.....well, I know why, but there's no moral ground to stand on. It's just politics.
 
It is in the public's best interest. It also happens to be in the best interest of their elections given the near 100% Democrat support that unions shovel into local and state elections.

It's not like there's no money being shoveled in to the GOP. Remember Citizens United? It basically means that there's unlimited money pouring into these elections on both sides, and unions play by the same rules. To paraphrase Mitt, "Unions are people, my friend."
 
Why would they care one way or the other? Am I missing something?

Union members tend to vote Democrat because the Republicans have been consistently anti-union for the last few decades.
 
It's not like there's no money being shoveled in to the GOP. Remember Citizens United? It basically means that there's unlimited money pouring into these elections on both sides, and unions play by the same rules. To paraphrase Mitt, "Unions are people, my friend."

I never said they weren't entitled to shovel money into whatever election they wanted to shovel money into. I was simply stating the fact that the unions shovel almost 100% of their money into DNC campaigns. Sangha's rage over the Tennessee Republican's decision to not invite UAW to suck at the Tennessee teat is just silly. I don't think he really realizes how bad he makes Democrats look when criticizing what Tennessee Republicans almost did given that what they almost did is actually what Democrats almost always do..
 
Apparently there is no one here who works for VW in Tenn; many seem to be assuming the employees want a Union and are being deterred.

News of this has been sparse for the last year.. from all involved. After watching this for awhile it is my impression that a deal was struck between VW, German Unions, and the UAW to install a union at the Tenn, plant.... The rub is that the employees do not or may not want any Union involvement and are happy with the existing situation.. I believe the employs voted against the Union prior to now... ( hmmm, need to re-verify that somehow ). Coercion may be taking place by the Union and VW (to placate German Unions).

As hard as it might be to conceive... The state politburo might be trying to represent the constituency ??

Again, info on this has been filtered through VW and is infrequent at best.

Another political diversion from the bigger problems at hand.

Carry on...

Thom Paine
 
VW has German style corporate management, in which they actually incorporate worker input in the decision process (and I mean for real, not just the usual corporate BS), and have no problem with unions. The Tennessee government is interfering with a situation where both unions and management are on the same page. Talk about the nanny state.

I don't like corporations getting special tax privileges in general for exactly this reason. All auto companies in Tennessee should be using the same tax forms. Letting the government arbitrarily select "winners" to be subsidized is incredibly prone to abuse. It also give the government unacceptable influence where they can tell businesses what to do in situations where they have no legal right.

Well then I am sure that when the Tennessee deal falls through Volkswagen will run to a blue union state rather than Mexico, right?
 
They aren't interfering with those rights one bit and you know it. Nice straw fake argument for your hack agenda.

Yes they are. Some of the money given to the company may be given to workers as pay, but the workers will decide whether to use a portion of their salaries to support a union, and if they become unionized, the members of the union decide which politicians to support through a democratic process. The politicians are using threats to prevent the workers from democratically deciding how to spend the union dues that come out of their own pockets.
 
Ohh Tenn the state... I thought ten politicians threatened as in the number XD
 
They have 2 reasons to care.

1. Politically the UAW is a Democratic fundraising organization. So Republicans would be voting to finance a huge fund raising and manpower campaign against them.....

All Union dues, including the funds used for campaigning, would come from the worker's earnings, not the government subsidy.
 
Yeah, if only the UAW donated more to Republicans this deal might be going through. :roll:
Don't you have enough money rolling in from the Koch brothers and their secret sources.
You're already outspending DEMs 10-1 so far and still this.

What you want the Republicans in Tennessee to do is akin to the Wisconsin
State Workers Union donating money to the Scott Walker campaign fund. :lamo
You are forgetting how Police and Fire Unions backed Walker during that recall.
They sure regret that now .
 
Union dues go to Democratic candidates and officials. Members don't have a say on that.

...

Unions have a representational democratic process for making policy decisions, the members do have a say on that. There are many more effective ways to insure that the company is likely to be successful.
 
That would be picking winners and losers though, right? Isnt that one of those things the right carries on about?

Right to work in tenn. Means its just about politics. Specifically trying to hamstring the fundraising/campaigning that unions bring to bear.

The crime they accuse the President of in the IRS "scandal".

Union members tend to vote Democrat because the Republicans have been consistently anti-union for the last few decades.

Yes, we've established that this is political. The question is now whether this is normal and natural based on the structure of our 2 party political system. Do politicians have the right to act in their own self-interests or must they only do "what's best for the people"?
 
Yes, we've established that this is political. The question is now whether this is normal and natural based on the structure of our 2 party political system. Do politicians have the right to act in their own self-interests or must they only do "what's best for the people"?

Its a function of treating parties like sports teams instead of employees.

We dont turn on "our" side when they **** up. We find something the other side did thats similar ebough to let us say "They do it too!"

An IRS "scandal" thread got interesting when it became clear some of us want unions steipped of anonymity for donors too. Without the "unions get to keep their donors secret" argument, there wasnt much left for them to say.
 
Don't you have enough money rolling in from the Koch brothers and their secret sources.
You're already outspending DEMs 10-1 so far and still this.

2014 Election stats via OpenSecrets.org

Individual donators: 4 of top 5 are Democrat

527 Organizations: 9 or the top 12 are Democrat

Top Individual Spender: Michael Bloomberg tops the list and spends 100% of his money on Democrats and Democrat causes.

Top 11 Democrat PACS: $8,355,856.00

Top 11 Republican PACS: $7,957,692.00

PAC breakdown has Dems leading in 2 of the last 3 election cycles and Republicans never leading by 10-1:

PAC.jpg

Democrats have a slight cash advantage in Senate elections in 2014 so far, and Republicans lead in the House.

Conclusion: Stop griping about made-up bull crap.


You are forgetting how Police and Fire Unions backed Walker during that recall.
They sure regret that now .

Not really. Walker has gone of record that he is not pushing any expansion of Act 10 and supports the unionization of safety personnel. His comments recently were simply the honest assessment that some in the legislature might try to expand Act 10 in the future since the end result of Act 10 were very positive for Wisconsin.
 
I never said they weren't entitled to shovel money into whatever election they wanted to shovel money into. I was simply stating the fact that the unions shovel almost 100% of their money into DNC campaigns. Sangha's rage over the Tennessee Republican's decision to not invite UAW to suck at the Tennessee teat is just silly. I don't think he really realizes how bad he makes Democrats look when criticizing what Tennessee Republicans almost did given that what they almost did is actually what Democrats almost always do..

I only contend the "best for their elections" part. If it's about the money being shoveled into elections, I'm sure the GOP has no problem countering where the Union money goes. Besides which, none of the Union dues come from state coffers except very indirectly.
 
Yes, we've established that this is political. The question is now whether this is normal and natural based on the structure of our 2 party political system. Do politicians have the right to act in their own self-interests or must they only do "what's best for the people"?

I'm not sure they can tell the difference. A true believer thinks that what's in the best interest of the people is their party winning. Kind of like how things were rationalized in the USSR - "The party is the workers, therefore what's good for the party is good for the workers."
 
Yes, we've established that this is political. The question is now whether this is normal and natural based on the structure of our 2 party political system. Do politicians have the right to act in their own self-interests or must they only do "what's best for the people"?

It is pretty normal and natural, but it is sleazy, undemocratic and unacceptable. Too bad the conservatives are so blinded by their corporate propaganda induced union hatred they can't see what a bad precedent this sets.
 
You just denied the FACT that Police and Fire Unions absolutely DID support Walker in his recall.
See ya .

HAHAHA! No I didn't. I said they are not really regretting it and then went on the explain why.

Man, I actual laughed out loud when I read your foot stomping response.
 
I only contend the "best for their elections" part. If it's about the money being shoveled into elections, I'm sure the GOP has no problem countering where the Union money goes. Besides which, none of the Union dues come from state coffers except very indirectly.

I'm sure they do have counters to the Union money. That doesn't mean they should be in the business of handing millions more to the UAW, though.
 
I'm sure they do have counters to the Union money. That doesn't mean they should be in the business of handing millions more to the UAW, though.

The workers would be the ones paying union dues, not the company, not the state.
 
The workers would be the ones paying union dues, not the company, not the state.

Tennessee Republicans approve money to VW so that they can offset the labor cost making it possible for VW to move their plant to Tennessee --> That money goes to help pay employee salaries --> money is taken out of employee salaries to pay UAW dues --> money is taken out of UAW dues to help fund DNC candidates in Tennessee.

It really isn't a terribly complicated money trail.
 
No, I don't think I'm stupid but I don't know everything either. Because I'm not partisan, I sometimes have to ask questions to settle things in my mind.

To you, this is very clear. To me, there are 2 sides to the argument.

Sure, it should be about the best result for the citizens. But our country isn't structured that way. So, examining reality is required. Maybe you think your Clinton example can be applied here but there (in my view) some other subtleties. That's why we are here - to discuss and examine. Otherwise, we lose the debate element that is the basis for this board.

As I've said before, it's too bad we are not a Meritocracy. Then we would have no issues like this. But we aren't, so it gets complicated.

I don't know everything either. For example, I can't figure how this is unclear to you

Yes, there are two sides to every story (actually, not true) but sometimes one side is still clearly the more sensible one.

Our political system is designed to force politicians to do what is best for its' constituents. I think you're ignoring the subtleties by thinking that because partisan interests often do play a role in the positions that politicians take we should not even consider the role it took in this particular instance. Because these partisan interests are so pervasive and corrosive to the political process, IMO we must think about how it has affected every decision our politicians make and try to reduce it. Condoning a decision that is based solely on partisan interests simply because such interests are pervasive is poor judgement.
 
Well first, lower operational costs ARE what's best for VW.

And there you go again, justifying the Nanny State Govt when it interferes with free enterprise!

And another bogus GOP "principle" gets thrown under the bus
 
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