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West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency declared

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

AClockworkGrape said:
This is what happens when a single industry has a stranglehold on local government. I can't think of a single state dominated by any industry more than West Virginia is by big coal.

It's so damn sad, I love the area and I have family that lives there, and Appalachia is one of the most beautiful environments in the United States. Whenever I visit you can tell that local residents know that Big Coal doesn't have them or their environments interests at their hearts but they are so reliant on coal mining they simply look the other way.
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Good point. Nevada, Illinois and Rhode Island have the highest unemployment. Most of the coal mines should be moved to those states. :roll:
 
Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

joko104 said:
Chemicals are everywhere. This just isn't advertised.
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Literally.

O2, CO2, H2O, all are chemicals.

I think part of the problem here is the use of the word "chemicals". One chemical you drink to stay alive and another, even in small amounts, causes catastrophic damage to wildlife because of how it move up the food chain.

I think underestimating the potential danger of chemicals can be as bad as overestimating them. It is like that notion "everything causes cancer' that people who smoke three packs a day like to spout out, like their habit is no more dangerous for their health and mine than sitting out in the sun for 15 minutes.
 
Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

My wife was in a business heavily involved in chemicals, including receiving, storing, processing and shipping them.

There few incidents, but they were a few and no one ever hurt nor environmental damage. The government was not a positive force to avoid them or injuries by them, but I'll leave that topic alone as it causes those who want totalitarian government to rage away in their being good little government loyalists.

Rather, there was an occasion when hundreds of smaller shipments of a fairly high up the scale hazardous liquid were bursting or leaking out of their containers. Fortunately, the business had not followed what the government recommends in safety containment. Rather, had gone vastly beyond it in terms of redundancy and thicken of containment materials in such an event. The source of that particular chemical was the most respected non-petroleum chemical manufacturer (and expensive) in the country - American manufactured (not Chinese import) but German owned - and the Germans are VERY meticulous on quality control.

The American division insisted the problem had to be on her business' end. She knew it was not. But no one knew what was causing it. Her company disposed of all it's inventory (which was a lot),changed containers and ordered replacement chemical. Those too were swelling and leaking or bursting. The chemical supplier held it's ground - citing that they never had this problem and the quality was tested and certified by law by the US government itself.

Finally, she contacted the German home office, who sent one of their experts. A careful investigation found the problem. In routine replacement of fittings on their huge regional storage tank, a galvanized safety valve on one safety pipe - that valve no larger than a person's hand, had been installed. Among the mass of piping and safe gear, it was not something anyone would spot. That meant the valve contained tin. The chemical is extremely reactive to tin. The slightest amount, microscopic level, causes the chemical to continuously decompose - releasing a gas that was causing the swelling in containers required to be completely sealed.

That one small fitting had tainted over 100,000 gallons of chemical - seemingly impossible.

The only spill she had was after a government inspector insisted that drums be moved a different way, refusing to understand that was a bad idea - and obviously so. A drum cannot fall to the ground if it never leaves the ground. But he cited regulations. It turns out the staff in the warehouse was right - or, more accurately - it determined that gravity does indeed exist.

**** happens is a truism that can not be fully avoided.

The folks, animals and plants in W Virginia are going to be ok.
 
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Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

CriticalThought said:
Literally.

O2, CO2, H2O, all are chemicals.

I think part of the problem here is the use of the word "chemicals". One chemical you drink to stay alive and another, even in small amounts, causes catastrophic damage to wildlife because of how it move up the food chain.

I think underestimating the potential danger of chemicals can be as bad as overestimating them. It is like that notion "everything causes cancer' that people who smoke three packs a day like to spout out, like their habit is no more dangerous for their health and mine than sitting out in the sun for 15 minutes.
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Well, to quote Steve Martin,"EXCUSE ME!"

For your sake, I will clarify: "refined and manufactured chemicals" are all around us and in our lives.

The most harmful substance to move up the food chain, ie "biological magnification," is harmful forms of radiation, which is one of many reasons I intensely oppose nuclear power. Us, all humans and all land and water creatures will be drinking and eating radiation from Japan, just like we do for radiation from Russia. And every other nuclear power plant to a lesser degree. For thousands and thousands of years.
 
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Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

Lord Tammerlain said:
The company most likely will declare bankruptcy and open up under new management within a few months
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That and reopen in India or Indonesia it's operation if possible. The civil liabilities is why DOW moved most its chemical refining and why China is such a popular spot for chemical manufacturing, refining and processing.
 
Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

joko104 said:
That and reopen in India or Indonesia it's operation if possible. The civil liabilities is why DOW moved most its chemical refining and why China is such a popular spot for chemical manufacturing, refining and processing.
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No, it was due to the absence of foreign chemical regulation.
 
Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

"Anyone who has symptoms after being exposed should rinse skin and eyes thoroughly."

Uhm. :thinking
 
Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

Swit said:
Thank god the EPA's budget got slashed 34% for 2014 otherwise situations like this may have gotten caught before it was a problem. Now we have more reality TV for the news cycle.
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You think the EPA could have prevented this spill?

It was an accident not a dump...
 
Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

505 said:
"Anyone who has symptoms after being exposed should rinse skin and eyes thoroughly."

Uhm. :thinking
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The funny part is that it's not even a toxic substance when ingested in it's most concentrated form.
 
Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

SMTA said:
No, it was due to the absence of foreign chemical regulation.
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Do you even know what was accidentally spilled?

The Ganges is 100x more worse than this, yet people bathe, drink and eat the fish from that water everyday..
 
Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

I am from there. WV used to be heavy in the chemical base but their past govenor shut them all down basically. it killed much of the employment in the area and now there is little work to be found.

so far there are at least 34 people (possibly more) in the hospital due to reactions from this chemical.

they are having to fly water in from outside area's. my parents are right in the middle of this thing. I grew up around them. The company was negligant period.

These tanks have sensors on them and they are computered monitored to show level's. if the tank was leaking then someone should have seen it not only that someone would have seen the overflow tank filling up as well. i also know the guys that work for some of these plants. it was cold and no one wanted to go outside and do the typical safety checks on the tanks and valves.

they are uncommon but they do happen. the lack of response from the company is what bothers me they are usually really quick to be on top of such things.

it is going to take weeks to flush the system out.
 
Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

the should have had secondary containment for the tanks, the oil industry uses berms or concrete walls to contain any potential spill from a given number of tanks in the storage area (tank farm)
 
Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

ludin said:
I am from there. WV used to be heavy in the chemical base but their past govenor shut them all down basically. it killed much of the employment in the area and now there is little work to be found.

so far there are at least 34 people (possibly more) in the hospital due to reactions from this chemical.

they are having to fly water in from outside area's. my parents are right in the middle of this thing. I grew up around them. The company was negligant period.

These tanks have sensors on them and they are computered monitored to show level's. if the tank was leaking then someone should have seen it not only that someone would have seen the overflow tank filling up as well. i also know the guys that work for some of these plants. it was cold and no one wanted to go outside and do the typical safety checks on the tanks and valves.

they are uncommon but they do happen. the lack of response from the company is what bothers me they are usually really quick to be on top of such things.

it is going to take weeks to flush the system out.
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Reactions to the chemical?

You ever see half the advertisements on TV from the drugs the FDA allegedly clears for human consumption? It only takes half the ad to listen to the notion that your dick could fall off, your ears could bleed or your stomach could calcify.

Well, I'm allergic to penicillin - yet it's saved hundreds of million of lives and is arguably the best "invention" of the 19th or 20th century.
 
Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

Mr.Nick said:
Reactions to the chemical?

You ever see half the advertisements on TV from the drugs the FDA allegedly clears for human consumption? It only takes half the ad to listen to the notion that your dick could fall off, your ears could bleed or your stomach could calcify.

Well, I'm allergic to penicillin - yet it's saved hundreds of million of lives and is arguably the best "invention" of the 19th or 20th century.
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this has to do what with the price of tea in china?

the problem is that 300k people can't use water. they can't drink it, take showers, clean their clothes, brush their teeth or anything else.
 
Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

Lord Tammerlain said:
the should have had secondary containment for the tanks, the oil industry uses berms or concrete walls to contain any potential spill from a given number of tanks in the storage area (tank farm)
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they did but it spilled over that. it leaked about 5k gallons out. that was probably after the backup tank filled up.
 
Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

ludin said:
this has to do what with the price of tea in china?

the problem is that 300k people can't use water. they can't drink it, take showers, clean their clothes, brush their teeth or anything else.
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The chemical is NOT lethal (or even harmful) in it's most condensed form...

I understand these people are worried but they CAN use the water, if they're concerned they can boil it and THEN drink it.

Of course United States citizens have been conditioned to rely on government - they can't even boil water.
 
Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

ludin said:
they did but it spilled over that. it leaked about 5k gallons out. that was probably after the backup tank filled up.
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The company I work at has secondary containment to allow for the two largest storage tanks to leak entirely, and enough on the rail spur to allow for 4 rail cars to leak entirely, without allowing for a release into the environment

That is 80 000 gallons for the rail cars and 100 000 for the tanks
 
Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

Mr.Nick said:
The chemical is NOT lethal (or even harmful) in it's most condensed form...

I understand these people are worried but they CAN use the water, if they're concerned they can boil it and THEN drink it.

Of course United States citizens have been conditioned to rely on government - they can't even boil water.
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if that is the case then why are 34 people in the hospital due to this accident? not only that but the WV Water company has issued a warning not to use any water till they can get it down to 1 in 1m. right now it is above that.
 
Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

Lord Tammerlain said:
The company I work at has secondary containment to allow for the two largest storage tanks to leak entirely, and enough on the rail spur to allow for 4 rail cars to leak entirely, without allowing for a release into the environment

That is 80 000 gallons for the rail cars and 100 000 for the tanks
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yeah i am not sure what secondary systems they have in place but whatever it was over flowed as well.
 
Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

ludin said:
if that is the case then why are 34 people in the hospital due to this accident? not only that but the WV Water company has issued a warning not to use any water till they can get it down to 1 in 1m. right now it is above that.
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Because people are more sensitive to different products - I'm deathly allergic to many myself....

There is no such thing as a product that is safe for everyone..

People need to realize this before they adore the EPA....
 
Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

Mr.Nick said:
Do you even know what was accidentally spilled?

The Ganges is 100x more worse than this, yet people bathe, drink and eat the fish from that water everyday..
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Of course - do you?
 
Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

Mr.Nick said:
Because people are more sensitive to different products - I'm deathly allergic to many myself....

There is no such thing as a product that is safe for everyone..

People need to realize this before they adore the EPA....
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I am not adoring the EPA, i grew up in that valley, my dad to this day still works for one of the remaining plants that is still active. not that one but another one.
This spill was negligence plain and simple.

I have seen the inside of those plants before. i know all the systems that they have setup to monitor and control tank levels and everything else.
someone wasn't doing their job and not paying attention to the screens.

if someone had done their inspection rounds it would have been caught as well. you don't go missing 5k+ of material and no one notice unless they simply are not paying attention.
 
Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

ludin said:
I am not adoring the EPA, i grew up in that valley, my dad to this day still works for one of the remaining plants that is still active. not that one but another one.
This spill was negligence plain and simple.

I have seen the inside of those plants before. i know all the systems that they have setup to monitor and control tank levels and everything else.
someone wasn't doing their job and not paying attention to the screens.

if someone had done their inspection rounds it would have been caught as well. you don't go missing 5k+ of material and no one notice unless they simply are not paying attention.
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So what you're getting at is that this **** was intentional and not a mistake?

If it was "intentional" I would look at the ****ing government because that is their business and has been for the last 75 years..
 
Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

Mr.Nick said:
So what you're getting at is that this **** was intentional and not a mistake?

If it was "intentional" I would look at the ****ing government because that is their business and has been for the last 75 years..
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How was it the "****ing government's" business? This is a private company that put a facility in the wrong place and didn't bother to monitor their own tanks and pipes - would have taken a few pennies out of the CEO's pay packet probably

People like you complain about the over reaching federal government with its OSHA and EPA regs but for the past few years a Republican dominated Congress has continually cut the funding for those two agencies.

As PJ O'Rourke famously stated in a speech at the Cato Institute
Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it.
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Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

Lord Tammerlain said:
The company most likely will declare bankruptcy and open up under new management within a few months
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A great prediction, and even faster then I thought it would happen

Company responsible for WV chemical leak seeks Chapter 11 protection - UPI.com

CHARLESTON, W.Va., Jan. 17 (UPI) -- Freedom Industries, responsible for the chemical leak that left portions of West Virginia without water for days, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy Friday.
The filing indicated the company's assets and liabilities as "unknown," the Charleston Gazette reported. Chemstream Holdings Inc. of Stoystown, Pa., was listed as the owner.


Read more: Company responsible for WV chemical leak seeks Chapter 11 protection - UPI.com
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Now all the lawsuits that were going to happen, as people were and should have been compensated for economic and health costs associated with the spill will go nowhere.
 
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