Senate Republicans pitch ObamaCare alternative on eve of presidential address

j-mac · Jan 28, 2014

Seizing on the public's continued anxiety over the ObamaCare rollout, a trio of Republican senators on Monday unveiled a sweeping alternative proposal they say would gut the law's mandates and taxes while preserving consumer protections. Sens. Orrin Hatch, of Utah; Tom Coburn, of Oklahoma; and Richard Burr, of North Carolina, announced their plan one day before President Obama delivers his State of the Union address. It is his first such address since the launch of the state and federal health care exchanges.
The GOP proposal, dubbed the Patient Choice, Affordability, Responsibility and Empowerment Act, would repeal the president's marquee legislative achievement while instituting new reforms the senators say would give states and individuals more flexibility and purchasing power.
"Americans deserve a real alternative, and a way out," Coburn said.
Under the plan, insurances companies would not be able to impose lifetime limits on patients and would be required to allow dependent coverage up to the age of 26, as ObamaCare currently does. The Republican proposal would address the issue of pre-existing conditions by creating a new "continuous coverage" standard that would prevent any individual moving from one insurance plan to another from being denied on the basis of a pre-existing condition so long as that individual was continuously enrolled in a health plan.
The requirements on individuals to buy insurance, and on mid-sized and large businesses to provide it, would be repealed.
Senate aides describing the proposal acknowledged there's little chance of movement in the current Congress, where Democrats control the Senate and have resisted all Republican-led House attempts to repeal or chip away at ObamaCare. Still, the aides said they hope continued public dissatisfaction with the way the law is being implemented might shore up the efforts of Hatch, Coburn and Burr. A new Associated Press-GfK poll shows that while negative perceptions of the new exchanges have eased, 66 percent of Americans say the rollout is not going well.

Senate Republicans pitch ObamaCare alternative on eve of presidential address | Fox News

We have heard since this law was first proposed in 2009, that Republicans have no alternatives. To some extent that is true, not in that Repubs didn't offer anything, indeed there were several plans put forth only to be set out there and blocked by Harry Reid, and then denounced as 'nothing to offer'....Well, here we go with another one. Will democrats again be the party of disingenuousness, and lie that nothing was put forward? Here are some key points of the latest proposal...

To help consumers buying coverage on their own or through a small business, we take a range of steps.

- We allow small businesses to band together for coverage – like large corporations do – to negotiate a better deal for health coverage.
- We scrap all of ObamaCare’s rating changes and expensive mandates.
- We offer individuals who are uninsured, self-employed, or working at a small business a tax credit for health coverage to help them be able to buy a plan and keep it.

- We reform – but do not expand – the broken Medicaid entitlement. Too often Medicaid proves the axiom that access to a government health care program is not necessarily access to health care.

A Republican plan to replace ObamaCare, cover pre-existing conditions and lower costs | Fox News

It may not be a fix all, but it is a start, and a return to allowing American's to make the choice, not some government official....And further, it is something that American's want a return to, with nearly every measurement polled of the President's performance, from O-care, to trustworthiness Obama's, and democrat governance is coming in with approvals in the high 30s, and disapproval in the near 60% range....

Jetboogieman · Jan 28, 2014

j-mac said:
allowing American's to make the choice,

Between one company that will screw you... or another company that will screw you.

You know it's interesting that Americans concept of choice doesn't really hold up when you analyze it.

As an example they did a test on this.

In North America, you put all the pepsi products on a table and it was seen as a choice between the various ones.

Performed the same test in Eastern Europe and it wasn't seen as a choice because it's all Soda.

Put pepsi next to water, orange juice and tea and that was seen as a choice in Eastern Europe.

I think when it comes to HMO's, what Americans see as choice is very delusional when so many of these companies major aim is for you to pay higher premiums and get less care.

jmotivator · Jan 28, 2014

Jetboogieman said:
Between one company that will screw you... or another company that will screw you.

You know it's interesting that Americans concept of choice doesn't really hold up when you analyze it.

As an example they did a test on this.

In North America, you put all the pepsi products on a table and it was seen as a choice between the various ones.

Performed the same test in Eastern Europe and it wasn't seen as a choice because it's all Soda.

Put pepsi next to water, orange juice and tea and that was seen as a choice in Eastern Europe.

I think when it comes to HMO's, what Americans see as choice is very delusional when so many of these companies major aim is for you to pay higher premiums and get less care.

Better to have a government that screws you and gives you no choice?

ttwtt78640 · Jan 28, 2014

The hardest thing to mandate is not denying coverage (or having extremely high premium rates) based on pre-existing conditions, and this proposal skirts that by assuming that all are now covered. Note that this proposal seems to allow not initially accepting anyone, it simply says that "continuous coverage" cannot be denied to those switching companies/policies. The problem occurs as follows: Joe has a very cheap policy (or none at all), then Joe gets seriously ill and wishes to "upgrade" his coverage (likely only for the duration of his expensive treatment) - the insurance company must then accept Joe's request only if Joe had prior coverage.

Jetboogieman · Jan 28, 2014

jmotivator said:
Better to have a government that screws you and gives you no choice?

I have lots of choice.

This is the first time in my life I've had a long term relationship with healthcare in my area in Canada and for the most part (besides a couple of staff members, but that can happen anywhere) it's been pretty phenomenal, no one forces us to do anything and we have the choice of how we raise our newborn and the medical choices we make for him and ourselves.

The other month I had some trouble with my knee, I was out of the doctors office and in X-Ray in 20 minutes.

Can't argue with that.

No bureaucrats involved like you believe.

That's a myth.

j-mac · Jan 28, 2014

Jetboogieman said:
Between one company that will screw you... or another company that will screw you.

Simply your opinion. The fact is that an alternative is now out there, and American's are fed up with your heavy handed, more expensive mandates.

You know it's interesting that Americans concept of choice doesn't really hold up when you analyze it.

Aren't you located in Canada? Why should it matter what you think American's choices are?

As an example they did a test on this.

Who are 'they'?

In North America, you put all the pepsi products on a table and it was seen as a choice between the various ones.

Performed the same test in Eastern Europe and it wasn't seen as a choice because it's all Soda.

Put pepsi next to water, orange juice and tea and that was seen as a choice in Eastern Europe.

I don't live in Eastern Europe...

I think when it comes to HMO's, what Americans see as choice is very delusional when so many of these companies major aim is for you to pay higher premiums and get less care.

I'll rely on open markets reducing costs faster than top down government control could ever do.

Jetboogieman · Jan 28, 2014

j-mac said:
Simply your opinion.

Major HMOs have massively documented practises of denying people coverage, dropping coverage and forcing substantially higher premiums on people who get sick.

Are you denying this occurs?

Aren't you located in South Africa? Why should it matter what you think American's choices are?

A: I'm in Canada, I was born in South Africa.

B: I was speaking about Americans concept of choice, not what choices they actually make.

Who are 'they'?

At work I'll have to track down the video and corresponding study, interesting stuff.

I don't live in Eastern Europe...

That's not the point, the point is to question whether or not a choice is really a choice and this is a good example of it.

Is it really a choice of different drinks... or is it all sugary crap?

Is it really a choice of different healthcare providers... or is it all self serving corporations whose aim is to make a profit off you while providing you with the least amount of care possible?

I'll rely on open markets reducing costs faster than top down government control could ever do.

Yeah because that was working so well up until 2009 :roll:

I'm not saying Obamacare is the answer, I think it's actually a horrific piece of legislation and I supported and expected it to be struck down by SCOTUS but it has not been.

What I take issue with is this notion that private business is the way to go with Healthcare and I just don't believe that.

jmotivator · Jan 28, 2014

Jetboogieman said:
I have lots of choice.

This is the first time in my life I've had a long term relationship with healthcare in my area in Canada and for the most part (besides a couple of staff members, but that can happen anywhere) it's been pretty phenomenal, no one forces us to do anything and we have the choice of how we raise our newborn and the medical choices we make for him and ourselves.

The other month I had some trouble with my knee, I was out of the doctors office and in X-Ray in 20 minutes.

Can't argue with that.

No bureaucrats involved like you believe.

That's a myth.

This is my experience with private health care in the US. So our anecdote duel ends in a draw.

j-mac · Jan 28, 2014

Jetboogieman said:
Major HMOs have massively documented practises of denying people coverage, dropping coverage and forcing substantially higher premiums on people who get sick.

Are you denying this occurs?

Are you suggesting that problems like this can't be fixed without a gigantic top down government dictate? Oh, and although there are some HMO's in America, most coverage is traditional coverage through Ins companies.

A: I'm in Canada, I was born in South Africa.

B: I was speaking about Americans concept of choice, not what choices they actually make.

A: I saw that and changed it already.

B: :roll: playing semantics will not change the facts.

At work I'll have to track down the video and corresponding study, interesting stuff.

I await with baited breath.

That's not the point, the point is to question whether or not a choice is really a choice and this is a good example of it.

Is it really a choice of different drinks... or is it all sugary crap?

Is it really a choice of different healthcare providers... or is it all self serving corporations whose aim is to make a profit off you while providing you with the least amount of care possible?

False premise...Using Eastern Europeans to predict American's validity of choice, or lack of is junk.

Yeah because that was working so well up until 2009

Why do you care Canadian?

I'm not saying Obamacare is the answer, I think it's actually a horrific piece of legislation and I supported and expected it to be struck down by SCOTUS but it has not been.

For someone that doesn't agree with it, you sure argue for it....

What I take issue with is this notion that private business is the way to go with Healthcare and I just don't believe that.

I don't care what you take issue with, you don't live here...So, pay those high tax rates, and enjoy where you live, and let us decide for ourselves.

Jetboogieman · Jan 28, 2014

j-mac said:
you don't live here

And you don't live here, or the UK but that doesn't seem to stop you from misrepresenting how universal healthcare actually works in our nations.

So, pay those high tax rates,

Cheaper than paying for crazy premiums and going bankrupt because I got sick.

and enjoy where you live

If you do, that's great.

and let us decide for ourselves.

I'm not saying you can't, but surely I'm allowed to be a proponent for what it is I believe in, and what I've witnessed to work.

j-mac · Jan 28, 2014

Jetboogieman said:
And you don't live here, or the UK but that doesn't seem to stop you from misrepresenting how universal healthcare actually works in our nations.

Where did I do that in this thread....Oh, I didn't...Fact.

Cheaper than paying for crazy premiums and going bankrupt because I got sick.

That's your opinion.

If you do, that's great.

I love where I live...Snow today, but near 60 degrees by this weekend....Mountains to one side of me, and Atlantic Ocean to the east...Lakes everywhere, and golf courses in every direction....Heaven on earth.

I'm not saying you can't, but surely I'm allowed to be a proponent for what it is I believe in, and what I've witnessed to work.

Didn't you just complain about me supposedly "misrepresenting" what you have, yet you feel it ok for you to do eh? Interesting.

Deuce · Jan 28, 2014

j-mac said:
Where did I do that in this thread....Oh, I didn't...Fact.

That's your opinion.

I love where I live...Snow today, but near 60 degrees by this weekend....Mountains to one side of me, and Atlantic Ocean to the east...Lakes everywhere, and golf courses in every direction....Heaven on earth.

Didn't you just complain about me supposedly "misrepresenting" what you have, yet you feel it ok for you to do eh? Interesting.

The lower cost most certainly is not an opinion. Anyone suggesting that the American system is cheaper is outright delusional.

Erod · Jan 28, 2014

Jetboogieman said:
I have lots of choice.

This is the first time in my life I've had a long term relationship with healthcare in my area in Canada and for the most part (besides a couple of staff members, but that can happen anywhere) it's been pretty phenomenal, no one forces us to do anything and we have the choice of how we raise our newborn and the medical choices we make for him and ourselves.

The other month I had some trouble with my knee, I was out of the doctors office and in X-Ray in 20 minutes.

Can't argue with that.

No bureaucrats involved like you believe.

That's a myth.

Then why are Canadians that can afford it leaving in droves for their serious healthcare needs.

Your system works great if you have the flu. Not so much if you have a life-threatening condition.

And I've heard this from multiple Canadians themselves. Not the media.

rocket88 · Jan 28, 2014

j-mac said:
We have heard since this law was first proposed in 2009, that Republicans have no alternatives. To some extent that is true, not in that Repubs didn't offer anything, indeed there were several plans put forth only to be set out there and blocked by Harry Reid, and then denounced as 'nothing to offer'....Well, here we go with another one. Will democrats again be the party of disingenuousness, and lie that nothing was put forward? Here are some key points of the latest proposal...

It may not be a fix all, but it is a start, and a return to allowing American's to make the choice, not some government official....And further, it is something that American's want a return to, with nearly every measurement polled of the President's performance, from O-care, to trustworthiness Obama's, and democrat governance is coming in with approvals in the high 30s, and disapproval in the near 60% range....

I like their proposal. Now let's see them craft it into a law and pass it. Not too many pages either, since that's one of the knocks on Obamacare. No exceptions to get certain members of Congress on board.

The idea is fine, but until they actually make it into a bill it's empty rhetoric. Which given the timing....

j-mac · Jan 28, 2014

Deuce said:
The lower cost most certainly is not an opinion. Anyone suggesting that the American system is cheaper is outright delusional.

Obama promised that under his plan average families would see a savings of $2500. per family, so far, they have seen the exact opposite with the plans costing an average of $2500. more than what they had....So the delusion is yours my friend.

What if...? · Jan 28, 2014

j-mac said:
We have heard since this law was first proposed in 2009, that Republicans have no alternatives. To some extent that is true, not in that Repubs didn't offer anything, indeed there were several plans put forth only to be set out there and blocked by Harry Reid, and then denounced as 'nothing to offer'....Well, here we go with another one. Will democrats again be the party of disingenuousness, and lie that nothing was put forward? Here are some key points of the latest proposal...

It may not be a fix all, but it is a start, and a return to allowing American's to make the choice, not some government official....And further, it is something that American's want a return to, with nearly every measurement polled of the President's performance, from O-care, to trustworthiness Obama's, and democrat governance is coming in with approvals in the high 30s, and disapproval in the near 60% range....

So, sounds like if you have a pre-existing condition, as I do, which has kept you from getting insurance in the first place, you're still screwed, as it only covers changing from one insurer to another without a lapse in coverage.

j-mac · Jan 28, 2014

What if...? said:
So, sounds like if you have a pre-existing condition, as I do, which has kept you from getting insurance in the first place, you're still screwed, as it only covers changing from one insurer to another without a lapse in coverage.

Do you have insurance now?

What if...? · Jan 28, 2014

ttwtt78640 said:
The hardest thing to mandate is not denying coverage (or having extremely high premium rates) based on pre-existing conditions, and this proposal skirts that by assuming that all are now covered. Note that this proposal seems to allow not initially accepting anyone, it simply says that "continuous coverage" cannot be denied to those switching companies/policies. The problem occurs as follows: Joe has a very cheap policy (or none at all), then Joe gets seriously ill and wishes to "upgrade" his coverage (likely only for the duration of his expensive treatment) - the insurance company must then accept Joe's request only if Joe had prior coverage.

I have asthma. Not serious but chronic. Puts me on the pre-existing condition list.

What if...? · Jan 28, 2014

j-mac said:
Do you have insurance now?

No. Last I checked (pre ACA) it was either unobtanium or ludicrously expensive unless through work. In the process of joining the Stagehands union, where I'll get insurance. But that's a year or two off.

j-mac · Jan 28, 2014

What if...? said:
No. Last I checked (pre ACA) it was either unobtanium or ludicrously expensive unless through work. In the process of joining the Stagehands union, where I'll get insurance. But that's a year or two off.

Better hurry, O-care's window is closing, you need that affordable insurance.

ttwtt78640 · Jan 28, 2014

What if...? said:
I have asthma. Not serious but chronic. Puts me on the pre-existing condition list.

OK then, since that obstacle has been removed by PPACA, have you signed up for medical care insurance now that you "must"?

What if...? · Jan 28, 2014

j-mac said:
Better hurry, O-care's window is closing, you need that affordable insurance.

Yeah, just gotta talk to somebody, as my income fluctuates so much right now.

Deuce · Jan 28, 2014

Erod said:
Then why are Canadians that can afford it leaving in droves for their serious healthcare needs.

Your system works great if you have the flu. Not so much if you have a life-threatening condition.

And I've heard this from multiple Canadians themselves. Not the media.

But the reverse is also true, Americans going to canada for faster and cheaper care.

Erod · Jan 28, 2014

Deuce said:
But the reverse is also true, Americans going to canada for faster and cheaper care.

It's not faster at all. It's painfully slow if you are in need of serious care.

They are set up well for checkups and head colds. Who goes to Canada for a head cold?

What if...? · Jan 28, 2014

ttwtt78640 said:
OK then, since that obstacle has been removed by PPACA, have you signed up for medical care insurance now that you "must"?

Tried online but ran into an issue due to the vagaries in my income right now. Starting out with the stagehands union means feast and famine and the website had no "not sure" option. Gotta call and talk to somebody.

Senate Republicans pitch ObamaCare alternative on eve of presidential address

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