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One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows[W:571]

Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

clownboy said:
Nonsense. Selective adaption does not at all equal evolution. Perhaps we aren't doing enough to teach evolutionary theory in schools after all.



No, that's absolutely false. A few biology courses should clear that up for you.



So, that species of bacteria adapted to it's environment but did not evolve to a new species. That doesn't show macro evolution. And the rest is just your excuse. Species is NOT a fuzzy term.
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Bacteria don't interbreed. What was that you said about biology courses?
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

I guess we're done discussing evolution, and we'll just move onto attacking Christians?

Hasta manana.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

j-mac said:
Well, if evolution is correct then what did life evolve from?
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I don't know. Abiogensis proposes some mechanisms, but it's not well understood at this point.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

j-mac said:
To dismiss because you can't answer them is not any conclusion that you are right.
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OK, I'll play, what evidence do those who believe in intelligent design or creationism have that disproves the evolutionary theory? And again, let's just say the fossil record is lying, don't we still have to ask why it took so friggin long for modern humans to arrive? Either God or the Aliens must have been really bad at getting it right the first time.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

j-mac said:
Well, if evolution is correct then what did life evolve from?
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Evolution describes the change in living organisms. Life evolves from other life. The term you are looking for is "abiogenesis," which describes how something not-alive turns into something that is.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

j-mac said:
I assume you are of the evolution side as being this "one side requires facts" crowd. Yet you do not tackle one of the 5 items I list the evolution side as having a problem with explaining....Why?
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Simple. Science doesn't yet have all the answers, nor does it pretend to. It doesn't hide behind 'mysterious ways' to document its evidence.

Not sure why this is any point of contention. You can tell a believer anything. You can tell them that the earth was underwater for 40 days and nights, and a guy named Noah went out and collected two of every species of animals and put them on a boat.

Science will tell you that civilizations existed before, during, and after Noah's flood .. thus it could not have happened.

Facts are not required in religion, thus the comparison between religion and science is no comparison at all.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

j-mac said:
Well, isn't that convenient.....Almost the same as saying 'God created the heavens, and earth'....
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No, you're just attacking the wrong theory. I mean, the law of momentum doesn't describe how life first formed either, but you don't seem to suggest this means momentum is wrong.

Evolution doesn't describe the origin of life and never has tried.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Gardener said:
It makes perfect sense, really.

Those who have not evolved just cannot imagine the process.
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If you could go back in time I doubt that you could find many Neanderthals interested in discussing evolution.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Deuce said:
Bacteria don't interbreed. What was that you said about biology courses?
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Bacterial reproduction most commonly occurs by a kind of cell division called binary fission. Binary fission results in the formation of two bacterial cells that are genetically identical. Binary fission is an effective way for bacteria to reproduce, however it does introduce problems. Since the cells produced through this type of reproduction are identical, they are all susceptible to the same types of antibiotics. Through bacterial recombination, bacteria can gain genetic variation by incorporating genes from other bacteria.
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Guess they covered bacterial recombination on your absent days.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

clownboy said:
Guess they covered bacterial recombination on your absent days.
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Wait a minute, so this change in DNA can cause...changes in the bacteria? You don't say...
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

j-mac said:
IMHO, Agent J hits the nail on the head in this....The article is setting up a false dichotomy here...Although it is my own perception, and experience that new generations entering society seem to be dense when it comes to expanded thinking on subjects, recent generations are shallow, and self absorbed in their thinking which I think leads to this conclusion of PEW in the poll.

adpst also made a salient point early on, for those who believe in God. Which is to say that as a believer, God created everything, and also created evolution, as a part and whole of free will.
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My question is why would an omnipotent God, who could create perfect beings, need evolution?
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

j-mac said:
Well, if evolution is correct then what did life evolve from?
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Let me give it a try, the theory says at one point in time there were two populations of single cell species that developed an ability to create a gene flow between themselves. Eventually, environmental barriers isolated populations which caused genetic and phenotypic differences that accumulated over time. In the millions of years these organisms evolved and barriers were removed with the advent of the Earth's evolution, populations became reproductively isolated and became separate species that evolved differently to become what now lives on the Earth today.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Deuce said:
Wait a minute, so this change in DNA can cause...changes in the bacteria? You don't say...
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Genetic variation. Throwing spaghetti against the wall to see what sticks is no substitute for knowing the subject at hand. And still you have not arrived at any demonstration of macro evolution.

You need to be reminded I suppose - I am not saying it does not exist. Just that we have not observed it as yet. We have hints and indications that suggest it might exist, but that's about where we are.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

clownboy said:
Genetic variation. Throwing spaghetti against the wall to see what sticks is no substitute for knowing the subject at hand.
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So how do you handwave ring species then?
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Kreton said:
Alot of people hold a belief that people are here as a result of creationism or evolution. Some people are going to stick with creationism. But one doesn't really negate the other. Science and religion dont negate one another. Science is nothing more than understanding the process that took place. It doesn't necessarily mean that a higher power didn't put that process in place. If you believe in a God you don't know Gods processes or exactly how he made man, only that he did.
Evolution may be God's process of creation
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Are you saying that God is not omnipotent?

An omnipotent God would not need to use the process of evolution. He could just create perfect beings from the beginning.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

j-mac said:
Oh please....Whatever caricature you can invent to make yourself superior...Not helpful to the discussion though.
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Not sure why you would say that, but OK . . . you tell me . . . what kind of caricature do you think I invented? Superior to what? You want to equate intelligent design with evolution despite the science. I don't . . . how does that make me superior? Just because I believe in a theory that exists due in part to the facts? Again, I believe in gravity too. Hope I'm not being to superior with that one.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

calamity said:
Often what I see is a religious defender of creationism who rejects the theory of evolution argues that TOE lacks conclusive proof. They reject evidence, ignoring the likelihood that since our DNA is over 99% identical to the Bonobo and Chimp we must share a common ancestor, arguing we lack proof, asking that we show them a direct DNA link to this ancestor. Repeatedly they raise the bar like this.

However...these same people will believe every word of their Intelligent Design theory on the flimsiest of evidence. It's maddening.
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We're supposed to be made in the image of God so any implication that we came from monkeys is very offensive to some Christians.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Deuce said:
So how do you handwave ring species then?
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No handwaving, so-called ring species are a good hint, a good indication, macro evolution may in fact exist. They are not however observable proof of macro evolution.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Lursa said:
We're supposed to be made in the image of God so any implication that we came from monkeys is very offensive to some Christians.
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Well they shouldn't be offended because that is not what evolution says. It says we evolved from a common primate ancestor.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

DiavoTheMiavo said:
Well they shouldn't be offended because that is not what evolution says. It says we evolved from a common primate ancestor.
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Besides, I thought it is thought more likely to be the lemur.

grumpylemurcigar-wallpaper.jpg
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

j-mac said:
Never said it did....
But one thing science has perpetually had a problem with explaining is what caused the big bang? Where did it come from?
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It probably evolved from the little bang.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

clownboy said:
No handwaving, so-called ring species are a good hint, a good indication, macro evolution may in fact exist. They are not however observable proof of macro evolution.
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:lamo if you say so.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Hamster Buddha said:
It's not like there aren't holes in the theory of Evolution anyways. Heck that theory has been under revision since Darwin first presented it. So if it's a choice to of putting my faith in a plan that has more holes than Swiss cheese, or in my God, than that's where it will rest. All that being said, I think arguing the point is mute from a religious perspective.
If we truly could prove that God created everything, than there would be no reason for faith.
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But since you can't prove it, you have to buy into the creation myth, virgin birth and the rest of the malarkey.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Ikari said:
I don't know. Abiogensis proposes some mechanisms, but it's not well understood at this point.
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Well then, how do you know that intelligent design doesn't account for something?
 
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