• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer[W:173:381]

Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

Excon said:
Wrong. The first and third sentences were perfectly clear and still are. Even after the edit to the second.
All you are doing now is showing that you are playing a game to deflect.

And it was you getting personal, and me telling you to knock it off.
Click to expand...

I said "uhhh... wut?"

I did not call you any names. And what you said made no sense. So stop playing the victim.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

poweRob said:
I've not been in those threads so I never saw you in those threads. All I asked for was a link. And now that you supplied them... I stand corrected.
Click to expand...
And as I already said, which you feigned ignorance of;
Doesn't mater if you have or haven't. (seen me doing any such thing - Duh!)
Nor does a person have to. (Duh!)

Just coming out and saying such is nothing more than an objective showing of your own biased thoughts. (Duh!)​
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

poweRob said:
I said "uhhh... wut?"

I did not call you any names. And what you said made no sense. So stop playing the victim.
Click to expand...
Getting personal is not just calling names.
Suggesting someone is a certain way or of a certain belief, is also getting personal.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

Excon said:
Getting personal is not just calling names.
Suggesting someone is a certain way or of a certain belief, is also getting personal.
Click to expand...

Good lord. I asked you for proof. If that hurt your feelings it's not my fault nor is it getting personal.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

poweRob said:
Good lord. I asked you for proof. If that hurt your feelings it's not my fault nor is it getting personal.
Click to expand...
Good gawd man. There should have been no asking to begin with. Do you really not get that?
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

Excon said:
Good gawd man. There should have been no asking to begin with. Do you really not get that?
Click to expand...

Your posts in this thread begged for it to be asked.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

poweRob said:
Your posts in this thread begged for it to be asked.
Click to expand...

No my posts did not beg for any question to be asked.

That is nothing more than the personal factor I spoke about. Which is based upon your own biased imagination.
It wasn't needed or relevant.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

ric27 said:
Then may, I suggest not fighting with the police, Alyssa

It's that simple
Click to expand...

Excessive use of force.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

The Mark said:
I'm not so sure he's arguing that their actions were...proper...

But rather that they were...legal? Hmm...

Also, I haven't seen the video.


Edit: And while a video (if unaltered) cannot lie, it can be misinterpreted by those viewing it, especially if it lacks full context.
Whether that is the case here..../shrug
Click to expand...

As soon as Ramos put on gloves and threatened the victim with violence "see these fists? they're getting ready to f you up", is when they deviated from protocol. The victim was never told he was being placed under arrest - in fact, they had stopped questioning him or even talking about the initial reason for contact. They are supposed to bring whoever made the report over to determine if Thomas was the one they saw breaking into cars. They didn't do that.

What escalated it to a full scale assault was nothing more than Ramos bullying the victim, then when both cops swung their billy clubs at him for no reason, he took off terrified and running for his life. They were not acting according to legal law enforcement procedure leading up to that moment, or any time after. At one point in the video, you see Cicinelli raining blows down full force onto Thomas's face with the butt of his taser, and one of the cops holding Thomas down moves very quickly out of the way. He later said that he was trying to dodge the splattering blood.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

SMTA said:
Excessive use of force.
Click to expand...

Read up on enforcement levels.... response to resistance/levels of resistance

Also educate yourself on.... Graham v Connor, Canton v Ohio, Garner v Tennessee, etc
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

Excon said:
This has already been said and should have to be said again had you read the entire thread.

In one thread I am called a cop hater, in another I am called a cop lover. They both can not be true.
This should clue you in that what you see is a figment of your biased imagination and not reality.
The fact that you use derogatory language in addressing the Officers who were tasked with subduing a person who was greatly resisting with force, speaks to that biased imagination.

As for the video, it shows Kelly resisting with great force.
Click to expand...

If that's what you think it shows, then I must give you the benefit of the doubt. At what time in the video can we see this "great force"?
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

Excon said:
The Officers did not set out to kill him.
It is unfortunate, but died as a result of his resisting. Had he not resisted he would still be alive.
Click to expand...

Resist WHAT? They never said he was under arrest.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

Excon said:
And we know that you can't be referring to me, as I am more than willing to call out Police misconduct and wrongful actions.
Click to expand...

You have to know what constitutes police misconduct before you can call it out. You display a gross lack of knowledge in this area, and it becomes more and more apparent with every post you make.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

Excon said:
I am more than willing to call out Police misconduct and wrongful actions.
Click to expand...

Well, you made no mention of the falsifying of reports. They had filed their reports. When they found out about the video, and it was possible they might be charged, the chief admitted he let them rewrite the reports. If they had not lied in the original reports, there would have been no need to rewrite them. That is so illegal - and falls under "wrongful actions". Guess what, excon? Ya didn't call it out....
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

sKiTzo said:
As soon as Ramos put on gloves and threatened the victim with violence "see these fists? they're getting ready to f you up", is when they deviated from protocol.
Click to expand...
Matters not. It was an attempt to gain Kellys compliance.


sKiTzo said:
The victim was never told he was being placed under arrest - in fact, they had stopped questioning him or even talking about the initial reason for contact. They are supposed to bring whoever made the report over to determine if Thomas was the one they saw breaking into cars. They didn't do that.
Click to expand...
They didn't have to bring him and/or present him to anybody.
They found property not belonging to him in his back pack.


sKiTzo said:
What escalated it to a full scale assault was nothing more than Ramos bullying the victim, then when both cops swung their billy clubs at him for no reason,
Click to expand...
:naughty No, what escalated it was Kelly refusing to follow the Officer's orders, and then his fleeing.
That is why he was struck. Which means it was for a reason. Duh!



sKiTzo said:
he took off terrified and running for his life.
Click to expand...
:doh
BS. There is no evidence that he was terrified. None. But there is evidence that he wasn't.


sKiTzo said:
They were not acting according to legal law enforcement procedure leading up to that moment, or any time after. At one point in the video, you see Cicinelli raining blows down full force onto Thomas's face with the butt of his taser, and one of the cops holding Thomas down moves very quickly out of the way. He later said that he was trying to dodge the splattering blood.
Click to expand...
Wrong. As testified to, none of their actions were outside of their training.
A use-of-force trainer testified Tuesday that the actions of two Fullerton police officers charged in the 2011 beating death of Kelly Thomas were acting within the department’s policies.
Officers in Kelly Thomas beating acted within policy, trainer testifies - Los Angeles Times​


sKiTzo said:
If that's what you think it shows, then I must give you the benefit of the doubt. At what time in the video can we see this "great force"?
Click to expand...
You can see it when his resistance moves the two Officers trying to subdue him.
Then you have the fact that the multiple taserings had no effect.
And the multiple calls for assistance.


sKiTzo said:
Resist WHAT? They never said he was under arrest.
Click to expand...
Oh, can it.
As soon as he was told to get on the ground they were placing him under arrest.
He resisted and attempted to flee.



sKiTzo said:
You have to know what constitutes police misconduct before you can call it out. You display a gross lack of knowledge in this area, and it becomes more and more apparent with every post you make.
Click to expand...
:doh
You again are showing you know not of what you speak.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

sKiTzo said:
Well, you made no mention of the falsifying of reports. They had filed their reports. When they found out about the video, and it was possible they might be charged, the chief admitted he let them rewrite the reports. If they had not lied in the original reports, there would have been no need to rewrite them. That is so illegal - and falls under "wrongful actions". Guess what, excon? Ya didn't call it out....
Click to expand...
What are you talking about?
Link?



Edit

Is this what you are talking about? I hope not.


The anonymous informant on the Kelly Thomas beating called back into the John and Ken show on KFI today.

Notable claims made by the informant:


[...]

The police reports were ordered to be rewritten many times because management did not like the way the reports were written.

[...]​

The Return of the Informant​


If this is what you are referring to, thank you again for showing you do not know of what you speak.
It does not say falsified.
It does not say the Officers falsified and then were allowed to change their reports.
Hell, apparently it isn't even true as it surely did not come up at trial, did it?
An anonymous source! iLOL D'oh! :doh Duh!


And you guess what and answer the following.
1. Why would I call out something that I am not aware of?
2. And why in the hell would I call out the Officers based on an anonymous radio show caller's bs?
 
Last edited:
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

MMC said:
So, just because that Jury found them innocent does mean they are.

You know this will be appealed Right. Already 3 town Councilmembers have been forced to take a hike. The Police Chief will be next then who will be round to protect these guys.
Click to expand...

Not guilty verdicts are not appealed. Oher charges may be filed. Or the feds may try to stick their noses in a local matter, but they will lose.

I was not there, either at the scene, or at the trial, so I have no real evidence on which to make a judgement, but obviously a jury of his peers felt the case lacked sufficient evidence.

Trial by media is a dangerous thing.
 
Last edited:
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

Excon said:
Wrong. As testified to, none of their actions were outside of their training.
A use-of-force trainer testified Tuesday that the actions of two Fullerton police officers charged in the 2011 beating death of Kelly Thomas were acting within the department’s policies.
Officers in Kelly Thomas beating acted within policy, trainer testifies - Los Angeles Times​
.
Click to expand...

1. Rubio testifies that there was no excessive force, and there was nothing in the video that was not consistent with their training.
2. The DA then subpoenas department records showing they were fired for excessive force, and thus, Rubio is a liar.
3. The corrupt judge, after allowing the documents to be subpoenaed, doesn't allow them to be used as evidence that the key defense witness lied. We are never told why.

If you are going to back this flagrant display of injustice, then it's clear you are part of the problem.

Kelly Thomas case: Personnel records will not be evidence - The Orange County Register
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

sKiTzo said:
1. Rubio testifies that there was no excessive force, and there was nothing in the video that was not consistent with their training.
2. The DA then subpoenas department records showing they were fired for excessive force, and thus, Rubio is a liar.
3. The corrupt judge, after allowing the documents to be subpoenaed, doesn't allow them to be used as evidence that the key defense witness lied. We are never told why.

If you are going to back this flagrant display of injustice, then it's clear you are part of the problem.

Kelly Thomas case: Personnel records will not be evidence - The Orange County Register
Click to expand...

What part do you not understand about, the verdict?

Not guilty on ALL counts.....ALL counts...no just one but all

Just WTF is that telling you, eh?
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

Excon said:
And why in the hell would I call out the Officers based on an anonymous radio show caller's bs?
Click to expand...

Because it's the main reason the chief had to step down. He admitted it at the time. I spent a couple of minutes to find a link for you regarding this, but I'm not going to waste my time looking any further. What's the point? You'll just be in denial about that too.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

ric27 said:
What part do you not understand about, the verdict?

Not guilty on ALL counts.....ALL counts...no just one but all

Just WTF is that telling you, eh?
Click to expand...

The judge didn't allow evidence that would have shown the key defense witness to be a liar (didn't I already say that and back it with a link?)
This would have forced a guilty verdict. How can such vital evidence be barred? They don't tell us, do they? That is called CORRUPTION.
You will respond to this by ignoring what I just said, and continue to pretend that the trial was just and fair, and that it's normal to bar documented evidence that would have impeached the key witness for the defense. Again, you will ignore this. I know because I've dealt with many shills just like you.

Still standing by for response to post #243
 
Last edited:
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

sKiTzo said:
The judge didn't allow evidence that would have shown the key defense witness to be a liar (didn't I already say that and back it with a link?)
This would have forced a guilty verdict. How can such vital evidence be barred? They don't tell us, do they? That is called CORRUPTION.
You will respond to this by ignoring what I just said, and continue to pretend that the trial was just and fair, and that it's normal to bar documented evidence that would have impeached the key witness for the defense. Again, you will ignore this. I know because I've dealt with many shills just like you.

Still standing by for response to post #243
Click to expand...

Before you go any further with your nonsense

1 Present, the evidence, of the *corrupt* judge

2 Do you know, the difference between being tried by the media and being tried, as in a court of law?
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

sKiTzo said:
At what exact time mark(s) in this video do you see this "great force" of resistance?

Full, unedited Kelly Thomas confrontation video (35 min.) : The Orange County Register
Click to expand...
I see you haven't been paying attention huh?
Much like to the information you used to make the false assertion about falsifying reports. :doh


Let me clue you into something.
While it is in the video, I do not have to show any such force being used in it, as the following information is know to us.

The Officers reported and testified that he was, and that they were surprised by it.
That it was so great that they thought he may have been on drugs.
He resisted with such force that multiple taserings did not effect him and that he resisted with such force that multiple calls for back up were made.
He resisted with such force that it took six Officers to subdue him.​

Do you truly not understand these things?


In the following, while one Officer is trying to get Kelly's arm completely into the crook of his back, which Kelly can be seen to be resisting, Kelly can also be seen to push up and then forward, moving both Officers.
Not one, but two. Do you also not understand that?





sKiTzo said:
1. Rubio testifies that there was no excessive force, and there was nothing in the video that was not consistent with their training.
2. The DA then subpoenas department records showing they were fired for excessive force, and thus, Rubio is a liar.
3. The corrupt judge, after allowing the documents to be subpoenaed, doesn't allow them to be used as evidence that the key defense witness lied. We are never told why.

If you are going to back this flagrant display of injustice, then it's clear you are part of the problem.

Kelly Thomas case: Personnel records will not be evidence - The Orange County Register
Click to expand...
:doh
:lamo
You really have no clue. Nor is that the way it works.
The only flagrant display here, is the assertions coming from your biased imagination.
Corrupt Judge? Where do you come up with such nonsense?

The expert is the training Officer. Not the person who fired them.
It is really ridiculous to say he lied.
All you are showing is that the reasoning of the two is at odds.
And as the training Officer is the expert, he has more credibility then the other who had termination authority.

Which, in conjunction with the Jury's verdict, will most likely be the reason they get their jobs back.


sKiTzo said:
Because it's the main reason the chief had to step down. He admitted it at the time. I spent a couple of minutes to find a link for you regarding this, but I'm not going to waste my time looking any further. What's the point? You'll just be in denial about that too.
Click to expand...
:doh
Bs.
And you are even trying to switch it up.
There is nothing credible that you can provide to back up what you originally said.
The anonymous source does not say that the reports were falsified.


And frankly, it appears to be you who has trouble accepting.
The Jury found them not guilty. Accept it and move on.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom