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Questions and answers about Obama’s new NSA rules

It's NEVER Obama's fault, either...lol!

I said it was their fault for not getting rid of it. However anything that occurred before Obama became President I do not blame him for. The programs were in place, and I think the record of both parties is that they both want it as long as it's not the other guys.

In 2017, when we likely have a Republican President, you'll be singing a different tune. I guarantee it.
 
Anything is possible I suppose, however, we are in the here and now. I have always held a certain bit of skepticism about the Patriot act, and the power it gave to government as opposed to liberty lost, and at its inception, things were different than today. Now you can continue to chide me for a lack of forward thinking at the time, or you can look at how the current administration, and politicians on both sides are addressing this and agree that while we need to be able to take measures to listen, or track certain numbers in contact within the US, but that mass grabs of information are not acceptable. This whole 'you were fine with Bush having it' argument is pointless.

I only made a half-hearted pursuit at "you were fine with Bush" because you said as much and made excuses for him.

Regardless, the leadership of both parties is fully behind these programs. Both deserve a certain amount of blame.
 
Since then, the Democrats have had control of the Legislative Executive Branches and didn't do anything. Obama flat stated he wasn't going to stop the surveillance. It's his show, now.

And, thus, it's convenient for yourself and others to condemn and criticize this Democratic President for his current take on the NSA surveillance program and yet where were you critics when Republicans expanded the scope of this program (which began in 1978, BTW, under Pres. Carter) post-9/11 (re: Patriot Act)? Granted, Democrats didn't end the program, but here again in a post-9/11 world where the enemy hides behind wireless communications and the World Wide Web, I can't say I blame them. But atleast they did something to try and limit NSA's authority and halt some of our intelligence agency's illegal activity (re: USAPatriot Act reauthorization, 2006). Can't say the same thing for the party who believes in doing damned near anything it wants as long as it can justify its actions in the name of "national security" even if it means dummying down many of the revisions put forward back that were suppose to protect civil liberties (speaking specifically of how House Republicans in 2006 watered down the USAPatriot Act prior to its reauthorization).
 
And, thus, it's convenient for yourself and others to condemn and criticize this Democratic President for his current take on the NSA surveillance program and yet where were you critics when Republicans expanded the scope of this program (which began in 1978, BTW, under Pres. Carter) post-9/11 (re: Patriot Act)? Granted, Democrats didn't end the program, but here again in a post-9/11 world where the enemy hides behind wireless communications and the World Wide Web, I can't say I blame them. But atleast they did something to try and limit NSA's authority and halt some of our intelligence agency's illegal activity (re: USAPatriot Act reauthorization, 2006). Can't say the same thing for the party who believes in doing damned near anything it wants as long as it can justify its actions in the name of "national security" even if it means dummying down many of the revisions put forward back that were suppose to protect civil liberties (speaking specifically of how House Republicans in 2006 watered down the USAPatriot Act prior to its reauthorization).

That was then; this is now. Where YOU...NOW? Why are you giving Obama a free pass, NOW?
 
Yes well point taken. Far more Americans are partisan than not. And not all independents are TRULY independent. Until the TRULY independent, liberty minded and constitutionally focused Americans out number partisans, we can expect the status quo. Why protecting ones party president trumps the law, no longer amazes me, and it will eventually deliver us something none of us want.

Can't argue with that.
 
I only made a half-hearted pursuit at "you were fine with Bush" because you said as much and made excuses for him.

yep, different time, and a far different program.

Regardless, the leadership of both parties is fully behind these programs. Both deserve a certain amount of blame.

So, in the Bush/Obama dynamic where would you place the "certain" ratio at? 50/50? 60/40? 80/20? and why?
 
I said it was their fault for not getting rid of it. However anything that occurred before Obama became President I do not blame him for. The programs were in place, and I think the record of both parties is that they both want it as long as it's not the other guys.

In 2017, when we likely have a Republican President, you'll be singing a different tune. I guarantee it.

Obamanistas flat refuse to criticize Obama for ANYthing. It's incredible.
 
It's NEVER Obama's fault, either...lol!
And it is/was never the Republicans fault, let alone Master Bush - who's really just a scrub.
 
I know you didn't! That's the point!...lol!
Either you're lying now or you were lying then, since you accused me defending him in your last post. :roll:


I objected to the Patriot Act in 2002. Everyone thought I was an idiot and some even labeled me unpatriotic for that opinion. Those same people are now eating their words - and they deserve to get indigestion from it, the damn dumb asses. I fought my fight in 2002 and lost. Considering your comments in this thread there is no doubt in my mind which side you were on. If you don't like what's happening now then fix it instead of blaming others. The problem is on you and those like you who wanted it in the first place. Clean up your own mess.
 
yep, different time, and a far different program.



So, in the Bush/Obama dynamic where would you place the "certain" ratio at? 50/50? 60/40? 80/20? and why?

50/50. Bush put it there, Obama didn't kill it.
 
I said it was their fault for not getting rid of it. However anything that occurred before Obama became President I do not blame him for. The programs were in place, and I think the record of both parties is that they both want it as long as it's not the other guys.

In 2017, when we likely have a Republican President, you'll be singing a different tune. I guarantee it.

That is the way it has always been. As long as it is my guy doing it, it is fine and okay. If your guy does the same thing, it is terribly wrong. For the die hards on each side, this is how they view their world. The deficits, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were bush's handed to Obama. They belonged to Bush until a certain time period goes by and then the present president inherits them and they become his. NSA and the patriot act fall into this line of thinking and now the sole responsibility rests with Obama. He could have killed them, he didn't, he now owns them.

But let me say one other thing, the world of geopolitics and the security of the United States looks a whole lot different as a senator who shoulders only a little bit of the responsibility of taking care of the country. Geopolitics and national security takes on a whole new meaning when 100% of the responsibility of the country is now all on your shoulders.
 
That is the way it has always been. As long as it is my guy doing it, it is fine and okay. If your guy does the same thing, it is terribly wrong. For the die hards on each side, this is how they view their world. The deficits, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were bush's handed to Obama. They belonged to Bush until a certain time period goes by and then the present president inherits them and they become his. NSA and the patriot act fall into this line of thinking and now the sole responsibility rests with Obama. He could have killed them, he didn't, he now owns them.

But let me say one other thing, the world of geopolitics and the security of the United States looks a whole lot different as a senator who shoulders only a little bit of the responsibility of taking care of the country. Geopolitics and national security takes on a whole new meaning when 100% of the responsibility of the country is now all on your shoulders.

And I'd add that in the event of a Republican victory in the Presidential election in '16, that President will own them. At which point the same people pushing it all off on Obama will refuse to take any responsibility for it, and they'll blame Obama as much as Liberals blame Bush.

I'd say the world looks different when you are in power than when you are the opposition. It's easy to be the opposition, all you have to do is oppose.
 
And I'd add that in the event of a Republican victory in the Presidential election in '16, that President will own them. At which point the same people pushing it all off on Obama will refuse to take any responsibility for it, and they'll blame Obama as much as Liberals blame Bush.

I'd say the world looks different when you are in power than when you are the opposition. It's easy to be the opposition, all you have to do is oppose.

Exactly, such is life in the political world we live in today.
 
And I've said twice that he failed to get rid of it. Can't read can you?

That's about as weak as criticism can get. Not much more than lip service.
 
Either you're lying now or you were lying then, since you accused me defending him in your last post. :roll:


I objected to the Patriot Act in 2002. Everyone thought I was an idiot and some even labeled me unpatriotic for that opinion. Those same people are now eating their words - and they deserve to get indigestion from it, the damn dumb asses. I fought my fight in 2002 and lost. Considering your comments in this thread there is no doubt in my mind which side you were on. If you don't like what's happening now then fix it instead of blaming others. The problem is on you and those like you who wanted it in the first place. Clean up your own mess.

It doesn't matter what side I'm on, then, or now. The fact is, the blame at this point lies squarely at Obama's doorstep and you people want to continue to blame Bush and Republican Congress critters.
 
50/50. Bush put it there, Obama didn't kill it.

Ok, that's fair, but we don't have Bush in office, or any sort of power now, we have Obama, so at this moment, Obama is responsible for what HE is doing with this program.
 
That's about as weak as criticism can get. Not much more than lip service.

So anything less than pushing for impeachment or implying that he's Stalin is "lip service?"
 
So anything less than pushing for impeachment or implying that he's Stalin is "lip service?"

Let's take a look at that question from the opposite directed at you shall we?

So, anything more than a complete pass or complete fealty is unfair to you?
 
That is the way it has always been. As long as it is my guy doing it, it is fine and okay. If your guy does the same thing, it is terribly wrong. For the die hards on each side, this is how they view their world. The deficits, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were bush's handed to Obama. They belonged to Bush until a certain time period goes by and then the present president inherits them and they become his. NSA and the patriot act fall into this line of thinking and now the sole responsibility rests with Obama. He could have killed them, he didn't, he now owns them.

But let me say one other thing, the world of geopolitics and the security of the United States looks a whole lot different as a senator who shoulders only a little bit of the responsibility of taking care of the country. Geopolitics and national security takes on a whole new meaning when 100% of the responsibility of the country is now all on your shoulders.

Then senators shouldn't make comments that they can't support and Americans should stop listening to them. :) like that's going to happen.
 
So anything less than pushing for impeachment or implying that he's Stalin is "lip service?"

Well, as strongly as you've lashed out at this program in the past, your so valled criticism of Marse Barack is incredibly weak.
 
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