• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

U.S. To Fund Math Education Research in Canada

cpwill said:
It is simply asking you if you apply the same standard to yourself as you demand from others for comment.

Do you? Or do you, in fact, have opinions on the wars despite having not served in them yourself?
Click to expand...

Don't even bother with him man....

He/She thinks they're Gandhi and know the correct answer for everything despite being the least philosophical.

What do you expect out of a physicist?

They deal with what can be proven on paper (in theory) not the world in practice.
 
The US has to fund itself first in raising maths standards before funding Canada.
 
Mr.Nick said:
If it was done my way some of the best students would get their diplomas at 16 and have 4 year college degrees by 20...
Click to expand...

Some already do. You might be surprised by how many dual-credit students there are in college.
 
Carjosse said:
I think you have to go to college to be a plumber, at least here.
Click to expand...

Plumber college? Wow...

Carjosse said:
Sure you have to take tests to get into those professions but after that they are almost meaningless.
Click to expand...
Afterwards is irrelevant. That's not the purpose of assessments. Assessments are designed to evaluate competence so certification can be issued for a particular professions and occupations. Always at or near the end of formal education. That's it, period. Most professions then require some type of continuing education to maintain certification including doctors, lawyers, teachers, school administrators, accountants, people who prepare income tax, etc.

Many vocational occupations also require passing tests to obtain certification including those in the automotive field and locksmiths. They also require continuing education credits to maintain certification.

Like it or not testing a part of life, especially if your occupation requires it. So why not test in school?

Carjosse said:
There are many things you can do without going to college or university.
Click to expand...

That was the purpose of my post.
 
cpwill said:
It is simply asking you if you apply the same standard to yourself as you demand from others for comment.

Do you? Or do you, in fact, have opinions on the wars despite having not served in them yourself?
Click to expand...

Why are you attempting to sidetrack this discussion with your red herrings? If you want to pose that question, do so in another thread. I am not going to take your bait.
 
Phys251 said:
Cool. But what about you?
Click to expand...
Answered in post #21


Phys251 said:
Then how can you really understand what goes on in classrooms? You hear their stories no doubt, but how do you really know for yourself what it is like?
Click to expand...
I don't need to be involved directly in government in order to a.) understand it b.) know what is going on and c.) form an opinion. Do you only comment on issues which you directly have been involved? Of course not (as that was rhetorical). You see, I at one time went to school, and was in a classroom - therefore I have a frame of reference albeit an outdated one. Second, I have people who I speak to daily, who do have direct knowledge and experience and they provide me information.

To quote myself... "I don't need to step in a pile of steaming **** to know it stinks". That is one of my favorite euphemisms describing why I don't have to have been President of the United States to form an opinion or engage in a debate on the topic.
 
Phys251 said:
Why are you attempting to sidetrack this discussion with your red herrings? If you want to pose that question, do so in another thread. I am not going to take your bait.
Click to expand...

You have already blown your own credibility.
 
Ockham said:
Answered in post #21


I don't need to be involved directly in government in order to a.) understand it b.) know what is going on and c.) form an opinion. Do you only comment on issues which you directly have been involved? Of course not (as that was rhetorical). You see, I at one time went to school, and was in a classroom - therefore I have a frame of reference albeit an outdated one. Second, I have people who I speak to daily, who do have direct knowledge and experience and they provide me information.

To quote myself... "I don't need to step in a pile of steaming **** to know it stinks". That is one of my favorite euphemisms describing why I don't have to have been President of the United States to form an opinion or engage in a debate on the topic.
Click to expand...

Perhaps I have not elaborated on my concern, and why I asked the question in the first place.

If one is to attempt to fix a situation, one first needs to understand it. And how does one do that? By listening to those who have the most direct view of the situation. In the case of schools, that description clearly belongs to the teachers. (Students might as well, but responsible adults take children's perspectives with a grain of salt.) There is no way, Ockham, no way to address the shortfalls in our school systems without, at the very least, listening to the teachers. I'm not even asking for their concerns to be satisfied. All I'm asking for is that the people on the front lines of the situation to receive the listening ear that they have earned many, many times over.
 
Phys251 said:
Perhaps I have not elaborated on my concern, and why I asked the question in the first place.
If one is to attempt to fix a situation, one first needs to understand it. And how does one do that? By listening to those who have the most direct view of the situation.
Click to expand...
And I agree with that from my first post on this subject.

Phys251 said:
In the case of schools, that description clearly belongs to the teachers. (Students might as well, but responsible adults take children's perspectives with a grain of salt.) There is no way, Ockham, no way to address the shortfalls in our school systems without, at the very least, listening to the teachers. I'm not even asking for their concerns to be satisfied. All I'm asking for is that the people on the front lines of the situation to receive the listening ear that they have earned many, many times over.
Click to expand...
I'm not suggesting to ignore teachers. I'm suggesting that there are multiple serious faults in the public school system and the major ones I see are the curriculum (ie., teaching kids to take tests and not teaching kids the material and how to apply that material to their lives), the unions (ie., tenure, fifo), and tax dollars being tied to the local public schools (administrations lock on tax dollars per child). Fix or amend those large issues and what we learn from Canada can actually be implemented. Do not fix or amend those large issues and the investigation was a waste of time and money.
 
Why wouldn't this research be conducted in this country?
 
Ockham said:
And I agree with that from my first post on this subject.

I'm not suggesting to ignore teachers. I'm suggesting that there are multiple serious faults in the public school system and the major ones I see are the curriculum (ie., teaching kids to take tests and not teaching kids the material and how to apply that material to their lives),
Click to expand...

Agreed, and this is a problem that has grown exponentially since NCLB.

the unions (ie., tenure, fifo),
Click to expand...

Ah, yes, the teacher-union bashing. When will people learn that honey attracts more flies than vinegar?

and tax dollars being tied to the local public schools (administrations lock on tax dollars per child). Fix or amend those large issues and what we learn from Canada can actually be implemented. Do not fix or amend those large issues and the investigation was a waste of time and money.
Click to expand...

And again, if the changes do not start with copious amounts of input from the teachers, then THAT would be the real waste of time and money. As has been done so many times in the past.
 
Phys251 said:
Agreed, and this is a problem that has grown exponentially since NCLB.



Ah, yes, the teacher-union bashing. When will people learn that honey attracts more flies than vinegar?



And again, if the changes do not start with copious amounts of input from the teachers, then THAT would be the real waste of time and money. As has been done so many times in the past.
Click to expand...

The teachers have been there all along.

All I have seen from them is whining for increased salaries and no personal competency responsibilities.

Time for others to step in.
 
Phys251 said:
Why are you attempting to sidetrack this discussion with your red herrings?
Click to expand...

No red herring here - only pointing out that you are hypocritically applying a standard to others you appear unwilling to apply to yourself, indicating that the standard you lay out can be effectively ignored :)
 
Ockham said:
I don't need to be involved directly in government in order to a.) understand it b.) know what is going on and c.) form an opinion. Do you only comment on issues which you directly have been involved? Of course not (as that was rhetorical). You see, I at one time went to school, and was in a classroom - therefore I have a frame of reference albeit an outdated one. Second, I have people who I speak to daily, who do have direct knowledge and experience and they provide me information.
Click to expand...

Well, she is right when she suggests that the rest of us do not understand the topic from a teachers point of view as well as a teacher would :shrug: She is simply wrong when (as you note) she attempts to use that like a club to try to discredit dissent.

To quote myself... "I don't need to step in a pile of steaming **** to know it stinks". That is one of my favorite euphemisms describing why I don't have to have been President of the United States to form an opinion or engage in a debate on the topic.
Click to expand...

Put well enough. Admittedly, I went to a public school, but they did teach me how to read a chart:

coulson-2-9-11-3.jpg


And something stinks.
 
SMTA said:
The teachers have been there all along.

All I have seen from them is whining for increased salaries and no personal competency responsibilities.

Time for others to step in.
Click to expand...

These are anti-teacher remarks that make me question what you really want. A logical conclusion that your goal is to have power over teachers. Seriously, with this kind of attitude so pervasive in the States, no wonder our schools have such a problem.
 
cpwill said:
No red herring here - only pointing out that you are hypocritically applying a standard to others you appear unwilling to apply to yourself, indicating that the standard you lay out can be effectively ignored :)
Click to expand...

Repeating a lie doesn't make it the truth. Start a new thread if you want to discuss your question.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1062813462 said:
Plumber college? Wow...


Afterwards is irrelevant. That's not the purpose of assessments. Assessments are designed to evaluate competence so certification can be issued for a particular professions and occupations. Always at or near the end of formal education. That's it, period. Most professions then require some type of continuing education to maintain certification including doctors, lawyers, teachers, school administrators, accountants, people who prepare income tax, etc.

Many vocational occupations also require passing tests to obtain certification including those in the automotive field and locksmiths. They also require continuing education credits to maintain certification.


That was the purpose of my post.
Click to expand...

Being a plumber is a trade so you require a college education, all trades require college (auto mechanics, plumbers, electricians, etc.) or at least now they do. I also missed my "not" in the last post there is not many jobs you can do without a college or university education expect maybe work in a factory or in retail. If you are only taught to test there is a chance you will fail in between those test.
 
Last edited:
Phys251 said:
Nice red herring and strawman. I see you have some opinions on education; what is your background here?
Click to expand...

You don't have to be a hockey player to know when a guy can't skate. What is your background?

Any number greater than zero would add to your credibility.
Click to expand...

His credibility is just fine.
 
Phys251 said:
These are anti-teacher remarks that make me question what you really want. A logical conclusion that your goal is to have power over teachers. Seriously, with this kind of attitude so pervasive in the States, no wonder our schools have such a problem.
Click to expand...

Schools are having problems because of public attitudes? So first came the attitude and then the problems, huh?

What's wrong with having power over teachers? Should they be answerable only to their unions and not the parents whose children they are supposed to teach??
 
Grant said:
You don't have to be a hockey player to know when a guy can't skate. What is your background?
Click to expand...

Man. If only teachers were payed half of what NHL players were. If only they got as much visibility via primary sources, not filtered through the corporate media. Yeah, then your analogy wouldn't suck so much.

His credibility is just fine.
Click to expand...

Wow, what's up with this white knight mentality on this thread? I question a person's credibility, and other people feel the need to come forth and defend him. Man, if only teachers had those kind of allies, we might not even be having this discussion!

Grant said:
Schools are having problems because of public attitudes? So first came the attitude and then the problems, huh?

What's wrong with having power over teachers? Should they be answerable only to their unions and not the parents whose children they are supposed to teach??
Click to expand...

Your lack of understanding of the sheer depth of issues that teachers have to put up with these days sticks out like a sore thumb. So I ask you the same question that I asked Ockham: How much K-12 teaching experience do you have?
 
Phys251 said:
Man. If only teachers were payed half of what NHL players were. If only they got as much visibility via primary sources, not filtered through the corporate media. Yeah, then your analogy wouldn't suck so much.
Click to expand...
You seem to have spent some time getting your public education, otherwise you would understand that the analogy wasn't about money. Another poor victim of public education.
Wow, what's up with this white knight mentality on this thread? I question a person's credibility, and other people feel the need to come forth and defend him. Man, if only teachers had those kind of allies, we might not even be having this discussion!
Click to expand...
I guess it's difficult to find allies when teachers support sexual perversions on their students.Student exodus in Michigan school district where teachers defended child molester | Fox News

Records prove N.Y. union defends pervert teachers, despite UFT leader
Your lack of understanding of the sheer depth of issues that teachers have to put up with these days sticks out like a sore thumb. So I ask you the same question that I asked Ockham: How much K-12 teaching experience do you have?
Click to expand...

What has that got to do with teachers molesting their students, or putting their unions ahead of child welfare? How much K-12 teaching experience do you need to say that sexually abusing children is okay?
 
Grant said:
You seem to have spent some time getting your public education, otherwise you would understand that the analogy wasn't about money. Another poor victim of public education.
Click to expand...

Oh so now you're going to start assuming things about me despite the fact that you and I have never met. That didn't take long.

I guess it's difficult to find allies when teachers support sexual perversions on their students.Student exodus in Michigan school district where teachers defended child molester | Fox News

Records prove N.Y. union defends pervert teachers, despite UFT leader
Click to expand...

Foxnews.com? Eagnews.org? Puh-lease, those are propaganda websites. If you want to have an honest discussion about this, you could do yourself a favor by actually using real news sources.

What has that got to do with teachers molesting their students, or putting their unions ahead of child welfare? How much K-12 teaching experience do you need to say that sexually abusing children is okay?
Click to expand...

jiFfM.jpg
 
Phys251 said:
These are anti-teacher remarks that make me question what you really want. A logical conclusion that your goal is to have power over teachers. Seriously, with this kind of attitude so pervasive in the States, no wonder our schools have such a problem.
Click to expand...

Given the fact that teachers have put their own financial security ahead of improving the education of children, then absolutely yes.

Their selfishness is why our education system is so broken.
 
Phys251 said:
Repeating a lie doesn't make it the truth. Start a new thread if you want to discuss your question.
Click to expand...

And spewing your incorrect and ridiculous assertions over and over will not make them true.

You are really embarrassing yourself here.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom