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One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows[W:571]

Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows


1/3 sounds about right to me. 30% is a number that pops up with some frequency in polling when it comes to political and culture issues, such as the 28-32% who stuck with Bush Jr. til the very end, or 25% against abortion (illegal in most cases), or the 27% that believe that global warming is a hoax, or the 27% that view the Republican party "very favorably."
 
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Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

What - democrats don't go to church or believe in the Bible? It's not a partisan affiliation, you know. My mother's republican and my father (a minister) is a democrat.

Democrats can be just as crazy, but usually the crazy Christians who believe the earth is 6000 years old, etc. are Republicans.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Democrats can be just as crazy, but usually the crazy Christians who believe the earth is 6000 years old, etc. are Republicans.

I thought it was 4000 years old.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

1/3 of Americans probably didn't descend from amoebic slime.

Oh hey, it's the guy who thinks Berkeley professors are morons. Maybe he can teach us science!
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

I thought it was 4000 years old.

4004 BC in October on a Tuesday, I believe, without googling it. You can double check if you'd like.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

4004 BC in October on a Tuesday, I believe, without googling it. You can double check if you'd like.

Yep, you're right.

"Young Earth creationism (YEC) is the religious belief[1] that the Universe, Earth and all life on Earth were created by direct acts of the Abrahamic God during a relatively short period, sometime between 5,700 and 10,000 years ago.[2] Its primary adherents are those Christians and Jews[3] who, using a literal interpretation of the Genesis creation narrative as a basis, believe that God created the Earth in six 24-hour days.[4][5]"
Young Earth creationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are Jews who believe that too? Damn, that's depressing.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Democrats can be just as crazy, but usually the crazy Christians who believe the earth is 6000 years old, etc. are Republicans.


No baby - no. It's NOT a Republican thing. The belief pre-dates the concept of reps and dems by centuries. You need to pay a BIT more attention to things. Go to a baptist church for starters.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

No baby - no. It's NOT a Republican thing. The belief pre-dates the concept of reps and dems by centuries. You need to pay a BIT more attention to things. Go to a baptist church for starters.

Regardless, the divide is very much a Republican/Democrat thing now. There's isn't a poll out there that'll say otherwise.

Anecdotally, in my entire history of online debates I've never met a liberal/democrat who believed in creationism.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

No baby - no. It's NOT a Republican thing. The belief pre-dates the concept of reps and dems by centuries. You need to pay a BIT more attention to things. Go to a baptist church for starters.

True, but the literal creationists tend to be far more represented in the Republicans. Remember Huntsman's statement in the primary? He alluded that his party would have to call him CRAZY for accepting evolution.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

It baffles me that people can "reject" evolution when it happens, observably, every single day with antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

Life adapts.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Oh, I don't think that completely random evolution is really a sensible option.





Okay - who here rejects evolution?

Show of hands please.


"Republicans" are growing skeptical???? Really?

Like there's growing evidence against evolution?
I find evloution to be an aspect of nature, but to be insufficient.

I've done a lot of coding of one kind or another over the years. And my impression is that an essentially random set variations or mutations in a complex binary code would result in system failure far more often than in positive traits that would then presumably be passed on if the individual reproduced successfully.

And then we have complex multi-cellular forms in competition with pathogenic asexual single cell forms which are able to mutate far more quickly. And yet, so far at least, no single sell form has succeeded in wiping out other forms entirely. That really shouldn't be all that difficult either. In other words, with the incentive simple life has to fill the world with it own form, and given that bacteria for instance can mutate so very fast, why has no bacterium ever eliminated all the competition?

But a the same time, nature supposedly has created a far more cumbersome and fragile species in the form of humans, that mutates much more slowly than any germ, but seems to be on the cusp of the ultimate power of eliminating all competitive forms.

That is of course, not terribly mathematical reasoning, and descends largely from my own impressions. But it still seems to me that evolution in and of itself is inadequate to the type, variety and interdependence found in modern life. People often state "how old" life in Earth is. But really it isn't all that old, even if you allow one non-fatal gene mutation per species per day that is then passed on successfully, and this is before we even consider whether the mutations described impart any improved chance of survival. Three billion years times three hundred and sixty five and a quarter days, it is still a manageable number, and represents far fewer mutations than I expect would be required to produce such an organized system.

I'm not articulating this terribly well, but better authors than I have.

I do think that we well might suffer from a common fallacy. To illustrate, if we were all intelligent insects, and we'd arisen from our eggs and cocoons in a well manicured family garden during the two week that the family was away on vacation, we might well come to the conclusion that the trimmed hedges and rows of flowers had all occurred just as they were by purely natural causes, because we'd never seen humans planting and trimming.

So, I have little trouble accepting evolution per se, but I do believe that other agents are at work.
 
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Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

It baffles me that people can "reject" evolution when it happens, observably, every single day with antibiotic-resistant bacteria.Life adapts.
They do this by splitting evolution up into macro and micro evolution. No, I'm not saying it's smart, I'm just saying that's how they rationalize it.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

They do this by splitting evolution up into macro and micro evolution. No, I'm not saying it's smart, I'm just saying that's how they rationalize it.

I know. Even though macroevolution is just microevolution, in a much longer timeframe.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

They do this by splitting evolution up into macro and micro evolution. No, I'm not saying it's smart, I'm just saying that's how they rationalize it.

Well, on the bright side, at least their bizarre obsession with the eye has died down in recent years.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Well, on the bright side, at least their bizarre obsession with the eye has died down in recent years.

Don't forget the banana. That's our greatest nightmare, you know.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

I know. Even though macroevolution is just microevolution, in a much longer timeframe.

Except that 6000 years isn't long enough for microevolution to result in speciation. QED.

Have you ever seen a cat turn into a whale? Exactly.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

I'd venture to guess that it's not growing skeptisism of the evidence but rather a growing of reactionary behavior. "My political opposition believes this so I will take the opposite position regardless of evidence."

Who would knowingly appear that ignorant on purpose?
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Except that 6000 years isn't long enough for microevolution to result in speciation. QED.

Have you ever seen a cat turn into a whale? Exactly.

I fully admit to not being terrible educated in this area. But I've long had a question. Supposedly, one of the things that defines a sexually reproducing species, is its inability to breed with other species.

So when the first mutant appears as the sole representative of a news species, how does it have little mutants?
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

It baffles me that people can "reject" evolution when it happens, observably, every single day with antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

Life adapts.

They rationalize that as 'micro-evolution.'
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

The biggest misconception in understanding evolution is the belief it's based on genetic mutation.

It is not. That is a minor factor and more often has negative rather than positive consequences

Evolution is simply a population's genetic complement *changing* in response to environmental influences.

If there are no significant environmental changes or stresses, then the population...or even species...will remain unchanged. See: horseshoe crab.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

I fully admit to not being terrible educated in this area. But I've long had a question. Supposedly, one of the things that defines a sexually reproducing species, is its inability to breed with other species.

So when the first mutant appears as the sole representative of a news species, how does it have little mutants?

What's missing at the heart of your question is an understanding of time and geological isolation that allows speciation to occur. If you have one species and a group of that species migrates to another location, in time (a long, long time), that group will evolve into a species that is different from the original. Should those two groups meet up again and attempt to mate, they will either not be able to reproduce or its young will be sterile. With enough speciation the two wouldn't even dream of attempting to mate with each other.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

The biggest misconception in understanding evolution is the belief it's based on genetic mutation.

It is not. That is a minor factor and more often has negative rather than positive consequences

Evolution is simply a population's genetic complement *changing* in response to environmental influences.

If there are no significant environmental changes or stresses, then the population...or even species...will remain unchanged. See: horseshoe crab.

I've always understood most mutations to be neutral. It's the negative ones that get filtered out fairly quickly with the positive ones resulting in a higher chance of survival in the face of a changing environment.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

I've always understood most mutations to be neutral. It's the negative ones that get filtered out fairly quickly with the positive ones resulting in a higher chance of survival in reaction to a changing environment.

I'd say their influence on evolution is mostly neutral. A negative mutation wont hurt a natural population.....it wont succeed. However we do promote negative mutations and traits (not the same things but we exploit mutations to create 'traits') in our domestic animal & plant population and support their propagation thru our influence.

And here, by negative I mean mutations that would not enhance a population's adaptation and survival.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

The biggest misconception in understanding evolution is the belief it's based on genetic mutation.

It is not. That is a minor factor and more often has negative rather than positive consequences

Evolution is simply a population's genetic complement *changing* in response to environmental influences.

If there are no significant environmental changes or stresses, then the population...or even species...will remain unchanged. See: horseshoe crab.

This is a little wrong.

The horse shoe crab has gone through significant environmental changes or stresses, it's just that the genotypes producing the phenotypes have been successful enough not to warrant significant allele changes. The horseshoe crab today guaranteed is not the same genetically as the one a million years ago.

Evolution is partially based on genetic mutation, but it's not entirely based on it.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

I fully admit to not being terrible educated in this area. But I've long had a question. Supposedly, one of the things that defines a sexually reproducing species, is its inability to breed with other species.

So when the first mutant appears as the sole representative of a news species, how does it have little mutants?

There's interbreeding (a male donkey and a female horse = mule). These hybrid animals cannot reproduce. Mules don't have mule babies. They are mere a byproduct of mating between two similar species.

Then there's evolution - passing down strong genetic traits generation to generation.

Example of a 'mutant' as you're labeling it would be a child born with a myostatin deficiency - a condition which causes excessive muscle growth. If the child receives the genetic mutation from one parent, their anomalies won't be quite so noticeable. If they receive it from both parents they're going to be noticeably stronger - visually - a little Hercules. If such a person has children with another person who is, also, mystatin deficient, the odds are high that they'll pass that onto their kids. So on - so forth.

The genetic passing stops when the trait comes to an end.
 
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