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For Christie and MSNBC, a Messy Divorce Plays Out in Public View

j-mac said:
Oh, so you are saying that the progressive manufactured story of a traffic jam, is actually the type of corruption that exists on a larger scale in DC....I agree.



Where was Maddow on any of the scandals in the Obama administration? Oh, that's right, she was furthering the WH narrative that there was nothing there...Yet with Christie, it is just shocking scandal....:roll: Please.

As for the NewsMax reporting of a Rasmussen poll, I find nothing shocking there...NJ is a blue state, with rough and tumble politics that is routine there. That many of its residents believe Maddow as much as you do is nothing buy expected, after all even if they voted for him, liberals voting for a republican Gov. are not known for their unwavering support.
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The bottom line is that there is clear evidence of widespread corruption in New Jersey. Lanes were closed to make a political statement without any defensible justification to the public good. It's a clear abuse of power. It is also clear that either the Mayor of Hoboken is lying under oath, or the lieutenant governor is. And quite frankly, it is difficult to believe that Mayor Zimmer would act as she had, if she did not believe what she says. I mean, her "diary" looks like it was written by a 6 year old. If she was going to fake a diary, you'd think she'd make it look nicer. Also, her political career is finished unless people go to jail for her accusations. She has to believe that people in the Christie Administration are corrupt, and that the investigators will find proof.

We all know that New Jersey has a long history of bipartisan corruption. D's and R's are both partisans of $'s and ¢'s. Christie may be complicit, he may not be. If he is involved, it doesn't make him the most corrupt NJ Governor in modern history; it just makes him bad at being corrupt. He might also be relatively innocent. In any case, investigations need to continue.

Rod Blagojevich was a corrupt Democratic Governor, and now he's in jail. And of course there are other corrupt officials of both parties across the US. That shouldn't excuse the Christie administration.
 
j-mac said:
If I had to guess, I'd say that the usual party players will diminish seriousness of any sort of "scandal" being attached to this, but only in guarded ways, largely because of how divisive political climate is today. Most will caveat their support with "If he's telling the truth", because outright support will turn out to be used against them by liberals if it turns out that Christie knew. But as scandals go this one is weak, and liberals are inflating it to pre emptively take out the one GOP hopeful that has already polled to beat Hillary.

Also, I'll just say that because liberals hammered repubs so hard during the Bush years, then promised to change the way things are done in DC, when all we got is ramped up corruption, and when questioned, usually a reply of 'sit down and shut up' by liberals who just ram through like a bull in a china shop, and
then say if you don't like TFB!
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To be accurate, they said TFB, WE WON
 
Mithros said:
The bottom line is that there is clear evidence of widespread corruption in New Jersey. Lanes were closed to make a political statement without any defensible justification to the public good. It's a clear abuse of power. It is also clear that either the Mayor of Hoboken is lying under oath, or the lieutenant governor is.
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First off, I am going to take the usual democrat party line when things like this happen...Investigations are under way, and it is premature to reach conclusions. People were fired, and the Governor has stated publicly that he had no knowledge of the situation. As for the Mayor of Hoboken, she made statements earlier that political considerations had nothing to do with Sandy funds, now she changes her tune when the political situation presents itself...Convenient wouldn't you say?

And quite frankly, it is difficult to believe that Mayor Zimmer would act as she had, if she did not believe what she says. I mean, her "diary" looks like it was written by a 6 year old. If she was going to fake a diary, you'd think she'd make it look nicer.
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Why? Because that's what you'd do? You'll take a Mayor that has changed her position completely for political expediency, yet you are skeptical of the Governor in all of this....Hmmmmm....Partisan politics? I don't know.

Also, her political career is finished unless people go to jail for her accusations. She has to believe that people in the Christie Administration are corrupt, and that the investigators will find proof.
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Who cares what she believes? She's one Mayor out of what 60 plus?

We all know that New Jersey has a long history of bipartisan corruption. D's and R's are both partisans of $'s and ¢'s. Christie may be complicit, he may not be. If he is involved, it doesn't make him the most corrupt NJ Governor in modern history; it just makes him bad at being corrupt. He might also be relatively innocent. In any case, investigations need to continue.
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You have to prove it first...Unless you are a person that believes what is said based on party affiliation.

Rod Blagojevich was a corrupt Democratic Governor, and now he's in jail. And of course there are other corrupt officials of both parties across the US. That shouldn't excuse the Christie administration.
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Who said it should? You have me confused with a Christie supporter.
 
j-mac said:
First off, I am going to take the usual democrat party line when things like this happen...Investigations are under way, and it is premature to reach conclusions. People were fired, and the Governor has stated publicly that he had no knowledge of the situation. As for the Mayor of Hoboken, she made statements earlier that political considerations had nothing to do with Sandy funds, now she changes her tune when the political situation presents itself...Convenient wouldn't you say?

Why? Because that's what you'd do? You'll take a Mayor that has changed her position completely for political expediency, yet you are skeptical of the Governor in all of this....Hmmmmm....Partisan politics? I don't know.

Who cares what she believes? She's one Mayor out of what 60 plus?

You have to prove it first...Unless you are a person that believes what is said based on party affiliation.

Who said it should? You have me confused with a Christie supporter.
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I really don't get the poo pooing of this scandal. This is exactly why Conservatives don't like big government and insist on transparency. It shouldn't matter who's in charge. A few points:

First, I'd hesitate to say that the mayor changed her position. She acted exactly like someone who was being shaken down. It's not surprising that she would publicly support an administration who was willing to play hardball with funding; only coming forward when she feels safe to do so.

Second, how can you discount what she says? She's a mayor of 50,000 people. It's difficult to see how a sane person would lie to the feds under these circumstances. If she's lying, she'll face criminal charges and jail time without any real political gain.

Third, there's more than just smoke here. There's a pretty visible fire as well. We have clear and compelling evidence of widespread corruption in a state that is known for widespread corruption.

Fourth, notice none of the above contains the words Christie or Republican. There's no reason why Conservatives should be defending Christie any more than deferring judgement until after the investigations are complete. And for the record, I'd be shocked if some D's don't go down as well.
 
j-mac said:
First off, I am going to take the usual democrat party line when things like this happen...Investigations are under way, and it is premature to reach conclusions. People were fired, and the Governor has stated publicly that he had no knowledge of the situation. As for the Mayor of Hoboken, she made statements earlier that political considerations had nothing to do with Sandy funds, now she changes her tune when the political situation presents itself...Convenient wouldn't you say?



Why? Because that's what you'd do? You'll take a Mayor that has changed her position completely for political expediency, yet you are skeptical of the Governor in all of this....Hmmmmm....Partisan politics? I don't know.



Who cares what she believes? She's one Mayor out of what 60 plus?



You have to prove it first...Unless you are a person that believes what is said based on party affiliation.



Who said it should? You have me confused with a Christie supporter.
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As for proof that Christie is at best only relatively innocent? All of his emails with regard to the bridge were subpoenaed. There were none. That means he never asked or questioned anyone about the closures. This is the most heavily travelled bridge in the US, sitting on top of the only billion dollar development in New Jersey, with 26 lanes, all of which have been the subject of huge fights. Christie might not have known about it, but he knew enough not to ask questions.
 
Mithros said:
I really don't get the poo pooing of this scandal.
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You don't? Really? It's a traffic jam on the GW....You know what those of us who have lived in the area call that? Tuesday.

And further, after apologies, and firings, demo's still keep up the heat, pushing it into a phony scandal. Then enter an Obama donor prosecuting for the feds that starts off his investigation with, "I know he (Christie) is lying".... What? And you think this isn't political?
 
j-mac said:
You don't? Really? It's a traffic jam on the GW....You know what those of us who have lived in the area call that? Tuesday.

And further, after apologies, and firings, demo's still keep up the heat, pushing it into a phony scandal. Then enter an Obama donor prosecuting for the feds that starts off his investigation with, "I know he (Christie) is lying".... What? And you think this isn't political?
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When it was a traffic jam on the GW, I laughed at it and thought it was a silly conspiracy pushed by desperate Democrats.

However, when emails surface : "Time for Traffic" it became clear that people were abusing government power to send a message or retaliate against someone. The motivations are pure speculation, but it's pretty clear that there's a good bit of criminal wrongdoing here. And the accusations of holding Sandy money hostage are about as serious as you can get given the circumstances.

It isn't a phony scandal any more than Rob Blagojevich selling Obama's senate seat was a phony scandal. This is what corruption looks like.

And is this really all that surprising? Boardwalk Empire and the Sopranos are both centred in New Jersey. In 2012, Trenton's Democratic mayor was arrested on corruption charges and sentenced to two years. In 2009 3 New Jersey Mayors, Two State Assemblymen, and 5 Rabbis were arrested on corruption charges. Just google the news for stories about officials in New Jersey going to jail for corruption charges. It happens pretty much all of the time. Corruption in New Jersey is like snow in Alaska.

And yes, New Jersey is a mostly blue state. And yes, most of the corruption has traditional been blue. And yes, there are almost certainly Democrats involved in this scandal. There's zero reason to think of this as any kind of a partisan investigation.
 
Mithros said:
When it was a traffic jam on the GW, I laughed at it and thought it was a silly conspiracy pushed by desperate Democrats.

However, when emails surface : "Time for Traffic" it became clear that people were abusing government power to send a message or retaliate against someone. The motivations are pure speculation, but it's pretty clear that there's a good bit of criminal wrongdoing here. And the accusations of holding Sandy money hostage are about as serious as you can get given the circumstances.

It isn't a phony scandal any more than Rob Blagojevich selling Obama's senate seat was a phony scandal. This is what corruption looks like.

And is this really all that surprising? Boardwalk Empire and the Sopranos are both centred in New Jersey. In 2012, Trenton's Democratic mayor was arrested on corruption charges and sentenced to two years. In 2009 3 New Jersey Mayors, Two State Assemblymen, and 5 Rabbis were arrested on corruption charges. Just google the news for stories about officials in New Jersey going to jail for corruption charges. It happens pretty much all of the time. Corruption in New Jersey is like snow in Alaska.

And yes, New Jersey is a mostly blue state. And yes, most of the corruption has traditional been blue. And yes, there are almost certainly Democrats involved in this scandal. There's zero reason to think of this as any kind of a partisan investigation.
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The investigation? No, I say investigate away. But the Hobo mayor, and the immediate jump to damage Christie without knowing all the facts is pure bull.
 
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