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One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows[W:571]

Peter Grimm said:
I reject evolution. I think it's crap.

Also, did you know that there was once a debate between two guys named Wilberforce and Huxley, and Wilberforce asked Huxley "Was it through your grandmother or your grandfather that you're descended from a monkey?"

Just thought I'd throw that historical gem out there for the sake of knowledge.

Also, did you know that there is an Australopithecus named Lucy who some believe is an ancestor of us all? Far out huh?
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ROFLMAO! Er....what "knowlege?"


And do you even know what Australopithecus was?
 
longview said:
If people do are do not believe in evolution, is irrelevant, and impacts almost no one.
I would more concerned about the number of people who believe the Goverment
is the solution to their problems.
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That would be fine if some public schools did not keep trying to teach it in science classes.
 
Peter Grimm said:
I accept the unknown as it is. We're but a speck in the universe, almost completely insignificant. We think we're smart, but if you really think about it, we know next to nothing.
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Speak for yourself.
 
Lursa said:
That would be fine if some public schools did not keep trying to teach it in science classes.
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correct it has ZERO place in science class or any mandatory class


its really simple actually all on has to do is thank about it like a court case.


a court case based on the facts, science, logical , theories, evidence etc of evolution could get a conviction

a court case based a court case based on the facts, science, logical , theories, evidence etc of creationism wouldnt even get charges brought up, it would never make it to court.
 
Peter Grimm said:
You've won a Nobel Prize?

You want evidence that evolution is bogus? OK here's a start. About 90 billion neurons in the human brain, all hooked up in a specific intricate pattern. There are about 45 miles of nerves in the human body, all wired up in a specific intricate pattern.

I could go on. Complexity, at the end of the day, is why I don't believe in evolution.
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Irreducible complexity is not a good argument against evolution. Just because you struggle to comprehend it =/= evolution isn't real.

Read: http://dx.doi.org/10.1086/392687
 
Peter Grimm said:
At the end of the day, if I really sat down and worked on it, I could probably come up with a way to mathematically show that life on earth, let alone complex life, is highly improbable. In fact, it's nearly impossible.
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Do it, demonstrate it, show the world your intellectual prowess and foresight.

Peter Grimm said:
But in the end, even that wouldn't prove a thing - in fact I think most smart people would agree with it. We may well be the only intelligent creatures in the universe.
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Maybe....doubtful......but maybe.

Peter Grimm said:
Perhaps the odds of intelligent life forming are 1 in several billion (which is why I don't like evolution inherently),
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You don't like evolution because you made up a number to ascribe to the probability with no real evidence or work to suggest that number is reasonable? Interesting.

Peter Grimm said:
but perhaps this is the one place where that 1 in several billion just happened to take place.
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Or it's not 1 in several billion. Still....lots of planets out there

Peter Grimm said:
So in other words - I don't believe in evolution because the evolution of complex life is improbable. However, just being improbable doesn't mean it's proven false.
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So as I said initially, you're assuming that the aggregated "complexity" couldn't be naturally derived. But it's not on fact or logical argument you make this claim, it's an arbitrary number you've invented.
 
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Closed for review.
 
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Reopening this thread. Moderation has occurred. Personal comments, baiting and flaming are at an end, now, or there will be points and/or thread bans issued. Tread lightly and consider this a zero-tolerance warning.
 
Peter Grimm said:
You've won a Nobel Prize?

You want evidence that evolution is bogus? OK here's a start. About 90 billion neurons in the human brain, all hooked up in a specific intricate pattern. There are about 45 miles of nerves in the human body, all wired up in a specific intricate pattern.

I could go on. Complexity, at the end of the day, is why I don't believe in evolution.

I have yet to see a process by which random mutations can occur that lead to such astounding levels of complexity. Natural selection is not enough
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What information are you basing 90 billion neurons and their need to be arranged in an exact pattern on? How do you know that? How was it proven and how do you know it wont be changed significantly?

The fact that you think evolution is driven by random mutation shows you do not understand the basic mechanisms. So you are not in a position to deny evolution. You can question it, which any intelligent person might do...and learn about it. But from your postings, you do not understand it. Billions of years allows for alot of genetic shuffling and recombination.

Lursa said:
The biggest misconception in understanding evolution is the belief it's based on genetic mutation.

It is not. That is a minor factor and more often has negative rather than positive consequences

Evolution is simply a population's genetic complement *changing* in response to environmental influences.

If there are no significant environmental changes or stresses, then the population...or even species...will remain basically unchanged.
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Lursa said:
The fact that you think evolution is driven by random mutation shows you do not understand the basic mechanisms.
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Apparently the key talking point for the anti-creationism crowd is that if anyone doesn't believe in evolution, they must not understand it.


Actually, evolution is driven by random mutation.

Organisms mutate at random. Some mutations are selected for, some simply die out. Selection occurs either due to sexual selection or just due to a higher rate of survival for those organisms with the mutated genes.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

I debated this in another forum with people. I see there are too many posts for me to get through here in a quick fashion. Nobody was able to show me the actual poll and actual question by question results. Only paraphrased results in the Pew summary. Not only is the actual wording important, but so are the 53 questions leading up to question 54. These previous questions can put people in a certain mindset when answering.

Anyone have a link to all the questions and responses?
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Lord of Planar said:
I debated this in another forum with people. I see there are too many posts for me to get through here in a quick fashion. Nobody was able to show me the actual poll and actual question by question results. Only paraphrased results in the Pew summary. Not only is the actual wording important, but so are the 53 questions leading up to question 54. These previous questions can put people in a certain mindset when answering.

Anyone have a link to all the questions and responses?
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Don't know if this helps, but here is the pew article on the poll...

Public

Problem is, I don't see a link in that for the internals of the poll....
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

j-mac said:
Don't know if this helps, but here is the pew article on the poll...

Public

Problem is, I don't see a link in that for the internals of the poll....
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No.

That doesn't help.

That's their summary. I have no idea how many questions are in the poll, but please note... The question they focus on is question #54...

What are all the questions that lead up to it?
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Lord of Planar said:
No.

That doesn't help.

That's their summary. I have no idea how many questions are in the poll, but please note... The question they focus on is question #54...

What are all the questions that lead up to it?
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Still looking, but here is a transcript of the phone news conference on the poll

Pew Forum and Pew Research Center Release Second Annual Poll | Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project

I find it odd that they are going to such lengths to make it hard to see the internals...
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

j-mac said:
I find it odd that they are going to such lengths to make it hard to see the internals...
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That enforces my view about how leading question can impact a poll. Why do they not what us to see them?
 
Peter Grimm said:
Man, what is with all the personal attacks on this thread? Are you guys really this afraid to actually debate the issue of evolution?

Fair warning: I've been reporting each personal attack to the mods.
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You're welcome for letting you know.
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Geezuz Pete ... hope you didn't really do something so petty.
Be bigger.
The worst kind of people here do that.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Hang on there... it is possible to find naturalistic explanations for the origin of life that aren't evolution without a creator or religion.

Panspermia, for example, is a better theory in my view. Silly as it sounds, the universe is a big place.... who knows what's out there.
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Can I ask why you think Panspermia is a better theory? Unless a space ark deposited creatures a diverse as giraffes, whales, monkeys, dogs, snakes and all else evolution would still have to occur to produce the diversity we see today. Panspermia posits the unlikelihood of some common ancestor deposited here from space (and where did that come from and how was it created?) in addition to evolution getting us where we are now.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

bubbabgone said:
Well ... when I saw the name E.J. Dionne at the link I was tempted to be more skeptical.
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Amazing isn't it? The incestuous relationship between outlets, research, and narrative in order to create a circle of self backing claim isn't it?
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

j-mac said:
Amazing isn't it? The incestuous relationship between outlets, research, and narrative in order to create a circle of self backing claim isn't it?
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Purely coincidental.
It's not like you might find a certain kind of person in a certain kind of position because they want to exert a certain kind of influence.
I hope I've made myself clear.
 
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