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Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

Phys251 said:
How do you know better than the victim herself does? Were you there? Did you see what happened? No? Then kindly be quiet and let her talk.
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Give us some examples of physical coercion on an adult female that don't involve threats, force or violence.
 
Goshin said:
I will not be lectured as if I were ignorant thank you. I know perfectly well what informed consent is. That isn't even under question.
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Then let's hear the definition, if you are so confident about it!

The question is this one person making contradictory statements about physical coercion that do not make sense in context.

I have not asserted that she is lying, nor have I asserted that she was not raped. I have simply asked how in the hell can there be PHYSICAL coercion as she claimed, when she also asserted he did not pin her or threaten violence (or presumably USE violence), yet asserts there was physical coercion.

I'm asking for a phrase that she used in a self-contradictory way to be resolved and explained.
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Why don't you listen to her until she reaches a point where she is comfortable divulging that kind of information? Why would she want to reveal that when she knows she would have to deal with attitudes like yours?
 
Moderator's Warning:
Okay, folks, settle down. This is getting way too personal in some cases, with wild accusations bordering on personal attacks being thrown around. That stops, now. Be civil. Address the topic, no ad hominem attacks against other posters.
 
Cryptic said:
The schools where I live have Co-ed dormitories, though same sex (at least in theory) floors. The whole sexually liberated concept is only fuel for date rape or acquantiance (sp) rape situations.

Though these forms of rape will occur with same sex dorms, the amount of opportunities sky rockets if men have constant access to women's rooms. This is especially so as the women dont even have total control of their room: (Gee, why are you in my room? Because your roomate gave me permission and its her room to- Now, scoot over and have a drink...)
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I lived in a dorm like that. We all managed not to rape anyone. Its not that hard.
 
Phys251 said:
How do you know better than the victim herself does? Were you there? Did you see what happened? No? Then kindly be quiet and let her talk.
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So, if your wife says she's not in the mood for sex, and you start kissing her neck and rubbing her breasts, is that rape?
 
Jack Hays said:
"Yes, he was her boyfriend. No, he hadn't pinned her down, or threatened violence. But Espinosa insists that he coerced her, psychologically and physically, into having sex against her will for most of their three-year relationship."

Hmmm. I'd buy rape once, maybe even twice. After that she's complicit.

The rape charge reminds me of the police investigation of Masaryk's death after the Communist takeover in Czechoslovakia in 1948. His body was found on the street bound and gagged after a fall from an upper story window. Police determined the death was a suicide.:peace
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Complicit in her own rape. Well done, you have raised the bar on saying stupid ****.
 
Phys251 said:
How do you know better than the victim herself does? Were you there? Did you see what happened? No? Then kindly be quiet and let her talk.
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I'm just going by her own words. She herself says that he never used violence, threats or force, yet he raped her. It's a stunning accusation.
 
ChrisL said:
Give us some examples of physical coercion on an adult female that don't involve threats, force or violence.
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An incident that I referred to in an earlier post fits this bill perfectly, but (1) it is way too NSFW to reproduce here, and (2) I do not trust you or anyone else on this thread, except for opendebate and maybe one other, to react appropriately to it.

Now it's time you establish YOUR credibility and defend YOUR views. I want to see a definition of sexual consent from you.
 
Re: Ending Rape On Campus

Redress said:
Complicit in her own rape. Well done, you have raised the bar on saying stupid ****.
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I'll rephrase if you need it spelled out. After the second instance it's no longer rape if she stayed in the relationship voluntarily.:peace
 
Soupnazi630 said:
As I stated no one disagree's with you that no equals no.

Coercion however is a much more complex word.

I once had a conversation with someone who insisted and military recruiters coerce people into enlisting in the military. This is an absurd position since a recruiter only sells the military much like a car salesman might try to sell you a car whether it is right for you or not.

If someone insists that other wise benign actions are coercion then there is no changing their mind. Most reasonble people would have to hear the details to judge whether it was really coercion or not. For example if an employer offers a promotion in exchange for sex is it blackmail? Of course it is. Is it sexual harrassment? Of couse it is.
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I don't disagree at all.

Is it coercion? Kind of doubtful.
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Yes, kind of doubtful but still possible. You would need more details to make that determination. Again, while unlikely not impossible.
 
Phys251 said:
An incident that I referred to in an earlier post fits this bill perfectly, but (1) it is way too NSFW to reproduce here, and (2) I do not trust you or anyone else on this thread, except for opendebate and maybe one other, to react appropriately to it.

Now it's time you establish YOUR credibility and defend YOUR views. I want to see a definition of sexual consent from you.
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Good Lord, what incident is that? Please stop playing games. There are ways you can word things.
 
Ahh, finally some additional voices of reason are starting to show up and call out the blatant misogyny on this thread.
 
Re: Ending Rape On Campus

Jack Hays said:
I'll rephrase if you need it spelled out. After the second instance it's no longer rape.:peace
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Well that is a novel definition of rape...
 
ChrisL said:
Good Lord, what incident is that? Please stop playing games. There are ways you can word things.
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You are out of your mind if you think I am going to divulge ANY info about that. You have not established any credibility, let alone trust, on the matter of rape and sexual assault.
 
Phys251 said:
An incident that I referred to in an earlier post fits this bill perfectly, but (1) it is way too NSFW to reproduce here, and (2) I do not trust you or anyone else on this thread, except for opendebate and maybe one other, to react appropriately to it.

Now it's time you establish YOUR credibility and defend YOUR views. I want to see a definition of sexual consent from you.
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Absolutely not. You haven't answered any of my questions yet.
 
Re: Ending Rape On Campus

Jack Hays said:
I'll rephrase if you need it spelled out. After the second instance it's no longer rape if she stayed in the relationship voluntarily.:peace
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Excuse me?? You, sir, just condoned rape. If you are in a relationship, I hope your partner sees this post so that she or he can know to run for the hills and never look back.
 
ChrisL said:
So . . . if your boyfriend says to you, "if you don't give me a blow job, I'm going to leave you" and you do it, but then he leaves you anyway, is that a form of rape?
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My point is, you don't know the details of what she is calling psychological and physical coercion. So why dismiss her claims so easily?
 
Phys251 said:
You are out of your mind if you think I am going to divulge ANY info about that. You have not established any credibility, let alone trust, on the matter of rape and sexual assault.
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ROFL! That's because you don't have information to divulge. :lamo I think that much is obvious to everyone. NSFW?! Give me a break.
 
instagramsci said:
Emotional manipulation is coercion. When coercion is used to convince a person to have sex or engage in sexual activities when s/he does not want to do so, this is sexual assault.
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I'm pretty disgusted by people who blame rape victims for being victimized, but it appears from the article that Espinosa is stretching the definition of rape past the breaking point, which harms the credibility of real victims. Unless we are missing something, as an adult Espinosa had the ability and reponsibility to stand up for herself diring the three year relationship. Also one can't withdraw consent after the fact. Perhaps there is more to the story, so we should not be too certain abot the situation, but that is how it seems.
 
I'm with ChrisL here, boyfriend may have been a cad and abusive, but if she stayed in the relationship for 3 years because she was not self aware enough to stand up for herself and leave it, that does not throw his actions over into the criminal rape category. I don't see where the university has any responsibility in the case, it was between two individuals until a complaint is brought. The lesson that needs to be learned is by the young lady; stand up for yourself, if you are not comfortable with a situation then you need to get yourself out of it. At the very least call a halt and discuss what's going on. Also, if the young man does not want to drive away women, he could learn to be more respectful.
 
Re: Ending Rape On Campus

Phys251 said:
Excuse me?? You, sir, just condoned rape. If you are in a relationship, I hope your partner sees this post so that she or he can know to run for the hills and never look back.
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Been married 45 years, thank you. And no, I did not condone rape, so knock off the phony PC police routine. Once is certainly rape. Twice might be rape. If she stays in the relationship after that she really can't claim that.:peace
 
opendebate said:
My point is, you don't know the details of what she is calling psychological and physical coercion. So why dismiss her claims so easily?
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Because an adult female is not considered "coerced" into sex unless there is some level of force/threats of violence involved. Just because you had sex with someone and regret it doesn't mean it's rape. If the female in question was a minor, it would be different, but adults are responsible for their own actions.
 
Re: Ending Rape On Campus

Jack Hays said:
I'll rephrase if you need it spelled out. After the second instance it's no longer rape if she stayed in the relationship voluntarily.:peace
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You are implying that you have a "right" to sex once someone has done it with you. You never have a "right" to sex. If only one person consents, it doesn't matter how many times you've done it already, it's rape.
 
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