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Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

In these situations, I think usually one of several things happens, the woman either ends up leaving him because she just wises up, he beats her so badly that she is hospitalized or one of the children is harmed, OR the worse case scenario is that he kills her.



My biggest issue in this case is where she says he did not threaten or force her, but rather he was persistent and perhaps "bugged" her for sex, and she stated that she would eventually "give in" and THAT is not rape.

Yes on both counts-the violence often escalates (the guy in an abusive relationship has issues), and not to discount her experience-but Ive never had a girlfriend I wasn't "bugging" for sex.
 
Well, if they just got rid of all the men they'd get rid of the problem. My understanding is that they are well on their way toward doing just that.

No worries, we'll always need someone to lift heavy things and be willing to get grease under their fingernails fixing our cars.
 
Reading between the lines of the OP's article, my guess is that Joanna repeatedly made the mistake of giving in to her BF whenever he pressured her into having sex. That obvisously left her feeling ashamed, weak and used. She tried the sexual harrassment angle which the University is required to investigate under Title IX guidelines, but that didn't work out. She then went to the police department and that's where I'm a little confused, especialy reading some of the comments in this thread. Did she actually try to press charges for rape/sexual assault or sexual harrassment/misconduct? Either way, she was told that her case would be "very difficult to prove" which in cop speak pretty much means "zero chance, forget about it".

If she filed rape charges, I must say I agree with most people here. What happened to her was not rape. From what I've been able to find out, according to Texas law, rape is covered by sexual assault laws and none of the many definitions under that umbrella fit what happened to her. If she filed sexual harrassment charges, the cops are right and she probably had next to no case.

The way I understand the poorly worded article, it seems that she was going with sexual harrassment and not sexual assault. If that's the case, I'm not really clear on what her story is doing in an article about campus rape. Hers is not a rape issue at all.
 
Poor Espinosa. Isn't ironic how some women on the left have fought for decades for "control over their own bodies", but when it comes down to actually managing that control, people like Espinosa and Sandra Fluke need someone else to step in and actually manage it for them.

Oh, it's moments like this when I would love to hear Judge Judy weigh in.
 
I'm not. I hate when women act like victims...it makes us all look bad. It makes it harder to believe those truly abused or raped.

I have little respect for a woman staying 3 yrs in an abusive relationship....she had no children to protect...she was complicit IMO (without more info). She makes us all look weak and desperate.

I like I said earlier, I speak from experience and know the signs. I even know men who thought they could do the same.

Sorry if I over-generalized.
 
Since there were no threats, violence or force used, maybe he hypnotized her to stay with him for 3 years and have sex with him against her will. The guy was like Svengali, and she had no control over her own body.

Interesting analogy, but a little off the wall. At this point, we don't know much about this case, but Svengali and Trilby are a work of fiction, and not real life, and unless David Copperfield is the "rapist" in this case, not too believable, IMO. We shall see.
 
Interesting analogy, but a little off the wall. At this point, we don't know much about this case, but Svengali and Trilby are a work of fiction, and not real life, and unless David Copperfield is the "rapist" in this case, not too believable, IMO. We shall see.

Oh I know, I was being sarcastic. :)
 
I like I said earlier, I speak from experience and know the signs. I even know men who thought they could do the same.

Sorry if I over-generalized.

I was pretty much agreeing with you.
 
I'm pro-campus rape. I think it's good for the economy.

PROVE ME WRONG!
 
Physical coercion is force. She said she was physically coerced, ergo she said she was forced.

It sounds like from her description though that the "physical coercion" was basically him rubbing the right spots or nibbling her ears or something like that, making her "feel good" til she gave into sex. He never threatened violence (and it sounded like she never felt threatened by him). In fact, it sounds very little different than some things I have experienced. Don't feel like doing it at the time, but someone (now my husband) is able to get me in the mood by simply hitting the right spots. That isn't rape. Especially if she allowed it to happen many times without saying anything about it It is very little different than how most girls lose their virginity, "he talked me into it". And some women/girls (not saying all or even most, just some) actually use that "reluctance" to help themselves get into the mood. It isn't right to label these cases as rape without knowing the guy's intent. As far as we know, he really didn't know that she didn't want it or wasn't willing to have sex with him since she kept agreeing to have sex with him despite not threatening her at all, according to her.
 
It sounds like from her description though that the "physical coercion" was basically him rubbing the right spots or nibbling her ears or something like that, making her "feel good" til she gave into sex. He never threatened violence (and it sounded like she never felt threatened by him). In fact, it sounds very little different than some things I have experienced. Don't feel like doing it at the time, but someone (now my husband) is able to get me in the mood by simply hitting the right spots.

what man or woman isn't guilty of that?
 
I'm sorry for your sisters but IMO, rape can not be blamed on the victim. In domestic abuse....there is an element of complicity. Unless you are a prisoner, you owe it to yourself and any other women to get out.

Curiously, this woman never availed herself of any help--and it IS available on every campus--at her university for three years, but it took her only one month to decide to litigate against the university.
 
Ending rape on campus
Student-led activists movement fights to end rape on campus - CNN.com

Well. I don't know exactly how this makes me feel. I read through the entire article and it is nice to see action. There is a problem and something needs to be done. For that I am happy.

But one of those incidents does not fit in with the rest. Espinosa's. I don't understand how that is rape? Maybe I misread it. But it just struck me somewhere as...odd. And. Maybe. A little bit off. Everyone else can someone explain that to me?

I agree, her story is odd. He never held her down or threatened violence, he was simply persistent in wanting sex (which every guy everywhere is). The fact that she stayed with him for 3 years tells me she wasn't all that upset about what was happening.

And why should it be the university's job to deal with it anyway? That's what the police are for. The part that really bothers me though, is below.

The 19-page letter reminded schools that under Title IX, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex, colleges and universities must apply a "preponderance of evidence" standard to reviewing rape cases, which means they must operate under the assumption that "more likely than not that sexual violence occurred."

The school has to investigate based on the assumption that every sexual assault allegation is true? What happened to innocent until proven guilty?
 
It sounds like from her description though that the "physical coercion" was basically him rubbing the right spots or nibbling her ears or something like that, making her "feel good" til she gave into sex. He never threatened violence (and it sounded like she never felt threatened by him).

If that's rape then pretty much every sexually active man in America is going to prison.
 
Since the cops nor the administration officials found anything, I'm going with some sort of retaliation for hurt feelings.

There is a huge problem with date rape, horrible relationships of all sorts etc. but, this sort of whining, vanity article does nothing to help the matter.

Well, colleges are notorious for covering up rape scandals. Just look at Sandusky and how some people knew what was going on, but didn't say anything. (Penn State's Conspiracy of Sandusky Silence and Cover-Up Proven Via Emails : Outkick The Coverage)
 
Well, colleges are notorious for covering up rape scandals. Just look at Sandusky and how some people knew what was going on, but didn't say anything. (Penn State's Conspiracy of Sandusky Silence and Cover-Up Proven Via Emails : Outkick The Coverage)

Or notoriously overreact to rape accusations, such as the Duke Lacrosse case. There seem to be two extremes that colleges take, either they cover up something (but that is generally done for specific people rather than random students), or they (more often) overreact to accusations that really aren't worth the attention because they are either false or there is not really enough evidence to do anything about.
 
Emotional manipulation is coercion. When coercion is used to convince a person to have sex or engage in sexual activities when s/he does not want to do so, this is sexual assault.



That is a dangerous standard. What constitutes emotional manipulation? Saying "you won't have sex with me, you don't love me, I'm leaving"? That could be considered emotional manipulation. If it causes her to consent to sex when she really didn't want to, are you calling that criminal sexual assault??

If so, there's one hell of a lot of people ought to be in jail I guess, including quite a lot of women....
 
That is a dangerous standard. What constitutes emotional manipulation? Saying "you won't have sex with me, you don't love me, I'm leaving"? That could be considered emotional manipulation. If it causes her to consent to sex when she really didn't want to, are you calling that criminal sexual assault??

I heartily agree with this. While rape is a horrible crime, and should be harshly punished, I think the word rape (or sexual assault or any of the other terms for it) gets thrown around a little too freely these days.

Especially within the bounds of a relationship. There is a default assumption in most relationships is that the partners will be monogamous. The flip side of that is the assumption that they'll be having sex with each other. If a woman refuses to have sex with her boyfriend, but expects him not to have sex with anyone else either, I think it's perfectly acceptable to say "If we don't start having sex, I'm leaving you". That's not emotional blackmail, it's simply a statement of fact because she's not holding up her end of the bargain.
 
Thats an individual not a nationwide campaign

When multiple media outlets and pundits suddenly use the same type of terms to dishonestly discredit someone for advocating a position with the intention of getting their audience to mimic them, it is a campaign. I don't believe that numerous people across the country spontaneously determined that Fluke was a slut just from seeing her testimony.
 
This wasn't rape at all....

Yes, he was her boyfriend. No, he hadn't pinned her down, or threatened violence. But Espinosa insists that he coerced her, psychologically and physically, into having sex against her will for most of their three-year relationship. She resisted, told him no, pushed him away. More often than not, he persisted and she gave in "just to get it over with," she says.

So, this man was "abusive" in this woman's mind, but yet she stayed for three years?

It took five months for school administrators to reach the conclusion that Espinosa's complaint was "unsubstantiated."

So the authorities that she reported it to investigated, and concluded that her complaint was unsubstantiated...Now, CNN thinks this is rape? This is ridiculous....She had a boyfriend that she didn't want to have sex with, and rather than let him go, she stuck with the relationship, and then cries 'rape'.... This was a poor example chosen by CNN.
 
When multiple media outlets and pundits suddenly use the same type of terms to dishonestly discredit someone for advocating a position with the intention of getting their audience to mimic them, it is a campaign. I don't believe that numerous people across the country spontaneously determined that Fluke was a slut just from seeing her testimony.

Limbaugh is one guy and his listeners do not constitute a nationwide campaign
 
I think ending rape on campus is an excellent idea.

Ending rape would be like ending the sun.

I was raped by 3 girls when I as about 16 - that was weird.

If they had asked I would have been willing..... lol


It's odd how females and males mentally process the alleged rape.

Not that rape is a serious issue but... From an Anthropological perspective its extremely objective.
 
Ending rape on campus
Student-led activists movement fights to end rape on campus - CNN.com

Well. I don't know exactly how this makes me feel. I read through the entire article and it is nice to see action. There is a problem and something needs to be done. For that I am happy.

But one of those incidents does not fit in with the rest. Espinosa's. I don't understand how that is rape? Maybe I misread it. But it just struck me somewhere as...odd. And. Maybe. A little bit off. Everyone else can someone explain that to me?

I wish this would lead to positive changes but from what I have seen of the group it seems they just want people to criticize men for being pigs and to stop criticizing women for getting drunk. That's the sad thing about activists, they tend to make everything about culture and rhetoric and seem incapable of thinking of even the most basic instances of cause and effect. Like binge drinking on college campuses (by both sexes).
 
I wish this would lead to positive changes but from what I have seen of the group it seems they just want people to criticize men for being pigs and to stop criticizing women for getting drunk. That's the sad thing about activists, they tend to make everything about culture and rhetoric and seem incapable of thinking of even the most basic instances of cause and effect. Like binge drinking on college campuses (by both sexes).

A lot of common sense could be stressed on a more frequent basis for these tragedies to lessen in frequency. I agree with you. A lot of campuses could also take a tougher stance against underage drinking on campus or toward those establishments such as sorority and fraternity houses whose charters they recognize at their universities. At the same time, young women could exercise a higher degree of discretion when entering some of these places and drinking without concern from a bathtub full of flavored 90 proof rum while guys are throwing a mattress off a balcony saying..."Have a seat!" It is a horrible blight on our colleges that such events go on, but at the same time, it doesn't do anyone any good to point fingers after the event, when we could have been working on prevention from all sides in the first place.
 
A lot of common sense could be stressed on a more frequent basis for these tragedies to lessen in frequency. I agree with you. A lot of campuses could also take a tougher stance against underage drinking on campus or toward those establishments such as sorority and fraternity houses whose charters they recognize at their universities. At the same time, young women could exercise a higher degree of discretion when entering some of these places and drinking without concern from a bathtub full of flavored 90 proof rum while guys are throwing a mattress off a balcony saying..."Have a seat!" It is a horrible blight on our colleges that such events go on, but at the same time, it doesn't do anyone any good to point fingers after the event, when we could have been working on prevention from all sides in the first place.


Um, yeah....Dream on....College campi have always been run by admin that is heavily liberal leaning, you know the "live and let live" mentality....These kids go off to college as their first experience away from mom and dad, and in some cases get a little carried away. If there is something to prosecute then by all means go after it, but you will never see college campi run like military training camps.
 
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