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Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage[W:780]

Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

roguenuke said:
And civil unions are different than marriages, even if they come with all the same things.

Plus, I changed the question just for you and you still failed to answer. Would it be okay for those children with brown eyes to be given Crayola crayons while those with any other eye color got RoseArt crayons? Would it be fair to distinguish between children that way?
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So they want the word and not the "benefits, privileges, and legal protections"?

Those are different crayons.

And I do not support any state discrimination, which includes discriminating with race or eye color.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
So they want the word and not the "benefits, privileges, and legal protections"?

Those are different crayons.

And I do not support any state discrimination, which includes discriminating with race or eye color.
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Yes, they are different crayons but they still work the same way. They are simply different brands. They have the same colors. They provide the same benefits. You are suggesting the same thing when it comes to marriage. Basically you wish to have opposite sex couples use the Crayola brand of marriage and same sex couples must use the RoseArt brand of marriage, all based on gender.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

roguenuke said:
Yes, they are different crayons but they still work the same way. They are simply different brands. They have the same colors. They provide the same benefits. You are suggesting the same thing when it comes to marriage. Basically you wish to have opposite sex couples use the Crayola brand of marriage and same sex couples must use the RoseArt brand of marriage, all based on gender.
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Well I proposed the exact same "benefits, privileges, and legal protections," which you said no to.

That would be the same crayons but they are called cruyons. It has already been established that the word and nothing else is what they want.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
Well I proposed the exact same "benefits, privileges, and legal protections," which you said no to.

That would be the same crayons but they are called cruyons. It has already been established that the word and nothing else is what they want.
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You proposed making same sex couples use the RoseArt crayons while all opposite sex couples get to use Crayola crayons. They are all the same crayons, but you even admitted that doing so would be discriminatory because it discriminates based on labels and specific characteristics of people for no good reason.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

roguenuke said:
You proposed making same sex couples use the RoseArt crayons while all opposite sex couples get to use Crayola crayons. They are all the same crayons, but you even admitted that doing so would be discriminatory because it discriminates based on labels and specific characteristics of people for no good reason.
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Same crayons, but called cruyons.

I am against state discrimination, sure. That is a pretty uncommon thing to be against though.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
Same crayons, but called cruyons.

I am against state discrimination, sure. That is a pretty uncommon thing to be against though.
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Changing the name of a contract for couples based on their genders is state discrimination.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

roguenuke said:
Changing the name of a contract for couples based on their genders is state discrimination.
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Like I said, you care only about the name. And creating a new word for a new thing is not discrimination, it just makes sense.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
Like I said, you care only about the name. And creating a new word for a new thing is not discrimination, it just makes sense.
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It is discrimination. You just said it with the crayons. The contract would be the same thing, just as Crayola and RoseArt crayons are the same. The only difference is in the name and who gets which.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
I know you would disapprove because the "benefits, privileges, and legal protections" are not what they are fighting for. They just want the word, as is shown in your post.
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Well, this pretty much ends any reason to debate the topic. This is an ooopsie moment for the left. Like in "A Few Good Men", where the General admitted he ordered the code red. The proverbial cat has just bolted from the bag!

We are debating about gays getting the full rights of marriage, and then, ooops, they admit that they want marriage taken away as it is and their new version of marriage forced down everyone's throat, even if gays get all the benefits of marriage. They want to impose their will on everyone else. That is the leftist agenda. The big, oppressive government that our Constitution was made to prevent.

"YOU'RE GOD D*MN RIGHT I ORDERED THE CODE RED!"
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

roguenuke said:
It is discrimination. You just said it with the crayons. The contract would be the same thing, just as Crayola and RoseArt crayons are the same. The only difference is in the name and who gets which.
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You say the crayons are different, I do not.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
You say the crayons are different, I do not.
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They are named differently. It doesn't matter if they are the same things, children would see them as different and it would cause major issues by distinguishing which children get which brand of crayons based on something like hair color or sex/gender.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Anthony60 said:
Well, this pretty much ends any reason to debate the topic. This is an ooopsie moment for the left. Like in "A Few Good Men", where the General admitted he ordered the code red. The proverbial cat has just bolted from the bag!

We are debating about gays getting the full rights of marriage, and then, ooops, they admit that they want marriage taken away as it is and their new version of marriage forced down everyone's throat, even if gays get all the benefits of marriage. They want to impose their will on everyone else. That is the leftist agenda. The big, oppressive government that our Constitution was made to prevent.

"YOU'RE GOD D*MN RIGHT I ORDERED THE CODE RED!"
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Marriage as it is in no way changes when same sex couples are allowed to enter into it. My marriage is the same as it was 7 years ago when I entered into it with my husband, despite having same sex couples who are also married in the state we now live in and in the military with us.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

roguenuke said:
They are named differently. It doesn't matter if they are the same things, children would see them as different and it would cause major issues by distinguishing which children get which brand of crayons based on something like hair color or sex/gender.
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Children would not see the same crayons as different.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
Children would not see the same crayons as different.
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Yes, they would. If you give one child a box of Crayolas and another a box of RoseArts, and tell them specifically that it is because of something like their hair color or their gender, then they will feel subconscious about that aspect of themselves. I guarantee it. And that is what you are suggesting with marriage. Give one group "marriage" and another "civil unions" or something like them based solely on genders.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

roguenuke said:
Yes, they would. If you give one child a box of Crayolas and another a box of RoseArts, and tell them specifically that it is because of something like their hair color or their gender, then they will feel subconscious about that aspect of themselves. I guarantee it. And that is what you are suggesting with marriage. Give one group "marriage" and another "civil unions" or something like them based solely on genders.
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I did not propose that.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
I did not propose that.
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Yes you did.

If it was called anything but marriage, and it came with all the "benefits, privileges, and legal protections," would they say yes or no?
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Post #868 by you. You suggest calling it something other than marriage with all the "benefits, privileges, and legal protections".

As I said, it would be like giving two different groups of children different brands of crayons based solely on their gender, since the only thing that distinguishes between same sex couples and opposite sex couples is the relative genders of the couples.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

roguenuke said:
Post #868 by you. You suggest calling it something other than marriage with all the "benefits, privileges, and legal protections".

As I said, it would be like giving two different groups of children different brands of crayons based solely on their gender, since the only thing that distinguishes between same sex couples and opposite sex couples is the relative genders of the couples.
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Crayola crayons are crayola crayons, roseart crayons are not crayola crayons (irrelevant of the name, they are literally different).
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
Crayola crayons are crayola crayons, roseart crayons are not crayola crayons (irrelevant of the name, they are literally different).
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They are all crayons. They work the same way. They are the same colors. Just as you are suggesting with marriage-that-isn't-called-marriage for same sex couples.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

roguenuke said:
They are all crayons. They work the same way. They are the same colors. Just as you are suggesting with marriage-that-isn't-called-marriage for same sex couples.
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Just like a Ford Festiva is not a Ford Tauras because they are both cars, roseart crayons are not the exact same as crayola crayons.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
The fact that marriage does not mean same sex, except when politically motivated.
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ROFL! you're back to that!!

Yes, marriage does mean same sex - to many states, to various countries, and to Merriam Webster's. You're saying it doesn't really doesn't change that.

And we've proven that ad nauseum to you. You refuse to see it. Sad.

It may not mean same sex TO YOU. But to a whole lot of people, states, countries, dictionaries - it does. Your fail.

Now, do you want to redefine the word "line" or something?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Lursa said:
It ["Marriage"] means the same to same sex couples...and much of the rest of the US. So their expectations are the same.

And since politics decided that straight couples get benefits, privileges, and legal protections....and then extended that to bi-racial couples...and previously removed them from polygamous marriages....then it seems relevant that politics be consistent in how they apply their considerable weight.
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scatt said:
Politically.

If it was called anything but marriage, and it came with all the "benefits, privileges, and legal protections," would they say yes or no?

Except the state is involved, which means I am forced into their business through taxation, and other anti-property laws.
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scatt said:
The federal entity in the United states
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Great. That is also the entity with a SCOTUS that decided that 'separate but equal' is not Constitutional. So they cannot discriminate based on gender when it comes to the benefits, privileges, and legal protections that they confer on marriage.

So same sex couples have no need...nor desire... to call it anything besides marriage. And legally, as we are discovering state by state, no reason to call it anything else either.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Anthony60 said:
They are not preventing anyone from marrying. You are describing something that is not a marriage.
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huh? sorry, I don't understand your comment here.

OOOOH - maybe you're back to that "well, gay people can marry opposite sex people"

The right to marry includes CHOOSING THE ONE YOU WANT TO MARRY. Not someone you don't want to marry.

My friends who are in same sex marriages - it is a marriage, with a license from the state. How is that not a marriage?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Lursa said:
Great. That is also the entity with a SCOTUS that decided that 'separate but equal' is not Constitutional. So they cannot discriminate based on gender when it comes to the benefits, privileges, and legal protections that they confer on marriage.

So same sex couples have no need...nor desire... to call it anything besides marriage. And legally, as we are discovering state by state, no reason to call it anything else either.
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Yep, but same is "equal."

The state can and does discriminate based upon race.

I am aware they want the word only.

CriticalThought said:
Most of human history.
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Not in the slightest.
 
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