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Ohio killer to get 2-drug injection untried in US

nota bene said:
What will states do if lethal injection is no longer an option? I mean, the guillotine is wishful thinking. How horrible to consider a return to electrocution or gassing. Maybe the real solution is to end the death penalty altogether because as a society, we can do better than killing those we convict of killing?
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Firing squad would work quite well. I see no reason to stop executing these scum. I just wish my country would bring the death penalty back.
 
nota bene said:
The problem with this Ohio cocktail appears to be the midazolam. It has been used, but not with hydromorphone, I don’t think. Here is info on a Florida lawsuit that may presage others: Florida executes inmate with controversial lethal injection ? RT USA

From New Scientist about the convicted Ohio killer referenced in the OP:

Anaesthesiologist David Waisel at Harvard University is concerned Phillips [child killer whose offer of organ donation gained him a stay of execution in November] may not be rendered sufficiently unconscious by the injected midazolam before the high dose of hydromorphone – which can cause soft tissue in the throat to collapse – takes effect. "That would cause a truly horrible suffocating sensation," he says.

In October, William Happ, a convicted murderer in Florida, was executed using midazolam and two other drugs. Witnesses said he endured a longer death and moved more frequently than is usual. Options running out for the US death penalty - health - 12 November 2013 - New Scientist

The larger problem is that execution drugs are not going to become more readily available. See link above re some states turning to compounding pharmacies, which are unregulated by the FDA.

What will states do if lethal injection is no longer an option? I mean, the guillotine is wishful thinking. How horrible to consider a return to electrocution or gassing. Maybe the real solution is to end the death penalty altogether because as a society, we can do better than killing those we convict of killing?
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We use opiates and benzo's rapid IV push all the time, and its lights out. A mega dose of either would be a fairly comfortable and quick way to go.

Hitting from two different MOA's would likely work even quicker.

Face it-you are against the DP in any form-so lets not pretend that you are doing anything but supporting ways to make it even more difficult.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Why ?
?
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Well a good reason would be to ask, why do you need the death penalty?

Is it because of some sort of revenge? In which case is it the states job to enforce the revenge?

Is it because you think they are a danger to society? Well in that case life in prison, problem solved

I'll be honest here, I'm for the death penalty for the revenge factor but I understand that it shouldn't be the states job to do this. I just think some people should die instead of be jailed.
 
US Conservative said:
We use opiates and benzo's rapid IV push all the time, and its lights out. A mega dose of either would be a fairly comfortable and quick way to go.

Hitting from two different MOA's would likely work even quicker.

Face it-you are against the DP in any form-so lets not pretend that you are doing anything but supporting ways to make it even more difficult.
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I don't know why the states don't use what you describe. Do you know why?

Yes, I am opposed to the death penalty. But I assure you that there are many, many people who support it who do not want those being executed to suffering cruelly.

Some of the comments on this thread are pretty depressing. There is a difference between justice and vengeance, and even the very worst of us all remains a human being.
 
TurtleDude said:
hanging, the chair and firing squads have long track records. I figure hanging is the least expensive and as quick as the other two
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rope is cheap. it was good enough for Saddam.
 
nota bene said:
There is a difference between justice and vengeance, and even the very worst of us all remains a human being.
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In many of the death penalty cases, especially the ones where the killer has no remorse for what they did, I don't see anything human in there.
 
OscarB63 said:
rope is cheap. it was good enough for Saddam.
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plus you can harvest the organs for medical reasons. Not so when you gas, fry, shoot or poison a prisoner.

since we are becoming a green society hanging should be used

1) recycle organs of the executed

2) ropes can be used several times

3) doesn't use electricity

4) no danger to the guards of toxic gases

5) no whining pharmaceutical companies-its not like rope makers are gonna know why the bureau of prisons is buying a few dozen yards of sisal or manila rope
 
TheNextEra said:
In many of the death penalty cases, especially the ones where the killer has no remorse for what they did, I don't see anything human in there.
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QFT- like those two assholes in CT who bludgeoned a man, raped his wife and daughters-made the wife go to a bank to withdraw money as ransom for the girls, raped them again and burned the girls alive

I am pretty well read on medieval europe and all the horrific execution methods used in the name of "christ" back then. The wheel, the pear, the rack, impalement etc. nothing would be too horrible for those two scumbags.
 
nota bene said:
I don't know why the states don't use what you describe. Do you know why?

Yes, I am opposed to the death penalty. But I assure you that there are many, many people who support it who do not want those being executed to suffering cruelly.

Some of the comments on this thread are pretty depressing. There is a difference between justice and vengeance, and even the very worst of us all remains a human being.
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Because they need to use medical literature, and the anti-death penalty crowd knows this.
Benzo's are standard before an execution.
Whats new is using them with opiates-in the US 40K die per year by this route.

We know how it works, and frankly we should just use these drugs as they are cheap and plentiful. Potassium can be painful IV, the benefit of this setup is even if it did cause pain-the person would never feel it.
 
TurtleDude said:
plus you can harvest the organs for medical reasons. Not so when you gas, fry, shoot or poison a prisoner.

since we are becoming a green society hanging should be used

1) recycle organs of the executed

2) ropes can be used several times

3) doesn't use electricity

4) no danger to the guards of toxic gases

5) no whining pharmaceutical companies-its not like rope makers are gonna know why the bureau of prisons is buying a few dozen yards of sisal or manila rope
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Im all for it, or even a long drop followed immediately by a shot to the head.
 
US Conservative said:
Im all for it, or even a long drop followed immediately by a shot to the head.
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the Army issued a manual on hanging based on the weight of the prisoner and the drop to assure a clean break. if you do it right its instantaneous. as opposed to the David Carradine version
 
TheNextEra said:
In many of the death penalty cases, especially the ones where the killer has no remorse for what they did, I don't see anything human in there.
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yep.

Richard Trenton Chase (May 23, 1950 – December 26, 1980) was an American serial killer who killed six people in the span of a month in California. He earned the nickname The Vampire of Sacramento due to his drinking of his victims’ blood and his cannibalism

Jeffrey Dahmer murdered at least 17 men and boys between 1978 and 1991, with the majority of the murders occurring between 1989 and 1991. His murders were particularly gruesome, involving acts of forced sodomy, necrophilia, dismemberment, and cannibalism.

Dennis Rader is an American serial killer who murdered at least 10 people in Sedgwick County (in and around Wichita), Kansas, between 1974 and 1991. He was known as the BTK killer (or the BTK strangler), which stands for Bind, Torture and Kill, an apt description of his modus operandi. Letters were written soon after the killings to police and to local news outlets, boasting of the crimes and knowledge of details.

Ted Bundy (November 24, 1946 – January 24, 1989) is one of the most infamous serial killers in U.S. history. Bundy raped and murdered scores of young women across the United States between 1974 and 1978. After more than a decade of vigorous denials, Bundy eventually confessed to 30 murders, although the actual total of victims remains unknown. Typically, Bundy would rape then murder his victims by bludgeoning, and sometimes by strangulation. He also engaged in necrophilia.

David Berkowitz, killed six people while alerting the police and media detailing his crimes

Two bodies found in Seattle’s Green River in 1982 were the first of dozens of bodies – many of whom were young female prostitutes – discovered throughout Washington during the next several years. The culprit was Gary Ridgway, or The Green River Killer, who wasn’t officially identified until 2001 despite being subject to suspicion not long after his first crimes were committed. He would eventually confess to 48 murders.

Belle Gunness killed more than 40 people on her Indiana farm, including her own two children, husbands and potential suitors who she lured to her property through personal ads

John Wayne Gacy, Richard Ramirez, Ed Gein, Coral Watts, Dean Corll, Richard Angelo, Albert Fish, Angel Maturino Resendiz
 
TurtleDude said:
QFT- like those two assholes in CT who bludgeoned a man, raped his wife and daughters-made the wife go to a bank to withdraw money as ransom for the girls, raped them again and burned the girls alive

I am pretty well read on medieval europe and all the horrific execution methods used in the name of "christ" back then. The wheel, the pear, the rack, impalement etc. nothing would be too horrible for those two scumbags.
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Yea, I followed that case, and spoke about it with the wife and kids as a teaching moment.

One of the most sad and horrific cases I have ever heard about.

Monsters like those 2 need to die to stop then from ever doing that again.

They just did not respect life.
 
CanadaJohn said:
If you believe in the death penalty, you should have no problem with this. Testing? Why should untold rats, guinea pigs, and monkeys have to die in order to "test" the lethal dose of a chemical? With thousands of prisoners on death rows in dozens of US states, I see nothing wrong with doing the "testing" on them, provided there is no possibility they were convicted wrongly. Better a deserving sub-human should suffer and die than an undeserving innocent animal.
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Because cruel and unusual punishment is a thing we're not fans of in the United States. Don't know how you guys do it up there in the tundra.

And since when is there ever "no possibility" they were convicted wrongly? There's quite a few people who've been executed only to have reasonable doubt come up later. (and I know at least one case of a guy outright proven to be innocent of murdering his children, a crime for which he was executed. Ugh, worst way to go)
 
SMTA said:
Humans are not perfect, so that risk will always be there.

The current judicial system is certainly not perfect, but there are a plethora of checks and balances in capital murder trials.

The fallout is worth the risk in order to keep psycho killers away from the population.
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Not if you're the innocent dead guy or his family it's not worth it. If it's just to keep psycho killers away from the population, life-long imprisonment achieves the same.
 
Abolish the death penalty, legalize most narcotics & drugs, impose sentencing maximums not minimums, reform the penal system with an emphasis on actual rehabilitation, promote independent prosecutorial and police oversight, and seriously consider steps for the defacto federalization of prisons... or keep debating on what chemical combination the state should be using to execute one of its citizens while doing nothing to address crime, our atrocious incarceration rates, and the groaning cost of our penal system.
 
Scrabaholic said:
Which is why I have no problem with execution - these pieces of crap don't deserve to live and sometimes I think their method of execution should be in the same manner as they killed their victim.
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I, personally, don't support the death penalty, but I do support the approach you take on this issue. It's hypocritical, in my view, to be in favour of administering death as a punishment yet be "comforted" somehow in one particular method as opposed to another.
 
SMTA said:
Why not let the victim's family decide the method?

Or, utilize the same method of killing that the convicted killer used on their victims.

I am fine with either way.
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I'm not in favour of the death penalty, but I fully understand the sentiment you express - there are many families of victims who take a path of forgiveness as a means of healing and moving on - others are very much into equal vengence - I hope I'm never in the situation of having to think about it from a personal perspective.
 
Deuce said:
Because cruel and unusual punishment is a thing we're not fans of in the United States. Don't know how you guys do it up there in the tundra.

And since when is there ever "no possibility" they were convicted wrongly? There's quite a few people who've been executed only to have reasonable doubt come up later. (and I know at least one case of a guy outright proven to be innocent of murdering his children, a crime for which he was executed. Ugh, worst way to go)
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Firstly, it's friggen cold here today in the "tundra". Secondly, we don't have the death penalty here and I don't personally support the death penalty.

As for "no possibility" of someone being wrongly convicted, there are many cases where it is unquestionable who killed and how - I can think of many cases here in Canada and I'm sure there are hundreds of such convicted murderers on death rows throughout the US.
 
CanadaJohn said:
I'm not in favour of the death penalty, but I fully understand the sentiment you express - there are many families of victims who take a path of forgiveness as a means of healing and moving on - others are very much into equal vengence - I hope I'm never in the situation of having to think about it from a personal perspective.
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I am not ecstatic about it either, but look at it as a necessary evil.

Victims families who forgive murders are much better Christians than I.
 
Lursa said:
Not if you're the innocent dead guy or his family it's not worth it. If it's just to keep psycho killers away from the population, life-long imprisonment achieves the same.
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I still accept the fallout.

It is statistically insufficient I am sure.

Felons have many opportunities in our legal system to protect them.

Advancements in DNA typing are substantially better than years ago.
 
Just as an aside here, and not to get the thread off-track, but I do find it odd that assisted suicide seems to be a fairly easy thing to accomplish in a "humane" way but the moral question is troubling and yet the death penalty seems to be a difficult thing to accomplish in a "humane" way but the moral question is pretty settled in the majority of people's minds.

I support assisted suicide. How can you "humanely" end the life of someone suffering and yet you can't "humanely" end the life of a convict on death row?
 
CanadaJohn said:
Firstly, it's friggen cold here today in the "tundra". Secondly, we don't have the death penalty here and I don't personally support the death penalty.

As for "no possibility" of someone being wrongly convicted, there are many cases where it is unquestionable who killed and how - I can think of many cases here in Canada and I'm sure there are hundreds of such convicted murderers on death rows throughout the US.
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Greetings, CJ. :2wave:

As MMC posted earlier, we in NE Ohio and Chicago are going to leave the "balmy" 20s we've been enjoying, and it's going to get COLD! It's been snowing all day long, and the wind has picked up now, so I guess some minus degrees will be reached. Brrrr! I assume that a little personal anti-freeze in the form of an adult beverage is called for...what think you? :mrgreen:
 
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