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Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

I think we need to stay on topic here: this story is not about abortion, and it is not about organ transplants. Let's not get deflected away from the topic at hand just because some people can't help themselves.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

This may be the most disturbing story of 2014.

The fact that the woman had an end of life directive means she felt strongly about it. Giving people the dignity to die how they choose, without being kept on life support for months, is incredibly important. I've seen people kept alive for months because they didn't have this kind of documentation, and it's absolutely horrific. I understand that the life support is intended to keep the fetus alive, but how can you endorse the value of life by disregarding the woman's wishes to maintain dignity in her own life? I don't believe that the ends justify the means, especially when the husband wants his wife to be taken off of life support.

If your wife had died, the last thing you'd need is a national debate painting this as a story about abortion. And imagine all of the vitriolic things that will and have been said about him (somebody said earlier in this thread that he wanted to let the fetus die for selfish reasons, quite a vicious assumption). Respect people's wishes. What a horrible story.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Mustachio said:
This may be the most disturbing story of 2014.

The fact that the woman had an end of life directive means she felt strongly about it. Giving people the dignity to die how they choose, without being kept on life support for months, is incredibly important. I've seen people kept alive for months because they didn't have this kind of documentation, and it's absolutely horrific. I understand that the life support is intended to keep the fetus alive, but how can you endorse the value of life by disregarding the woman's wishes to maintain dignity in her own life? I don't believe that the ends justify the means, especially when the husband wants his wife to be taken off of life support.

If your wife had died, the last thing you'd need is a national debate painting this as a story about abortion. And imagine all of the vitriolic things that will and have been said about him (somebody said earlier in this thread that he wanted to let the fetus die for selfish reasons, quite a vicious assumption). Respect people's wishes. What a horrible story.
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Did she want to be taken off life support while pregnant?
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Superfly said:
Agreed, but I have to ask myself, would she be so willing to have the plug pulled if she knew it would kill her baby? I'd bet money she'd rethink her wishes, if for no other reason than to let the baby live.
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With severe defects? Because there is a high likelihood of that from the O2 deprivation.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Mustachio said:
This may be the most disturbing story of 2014.

If your wife had died, the last thing you'd need is a national debate painting this as a story about abortion. And imagine all of the vitriolic things that will and have been said about him (somebody said earlier in this thread that he wanted to let the fetus die for selfish reasons, quite a vicious assumption). Respect people's wishes. What a horrible story.
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Bravo. Well said.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

lizzie said:
The woman had an advance medical directive stating that she did not want life support or cpr.
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That's all one needs to know. It's sick that she is being kept on those machines against her will.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

rocket88 said:
Again, this isn't about abortion.

Cons support the actions of the hospital because not to do so would make them look less "pro-life."
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you are the one directly bringing up abortion.

the ethical issue at hand is very similar to those involved in the abortion debate, of course, because it does involve the notion of an inherent right to life for all human beings.

That notion is why this law exists in the first place.

Your cynical condemnation precludes the possibility that people might, you know, actually care about and think about the ethical principles they espouse.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

rocket88 said:
Death is part of life. Are you against natural law.
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Death is the absence of life. That's like arguing that zero is part of one. I think you have screwed up0 an old saying that we LIVING people say to one another about death. Experiencing the death of others is a part of life. But death itself is the absence of life, not part of it.

Maybe it's because of the right's bizarre fetus fetish.
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Akin to calling the left a "Death Cult". Good job on lowering the bar. :roll:

I mean, since you want to turn it into a partisan pissing match, we might as well go all the way.
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Not a pissing match. I stated quite clearly that the pro-abortion folks can't support saving the life of the baby because it would challenge their belief in the inhumanity of the unborn. All you have done is support this claim by dehumanizing the baby that is growing in the womb.

"Quod est Demonstrandum" and all that jazz..
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

JayDubya said:
Yes, I'm aware of that. I'm also aware of the fact that the kid couldn't possibly have such a document in place.
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The fetus isn't a kid yet. What week is the legal limit for an abortion in Texas? Until then, and the hospital could be stalling to breach the limit and make the question moot, but until the legal limit is hit the 'kid' is a fetus and can be legally terminated.

Sounds to me like someone in the Hospital chain of command is an anti-abortion, or at least bowing to that pressure.

Husband has the legal right to 'pull the plug' on his wife, he also has that right to the 20 week old fetus.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Superfly said:
How can we be sure that it is not healthy?
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It's not necessarily possible to know.

Hence, leaving the decision up to the father (& her mother)
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Your Star said:
That's all one needs to know. It's sick that she is being kept on those machines against her will.
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Did she want to be taken off life support while pregnant?
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Superfly said:
I'm sure he doesn't look at her as a pregnant mammal. He looks at her as the mother of his child. I agree with John - unless he didn't want the child to begin with, why would he not do everything in his power to keep the baby alive?
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Probably because doctors have discussed the odds surrounding severe defects due to O2 deprivation and any other complications.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Your Star said:
That's all one needs to know. It's sick that she is being kept on those machines against her will.
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She's dead, isn't she? I mean, in the case of the 14 year old girl declared "brain dead" people were falling all over themselves to declare why "brain dead" is "really dead". Now we have a woman declared brain dead and people want to start talking about her "rights"? Puh-lease.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

jmotivator said:
Death is the absence of life. That's like arguing that zero is part of one. I think you have screwed up0 an old saying that we LIVING people say to one another about death. Experiencing the death of others is a part of life. But death itself is the absence of life, not part of it.



Akin to calling the left a "Death Cult". Good job on lowering the bar. :roll:



Not a pissing match. I stated quite clearly that the pro-abortion folks can't support saving the life of the baby because it would challenge their belief in the inhumanity of the unborn. All you have done is support this claim by dehumanizing the baby that is growing in the womb.

"Quod est Demonstrandum" and all that jazz..
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sometimes death is essential for life to exist.

look at mount saint helens right after it eruputed in the eightys, it destroyed acres of forest and caused destruction on a grand scale. but that destruction did not end all life in the area, and look at the area around mount saint helens now.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Superfly said:
What are you going to do?? You are going to give that baby every fighting chance it has to survive. Sheesh. If God wants the baby dead, the baby's going to die no matter what. I don't mean to sound cold and callous, but the mother is, for all intents and purposes, dead. She is gone from this earth. All she's being used for right now is to incubate a baby, to give it a fighting chance. We keep people on life support for organ donation - why not to save a baby? Saving a life is saving a life.
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God can intervene any time he wishes here.

Otherwise, our laws and respect for the family are not based on religion.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

jmotivator said:
She's dead, isn't she? I mean, in the case of the 14 year old girl declared "brain dead" people were falling all over themselves to declare why "brain dead" is "really dead". Now we have a woman declared brain dead and people want to start talking about her "rights"? Puh-lease.
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if the woman is brain dead, does she have the right to die? you know: "rest in peace".
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

CanadaJohn said:
That's fair - but let's say, however, in an abstract and admittedly crazy possibility, that a set of conjoined twins had differing views on life-support. Perhaps one had a serious problem or accident, was in a coma or brain dead and had given a directive not to put on life support - but the other twin's life depended upon life support being applied until such time as he/she could be medically treated and able to survive on his/her own. Should both have to die because one didn't want life support?
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No, but that is a different set of circumstances. In this one, just as in the abortion issue, the mother's wishes should be the first considered. As much as I understand the anti-abortion side of this issue, the mother did not want life support in the case of her death.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

lizzie said:
No, but that is a different set of circumstances. In this one, just as in the abortion issue, the mother's wishes should be the first considered. As much as I understand the anti-abortion side of this issue, the mother did not want life support in the case of her death.
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Did she want to be taken off life support while pregnant?
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

scatt said:
Did she want to be taken off life support while pregnant?
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She had an end of life directive. Do you think that any end of life situation is the way one would expect it to be? Life is unpredictable, but there is a clear purpose to an end of life directive: to maintain the dignity of the individual. If there is a very unusual situation like this one, then maybe I could see asking the family what their wish is. The decision of whether or not to put a child into this world under these circumstances should not be left to a doctor or congress.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Mustachio said:
She had an end of life directive. Do you think that any end of life situation is the way one would expect it to be? Life is unpredictable, but there is a clear purpose to an end of life directive: to maintain the dignity of the individual. If there is a very unusual situation like this one, then maybe I could see asking the family what their wish is. The decision of whether or not to put a child into this world under these circumstances should not be left to a doctor or congress.
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Did she want to be taken off life support while pregnant?
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

notquiteright said:
The fetus isn't a kid yet. What week is the legal limit for an abortion in Texas? Until then, and the hospital could be stalling to breach the limit and make the question moot, but until the legal limit is hit the 'kid' is a fetus and can be legally terminated.

Sounds to me like someone in the Hospital chain of command is an anti-abortion, or at least bowing to that pressure.

Husband has the legal right to 'pull the plug' on his wife, he also has that right to the 20 week old fetus.
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Simply monstrous.

Again, it would be against the law for them to remove life support and kill the kid. They don't have to be pro-life to give a damn about the law, but it certainly helps.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

scatt said:
Did she want to be taken off life support while pregnant?
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What? Do you assume I am psychic? All I (or any of us) have to go by, is what her advance directive stated.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

lizzie said:
What? Do you assume I am psychic? All I (or any of us) have to go by, is what her advance directive stated.
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Her directive stated she wanted to be taken off life support while pregnant?
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Unitedwestand13 said:
sometimes death is essential for life to exist.

look at mount saint helens right after it eruputed in the eightys, it destroyed acres of forest and caused destruction on a grand scale. but that destruction did not end all life in the area, and look at the area around mount saint helens now.
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I think you need to take this argument back to the drawing board.

Think of the woman as the dead landscape after the volcanic eruption and the baby in her womb as the life under the ash struggling to continue living.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Unitedwestand13 said:
if you want the baby to live so badly why not petition to adopt it?
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Hey, that's a good line of debate. How about this one: In you want the baby dead so bad why don't you go run a sword through it!

This is very productive.

Life has value whether or not I have the means to raise it as my own.
 
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