• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Man arrested with cache of guns, explosives

MichaelJR said:
Not much can counter some of the nasty handloads I've seen. I'm just starting to load 5.7 for my fiveseven and ps90. Turns armor into Swiss cheese. Tough to load.
Click to expand...

ceramic and steel trauma plates do. it stops SS109 Green tip 556mm which is nastier than the 5.7
 
lawboy said:
There is nothing in the 2nd that prohibits a state from enacting laws for the proper transport of a weapon in a motor vehicle.
Click to expand...

Except that, "shall not be ingringed" part of the 2nd Amendment.
 
apdst said:
Except that, "shall not be ingringed" part of the 2nd Amendment.
Click to expand...

Well, this arrest was POST McDonald, so you need to cite a case POST where such MV law is UNconstitutional.
 
lawboy said:
Well, this arrest was POST McDonald, so you need to cite a case POST where such MV law is UNconstitutional.
Click to expand...

1) if the constitution had been properly interpreted throughout history, the 2A would NOT apply to the states

2) however, after the 14th was held to apply some of the BoR to the states, the McDonald decision was correct based on that post civil war jurisprudence

3) most justices, judges and politicians KNOW that many of the gun control laws DO VIOLATE the second amendment

4) however, these political animals BELIEVE that the restrictions are beneficial to either

a) society

b) their constituents

c) their political viability

so they allow certain degrees of infringements to remain even though if you shot them full of scopolamine they would admit a violation

that being said, certain use violations probably would survive any challenge. improperly discharging a firearm would survive (such as shooting pigeons on the city square during a crowded lunchtime. brandishing weapons in a court room. Hunting in the off season and of course using a weapon to facilitate many different crimes are ll actions that I believe can constitutionally be restricted or sanctioned.
 
Right TD, I also see no constitutional problem with this;

2923.16 Improperly handling firearms in a motor vehicle.


(A) No person shall knowingly discharge a firearm while in or on a motor vehicle.

(B) No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle in such a manner that the firearm is accessible to the operator or any passenger without leaving the vehicle.

(C) No person shall knowingly transport or have a firearm in a motor vehicle, unless the person may lawfully possess that firearm under applicable law of this state or the United States, the firearm is unloaded, and the firearm is carried in one of the following ways:

(1) In a closed package, box, or case;

(2) In a compartment that can be reached only by leaving the vehicle;

(3) In plain sight and secured in a rack or holder made for the purpose;



(E) No person who has been issued a concealed handgun license, who is the driver or an occupant of a motor vehicle that is stopped as a result of a traffic stop or a stop for another law enforcement purpose or is the driver or an occupant of a commercial motor vehicle that is stopped by an employee of the motor carrier enforcement unit for the purposes defined in section 5503.34 of the Revised Code, and who is transporting or has a loaded handgun in the motor vehicle or commercial motor vehicle in any manner, shall do any of the following:

(1) Fail to promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the vehicle while stopped that the person has been issued a concealed handgun license and that the person then possesses or has a loaded handgun in the motor vehicle;

(2) Fail to promptly inform the employee of the unit who approaches the vehicle while stopped that the person has been issued a concealed handgun license and that the person then possesses or has a loaded handgun in the commercial motor vehicle;

(3) Knowingly fail to remain in the motor vehicle while stopped or knowingly fail to keep the person's hands in plain sight at any time after any law enforcement officer begins approaching the person while stopped and before the law enforcement officer leaves, unless the failure is pursuant to and in accordance with directions given by a law enforcement officer;

(4) Knowingly have contact with the loaded handgun by touching it with the person's hands or fingers in the motor vehicle at any time after the law enforcement officer begins approaching and before the law enforcement officer leaves, unless the person has contact with the loaded handgun pursuant to and in accordance with directions given by the law enforcement officer;

(5) Knowingly disregard or fail to comply with any lawful order of any law enforcement officer given while the motor vehicle is stopped, including, but not limited to, a specific order to the person to keep the person's hands in plain sight.
 
lawboy said:
Well, this arrest was POST McDonald, so you need to cite a case POST where such MV law is UNconstitutional.
Click to expand...

The Constitution says it's unconstitutional.
 
TurtleDude said:
He was pulled over for speeding-that was PC to stop the car. To ask about the weapons due to the bumper sticker?

I think the cop is going to be sustained on this one but I was noting what the defense should be
Click to expand...

Asking if there are weapons in the car is pretty standard during a traffic stop which doesn't necessarily consitute a "search." Just asked a question. The prob cause for the search was the officer noticing a gun handle between the guys legs after the guy said there are so weapons in the car. Pretty solid probable cause.
 
Fishstyx said:
Asking if there are weapons in the car is pretty standard during a traffic stop which doesn't necessarily consitute a "search." Just asked a question. The prob cause for the search was the officer noticing a gun handle between the guys legs after the guy said there are so weapons in the car. Pretty solid probable cause.
Click to expand...

Did you miss my comment that the cop is going to be sustained (i.e. his search upheld) on this one?
 
Fishstyx said:
Asking if there are weapons in the car is pretty standard during a traffic stop which doesn't necessarily consitute a "search." Just asked a question.
Click to expand...

No, it is NOT a search, and the courts have ruled that even asking the question is NOT an UNreasonable seizure.
 
lawboy said:
The textual constitution, or the case law?

The answer is none of them apply.
Click to expand...

The Constitution applies. It states that the right to "bear arms shall not be infringed. If I want to keep a gun in my dtawers, it's my God given right.
 
apdst said:
The Constitution applies. It states that the right to "bear arms shall not be infringed. If I want to keep a gun in my dtawers, it's my God given right.
Click to expand...

So, since you proceed on this premise, what does BEAR mean?
 
lawboy said:
So, since you proceed on this premise, what does BEAR mean?
Click to expand...

In the context of the Constitution, it means to carry a firearm on your person.
 
apdst said:
In the context of the Constitution, it means to carry a firearm on your person.
Click to expand...

Then why can't motor vehicle restiction pass muster, it isn't on the person sometimes?
 
lawboy said:
Then why can't motor vehicle restiction pass muster, it isn't on the person sometimes?
Click to expand...

Not if it's stowed in a rack, case, or locker.
 
apdst said:
It's not moronic. It's his civil right.
Click to expand...

Are you seriously suggesting that you would insist on "your right" to fiddle and play arround with a loaded firearm while a cop is talking to you to find out if you are a threat???????????????????
 
notquiteright said:
Question- are you a vet? I am a combat vet. Can't say that I am (and thank you for the record, nothing but love for the vets), but most of the dudes I train/shoot with regularly are.

Have you ever been an Instructor at a tacti-cool school? Nope, what school? I'm a Vickers guy, been to 4. A few other randoms around here, NH is the spot typically for the northeast. I was. I have RO'd and competed in several 3 guns I compete weekly spring summer fall. Weather around here blows between dec and march., I have YET to see anything but a 'rambo' vest on the range Yeah those are useless. I don't wear anything like that when competing, pointless really as most rigs are belt, I wear all safariland stuff.. (rambo vest is a junk carrier, no protection) Yeah I've seen a few of those clowns, 50lbs worth of useless gear in a comp, usually their excuse is 'it's my go-to rig for shtf. Ask them if they have plates....typically it's no, and usually their plate carrier is some chinese junk fraying at the shoulders but clean as a whistle as it's never seen a single day of legitimate training. I only have one for the sole reason of having plates, my gear is on my belt, my carrier is slick front and back. Fast and light as possible. Now when the High Risk Entry teams train at the facility I used to work for THEY wore full battle rattle, but never have seen a civilian bring his own ballistic vest and brain bucket to ANY match or carbine training Vickers courses I saw some people in full gear, moving at the speed of Percocet, usually winded and out of shape.... some minimal gear. I wore what I would wear typically for comp, one day I threw on the carrier for ****s and giggles, but nothing hangs off of it as I mentioned. Quite a few people wearing war belts....I'm not crazy about them. More **** to snag on and slow you down. If I can't sprint in it, I don't wear it.

Have you ever timed yourself from a sound sleep to vest on, weapon up and off safe? What was that time?
I've practiced throwing it on fast, haven't done it from a sound sleep. It's certainly an ideal situation that I could get it on, better off having it right there you know? If not, carbine is ready to go regardless, toss the carrier on after. You bring up a good point though, a carrier with level III steel plates won't be quick from a sound sleep. I do like your idea below about a shield use. Low from behind a doorway, just having it up against the frame makes a bit of sense.

I have been to Philly and Boston... the pic you tried to pawn off as 'typical cops' was the hunt for the Marathon Bomber- NOT just another day in Bean Town! :doh
Go downtown to Boston or NYC. Plenty of 'hsld' tacticool propper pants and carbines floating around. I don't agree with any of it.

I'll bet you a shiny nickle that if the cops did a no knock on your house you wouldn't have your vest on by the time they were standing in the bedroom doorway. They have a method to their madness, they know where to head first in an OH-Dark-30 breach. You'd do MUCH better to try and use the vest as a handheld shield and engage with a pistol while still in bed because you are not going to have time to wake, identify the threat, stand, put your vest on and then mount the carbine by the time the Cops are on you.
It's just me and the lady. If I hear a bang, I don't need to identify the threat as long as she's next to me, assuming the worst and reaching for the LWRC. There's plenty of green between the doorway and me, two dogs (which are dead obviously, dogs get executed in home invasions or no-knock home invasions, although they better hope they take the American bulldog down quick, he doesn't take kindly to strangers...pops basketballs like eggs)...I'd give myself a fair chance in the narrow hallway and home field advantage. Outside of that, you're correct, tactics and numbers count for quite a bit. There was a no-knock not long ago in NH, large scale steroid distributor was invaded by squad. 6 PD taken out before the dude killed himself. I suspect if it was a regular home invasion, without swat tactics, he would have lived to see another day. I always assume if someone breaks down my door, they mean me harm. I also assume it isn't PD, I'm a law abiding student. Than again...stranger things have happened. Who the hell knows, flip a coin, hope for the best.


But keep dreaming... tacti-cool schools need to make money too.... :peace
Click to expand...

Vickers is the real deal. There are a ton of schools out there, equivalent to rex-kwon-do in Napoleon dynamite. I haven't attended a single one of them, nor would I. I use what works, go where it's good, and train in that manner.

For the record, I don't own a ballistic helmet lol. Just the carrier. If I'm in need of dome frag protection, I'm ****ed anyways and probably should have gotten the **** out of there....then again, I'm not taking mortar fire. I'm just doing 3-gun and own a plate carrier. I train with my buddies, few guys that were mil, we **** around in team movements, shoot copious amounts of ammo, call each other dumb names, get drinks afterwards. We are pretty good though. In the rare case that this place broke down hardcore, I'm comfortable with my abilities, know my limits, know my gear inside and out, and I have a mean dark pair of shades.

h15551233



All this being said....a pro-2A progressive? Maybe not pro-2A, but a gun owning progressive? That's like....a caucasian member of the BPP. Just doesn't make any sense.
 
The German said:
Are you seriously suggesting that you would insist on "your right" to fiddle and play arround with a loaded firearm while a cop is talking to you to find out if you are a threat???????????????????
Click to expand...

That's not what he said.

Read his post again - the wording is simple to understand.
 
The German said:
Are you seriously suggesting that you would insist on "your right" to fiddle and play arround with a loaded firearm while a cop is talking to you to find out if you are a threat???????????????????
Click to expand...

Fiddle and play around with it? Probably not. Have it on my person, loaded? You're damn right it's my right.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom