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Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

Mornin' Monte.....Yeah I am not into the nation building deal at all. Not when we need to be building our own. If there is some alterior motive we don't know about. I would think we would see some sort of pattern. I don't see it anywhere.

But I have been waiting to see all those pics of the Genocide that they say Gadhafi was committing. For some reason.....none have been able to show such Right before the West jumped him.

That's because it never happened .. like Susan Rice's Viagra rape story .. they just pulled it out of their asses and shoved it into the mouths of their minions.
 
Or you can't actually substantiate your claims, since you have attempted to provide proof multiple times already. But all such proof has shown is a lack of ability to be critical of sources and an understanding of how proper citations work



Anyone following this discussion knows this is nothing more than an excuse, given the fact that you have tried to "bring me up to speed", but your attempts to offer actual evidence were buffoonish, at best

You've got it all twisted sir. I have no desire to bring you up to anything. Anyone who is paying attention knows that you don't know what you're talking about .. which I've said from the beginning and have enjoyed demonstrating. :0)
 
Plenty of others have put forward their criticisms of those videos. Chuckles pointed out that it idiotically claimed that all banks are Rothschild owned, and as both he and Sherman have mentioned, it was filmed in Gaddafi territory by a source that was likely not independent of the Gaddafi regime.

:0) Chuckles doesn't even know what a Rothschild bank is .. :0) That's your proof?

I'm sure you would have wanted any information about Gaddafi to be filmed by his enemies, or people who have no clue about Libya, like Chuckles. That amounts to 'proof' for people looking for somewhere to hide.


I didn't suggest that, he did.

Sure you did.

"the leader of a global jihad" .. that was from you.

Proponents of a 'global jihad' is Al Qaeda .. Obama's posse. Oh no, you don't want to touch that, eh? :0)

What about the lies and deception Obama used to attack and destroy Libya?

Let me guess .. you don't want to touch that either.

Gaddafi was overwhelmingly supported by the Libyan people .. but, let me guess .. :0)

Let me guess .. you were against the Iraq War. :0) That's funny.

Typical war-mongering thought ..
 
American Jihad 2014: The New Fundamentalists
excerpts

Like other religious institutions in their heyday, the NSS has also shown a striking ability to generate support for its ever-growing structure by turning itself into a lucrative global operation. In a world where genuine enemies are in remarkably short supply (though you’d never know it from the gospel according to them), it has exhibited remarkable skill in rallying those who might support it financially, whether they call themselves Democrats or Republicans, and ensuring, even in budgetary tough times, that its coffers will continue to burst at the seams.

After all, if the twenty-first century has taught us anything, it’s that the most expensive and over-equipped military on the planet can’t win a war. Its two multi-trillion-dollar attempts since 9/11, in Iraq and Afghanistan, both against lightly armed minority insurgencies, proved disasters. (In Iraq, however, despite an ignominious U.S. pullout and the chaos that has followed in the region, the NSS and its supporters have continued to promote the idea that General David Petraeus’s “surge” was indeed some kind of historic last-minute “victory.”)

After 12 long years in Afghanistan and an Obama era surge in that country, the latest grim National Intelligence Estimate from the U.S. intelligence community suggests that no matter what Washington now does, the likelihood is that things there will only go from bad enough to far worse. Years of a drone campaign against al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula has strengthened that organization; an air intervention in Libya led to chaos, a dead ambassador, and a growing al-Qaeda movement in northern Africa -- and so it repetitively goes.
American Jihad 2014: The New Fundamentalists
 
Worse Than Iraq: Lies of the Libyan War

As exposed here on CounterPunch the lies used to justify the NATO war against Libya have surpassed those created to justify the invasion of Iraq. Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch both had honest observers on the ground for months following the rebellion in eastern Libya and both have repudiated every major charge used to justify the NATO war on Libya. According to the Amnesty observer, who is fluent in Arabic, there is not one confirmed instance of rape by the pro-Gadaffi fighters, not even a doctor who knew of one. All the Viagra mass rape stories were fabrications. Amnesty could not verify a single "African mercenary" fighting for Gaddafi story, and the highly charged international satellite television accounts of African mercenaries raping women that were used to panic much of the eastern Libyan population into fleeing their homes were fabrications.

There were no confirmed accounts of helicopter gun ships attacking civilians and no jet fighters bombing people which completely invalidates any justification for the No-Fly Zone in Security Council resolution used as an excuse for NATO to launch its attacks on Libya. After three months on the ground in rebel controlled territory, the Amnesty investigator could only confirm 110 deaths in Benghazi which included Gadaffi supporters. Only 110 dead in Benghazi? Wait a minute, we were told thousands had died there, ten thousand even. No, only 110 lost their lives including pro-government people.

No rapes, no African mercenaries, no helicopter gun ships or bombers, and only 110 ten deaths prior to the launch of the NATO bombing campaign, every reason was based on a lie.

much more
Lies of the Libyan War » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names
 
For some reason BAC, none of this seems to matter to those determined to support American aggression in the ME. Like minions of patronizing robots, US actions are always framed in moral superiority, regardless. This is what concerns me about China and Russia's positions of late.
 
Mornin' Monte.....Yeah I am not into the nation building deal at all. Not when we need to be building our own. If there is some alterior motive we don't know about. I would think we would see some sort of pattern. I don't see it anywhere.

But I have been waiting to see all those pics of the Genocide that they say Gadhafi was committing. For some reason.....none have been able to show such Right before the West jumped him.
pack of lies most likely, such as the Viagra rape crap Susan Rice was peddling.

IF I recall the Iran election was before the Libyan war, and Obama said nothing about the Basij run wild in the streets of Tehran.
If ever there was a time to say something it was when Neda was shot by Revolutionary Guards or some part of that regime ("Remember Neda")

it was described as "probably the most widely witnessed death in human history".[14]
Death of Neda Agha-Soltan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So Obama decides he's going to regime change Libya - Mr. Screw Up that he is in foreign wars. Just my take on the sordid affair, but it fits.
 
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pack of lies most likely, such as the Viagra rape crap Susan Rice was peddling.

IF I recall the Iran election was before the Libyan war, and Obama said nothing about the Basij run wild in the streets of Tehran.
If ever there was a time to say something it was when Neda was shot by Revolutionary Guards or some part of that regime ("Remember Neda")

it was described as "probably the most widely witnessed death in human history".[14]
Death of Neda Agha-Soltan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So Obama decides he's going to regime change Libya - Mr. Screw Up that he is in foreign wars. Just my take on the sordid affair, but it fits.

I think it was the Libyans who decided on regime change, and once we saw that they were able to leverage force, and make gains against Gaddafi's security forces (all lacking in Iran), other powers decided they would support them (with the US coming in rather late). Their precarious position was only discovered later when it was realized that what many took as a mass routing was more a reorganization of the state's security forces
 
pack of lies most likely, such as the Viagra rape crap Susan Rice was peddling.

IF I recall the Iran election was before the Libyan war, and Obama said nothing about the Basij run wild in the streets of Tehran.
If ever there was a time to say something it was when Neda was shot by Revolutionary Guards or some part of that regime ("Remember Neda")

it was described as "probably the most widely witnessed death in human history".[14]
Death of Neda Agha-Soltan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So Obama decides he's going to regime change Libya - Mr. Screw Up that he is in foreign wars. Just my take on the sordid affair, but it fits.



Well lets not forget who Gadhafi was rubbing elbows with in those UK Castle parties.....Nor Bilbo cutting a message to Gadhafi telling him to step aside. They thought he would take Bilbo's advice.....huh?
 
I think it was the Libyans who decided on regime change, and once we saw that they were able to leverage force, and make gains against Gaddafi's security forces (all lacking in Iran), other powers decided they would support them (with the US coming in rather late). Their precarious position was only discovered later when it was realized that what many took as a mass routing was more a reorganization of the state's security forces


Do they have Muhjadeen in Libya that had any type of Authority and or Control of any part of Libya? What about the Saud? Any communities of them hanging out in Libya? Any control?

What gains did any make against Gadhafi prior to the Advent of the NO Fly Zone? Which Berber tribes ever accepted any traitors coming out of Gadhafi's own forces?

This whole nation change with Gadhafi was brought on by the French.....again, who was in the UN filing resolutions against Libya, the Ivory Coast, Somalia and the Central Republic of Africa. Course lets not forget Syria.....and who has billions tied up in Iran.
 
I think it was the Libyans who decided on regime change, and once we saw that they were able to leverage force, and make gains against Gaddafi's security forces (all lacking in Iran), other powers decided they would support them (with the US coming in rather late). Their precarious position was only discovered later when it was realized that what many took as a mass routing was more a reorganization of the state's security forces
No. The NTC stalled in their advances, that much I know for sure . These were the "pick up truck" guys, everyt ime they tried to break out of Bengazi Qaddafi shelled them.
Wasn't the first time they tried to break out, this happened a few times, and Qaddafi rightly put down the insurrection(s)

The "humanitarian war" I'm not all that up on, I do know the NTC could not take Misrata - same thing - Qaddafi was shelling them.
NATO had to come in and literally bomb their every step of advance to take Misrata. ( how do you "humanely bomb a city?)

Point being the NTC wasn't a popular uprising, they picked up no popular support on the way to Tripoli. none. Then the sodomizing of Qaddafi outside Sirte ( with a dagger)
by the 'rebels' before someone put a bullet thru Qaddafi's head. Then they stuck his body in the frozen foods aisle of a local grocery for a few day ( an abomination for Muslims)

The US hit the Qaddafi convoy with a missile - that WAS the regime change. We decided "Qaddafi must go" way past the UN mandate.
 
Do they have Muhjadeen in Libya that had any type of Authority and or Control of any part of Libya? What about the Saud? Any communities of them hanging out in Libya? Any control?

i'm not sure what you are asking

What gains did any make against Gadhafi prior to the Advent of the NO Fly Zone? Which Berber tribes ever accepted any traitors coming out of Gadhafi's own forces?

This whole nation change with Gadhafi was brought on by the French.....again, who was in the UN filing resolutions against Libya, the Ivory Coast, Somalia and the Central Republic of Africa. Course lets not forget Syria.....and who has billions tied up in Iran.

No, the rebels were able to make temporary gains early in the conflict while the state security forces pulled back and regrouped. Which gave the impression that they had a significant chance of overthrowing the regime. It was only later, after the french came out in open support, that it was apparent that the security force pullback was intentional and strategic
 
No. The NTC stalled in their advances, that much I know for sure .

Yes, stalled after their original gains that gave the appearance they represented a significant threat to the regime


Point being the NTC wasn't a popular uprising, they picked up no popular support on the way to Tripoli. none. Then the sodomizing of Qaddafi outside Sirte ( with a dagger)

If anyone has any actual figures on breakdown of support no one is stopping you from posting them
 
i'm not sure what you are asking

What gains did any make against Gadhafi prior to the Advent of the NO Fly Zone? Which Berber tribes ever accepted any traitors coming out of Gadhafi's own forces?



No, the rebels were able to make temporary gains early in the conflict while the state security forces pulled back and regrouped. Which gave the impression that they had a significant chance of overthrowing the regime. It was only later, after the french came out in open support, that it was apparent that the security force pullback was intentional and strategic

Oh I see what you are saying now Doc.....thanks for clarification. Yeah that's exactly what took place.
 
For some reason BAC, none of this seems to matter to those determined to support American aggression in the ME. Like minions of patronizing robots, US actions are always framed in moral superiority, regardless. This is what concerns me about China and Russia's positions of late.

I don't care what people think who are blind to our horrors. They support the evil of monsters. The goal is never to convince those who support evil, the goal is to speak truth that evil. Where are all the democrats who claimed to be antiwar when Bush was in office .. claimed to believe in the sanctity of innocent human life? That was all partisan bull****. Today they hardly make a peep while Obama wages war on planet earth using the exact same tactics that there were screaming about when Bush was using them.

Amazingly, much of the world is increasingly looking to China, Russia, and the SCO to protect them from the war-mongering West.
The foreign policy of a rising China
 
Yes, stalled after their original gains that gave the appearance they represented a significant threat to the regime

If anyone has any actual figures on breakdown of support no one is stopping you from posting them
The fact no popular support was picked up, was manifest in the size&scope of the NTC advance.
Other "revolutions" need popular support to overcome a state - either by overwhelming force, or defections from the state forces. Neither of which happened here

If it wasn't for NATO, the "revolution" would not have happened..
 
I think it was the Libyans who decided on regime change, and once we saw that they were able to leverage force, and make gains against Gaddafi's security forces (all lacking in Iran), other powers decided they would support them (with the US coming in rather late). Their precarious position was only discovered later when it was realized that what many took as a mass routing was more a reorganization of the state's security forces

Not exactly anyways. At about the same time we were getting ready to support protesters overthrowing their government in Libya, Hillary Clinton was cutting a deal with Saudi Arabia. Essentially, that we would look the other way as Saudi Arabia went in to crush the same type of uprising in Bahrain that we were wringing our hands over in Libya, in exchange for SA's support for US/NATO "intervention" in Libya.
 
I think it was the Libyans who decided on regime change, and once we saw that they were able to leverage force, and make gains against Gaddafi's security forces (all lacking in Iran), other powers decided they would support them (with the US coming in rather late). Their precarious position was only discovered later when it was realized that what many took as a mass routing was more a reorganization of the state's security forces

You're not even an honest poster brother. You claimed the Green Square protest against NATO was a mere "couple of thousand people" forced there by guns.

You've ignored that first, it was easy to see by the naked eye that there was more than a couple thousand people .. and secondly, you've ignored all the reporting that 1.7 million Libyans, a third of the entire country, were in the square that day protesting against NATO.

You didn't even have the honesty to acknowledge the truth.

None of what you claim about Libya is true .. including this post.
 
Not exactly anyways. At about the same time we were getting ready to support protesters overthrowing their government in Libya, Hillary Clinton was cutting a deal with Saudi Arabia. Essentially, that we would look the other way as Saudi Arabia went in to crush the same type of uprising in Bahrain that we were wringing our hands over in Libya, in exchange for SA's support for US/NATO "intervention" in Libya.

1) How does the issue of SA address anything I wrote? 2) Yes, really. The whole idea of pursuing regime change was based on events in Libya. Perception of those events might have been flawed, but that doesn't change the fact that countries like france were responding to events within Libya and what they thought was an advantages development
 
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The fact no popular support was picked up, was manifest in the size&scope of the NTC advance.
Other "revolutions" need popular support to overcome a state - either by overwhelming force, or defections from the state forces. Neither of which happened here

If it wasn't for NATO, the "revolution" would not have happened..

I don't know, I can see support not manifesting in participation in a number of ways. Me, I have no idea, which is why i am interested in seeing people present measures to support their claims about where it actually rested
 
You're not even an honest poster brother. You claimed the Green Square protest against NATO was a mere "couple of thousand people" forced there by guns.

Actually I asserted I had every reason to be skeptical that the gathering was organic, due to the ability and will of Gaddaffi to force people there by gun point. Subtle but key distinction

You've ignored that first, it was easy to see by the naked eye that there was more than a couple thousand people .. and secondly, you've ignored all the reporting that 1.7 million Libyans, a third of the entire country, were in the square that day protesting against NATO.

I don't recall making any remarks about actual numbers and if I did, i fail to see how they would address my concerns.
 
Loosely, in that you seemed to have supported the US action we took there.

1) it still wouldn't address anything I wrote

2) what are you even talking about? I never mentioned supporting anything in SA and I made clear I was still skeptical of our actions in Libya
 
I don't know, I can see support not manifesting in participation in a number of ways. Me, I have no idea, which is why i am interested in seeing people present measures to support their claims about where it actually rested
this wasn't a populist uprising, far from it. It was the selected tribes from east Africa.

I don't feel like looking up every square in of the war- no need - it is MANIFEST NATO had to lead/support the advances. Which directly goes against the notion of a populist/popular uprising.
Or anything else you'd like to call this usurpation of power by the NTC, directly prosecuted by NATO..

While we're down in the weeds of the battles, we are missing the bigger picture -Libya today.. how is that working out for the Libyans? (rhetorical -but answer if you wish)
 
:0) Chuckles doesn't even know what a Rothschild bank is .. :0) That's your proof?
Um...a bank owned by the Rothschild family? There are plenty of other banks.
I'm sure you would have wanted any information about Gaddafi to be filmed by his enemies, or people who have no clue about Libya, like Chuckles. That amounts to 'proof' for people looking for somewhere to hide.
Yes, I would like an independent source to verify the idea that over a million people took to the streets to protest NATO intervention. It's impossible that no western journalists would have been able to notice this. I would demand the same evidence if it was made by rebel supporters, by the way.

Sure you did.

"the leader of a global jihad" .. that was from you.
Here's what I wrote, with the part that you left out
Can anyone who thinks that he is the modern incarnation of Abraham Lincoln and the leader of a global jihad be considered a sane person?

BlackAsCoal said:
Proponents of a 'global jihad' is Al Qaeda .. Obama's posse. Oh no, you don't want to touch that, eh? :0)
You mean the people he's droning :lol:
What about the lies and deception Obama used to attack and destroy Libya?

Let me guess .. you don't want to touch that either.

Gaddafi was overwhelmingly supported by the Libyan people .. but, let me guess .. :0)
That asshole got what was coming to him, for Lockerbie, La Belle, and Black September. I would advocate getting rid of him a majority of his brainwashed country did buy into his cult of personality. The fact that a sizable amount hated him and wanted democracy made intervention an even better undertaking

Let me guess .. you were against the Iraq War. :0) That's funny.

Let me guess...you just looked at my lean and assumed my position on the matter. I'm ambivalent on Iraq - Saddam needed to go, but I'm not sure it was worth 4000 American lives, and I think our focus should have been on Afghanistan.
 
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