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Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage[W:780]

Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
They did no specify that gay marriage is some sort of right that states have to recognize, no.

It was another response to your question. Try and keep up.
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Try using complete sentences if you want someone to respond to you....try and maintain comprehensibility.

And that was not a response to my question. At least not a relevant one. I asked about the application of benefits, privileges, and legal protections....whether gays deserved the same that straight couples receive thru marriage.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Paleocon said:
America.

And a Supreme Court that makes up a bunch of other limitations that were never imagined before.

Sodomy, contraception, abortion, all powered by the same mindset which separates sex from its natural end (the creation of new life).
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What mindset is 'powering' all that?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Lursa said:
What mindset is 'powering' all that?
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As I said, the mindset which holds that the primary purpose of sex is pleasure, and not procreation.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Lursa said:
What group of Americans is being discriminated against there?
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Those that wish to buy/sell beer or alcohol on Sunday. Even the NASCAR schedule is built around these goofy laws.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Paleocon said:
Yes I'm aware of that. I would have no problem outlawing unnatural sexual practices like that, whether committed by homosexuals or heterosexuals.
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Luckily for all of us, the constitution doesn't allow you to do that.

Paleocon said:
Sodomy, contraception, abortion, all powered by the same mindset which separates sex from its natural end (the creation of new life).
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You're allowed to think that. You're not allowed to make the rest of us follow what you think. But feel free to practice whatever such opinions you want in your own life. That is a liberty that we are all guaranteed.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Lursa said:
Try using complete sentences if you want someone to respond to you....try and maintain comprehensibility.

I asked about the application of benefits, privileges, and legal protections....whether gays deserved the same that straight couples receive thru marriage.
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It is perfectly easy to understand grammatically unless you ignore what I was responding to (which you did). Try and keep up with your own posts.

Again, the supreme court specifically did not make that claim because they would need to first specify that gay marriage is a right. As of right now it is not a legal right unless the state decides it is.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Paleocon said:
Private acts do not from the law exempt, and no that doesn't mean setting up a police state, anymore than any other law regulating private behavior means setting up a police state. No, I'm not a neocon.



Should all private acts be legal, in your opinion?
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Private acts that do not infringe on anyone else's rights.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

ttwtt78640 said:
Those that wish to buy/sell beer or alcohol on Sunday. Even the NASCAR schedule is built around these goofy laws.
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Let me know when they are designated as protected classes in any states or by the feds.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
It is perfectly easy to understand grammatically unless you ignore what I was responding to (which you did). Try and keep up with your own posts.

Again, the supreme court specifically did not make that claim because they would need to first specify that gay marriage is a right. As of right now it is not a legal right unless the state decides it is.
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No, if it was comprehensible, I wouldnt have asked. As you can see, I am quite competent in my reading and writing skills.

And the govt does not have to prove or claim marriage as a right. It DOES however, if it bases its claims on discrimination, have to accord the same benefits, privileges, penalties even, and legal protections EQUALLY.

Just like a state cannot deny a driver's license based on discriminatory reasons. Driving isnt a right, but the govt may not regulate it using discriminatory policies.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Lursa said:
Agreed. And there are several states in which sexual orientation is a protected class.

They are not yet, at the federal level, but it's probably coming.

OTOH, as has been posted here, this is also gender-based discrimination when it comes to the legal protections. For example, when a woman is dying and the hospital will not let her lesbian partner in to be with her, that has been determined to be gender-based discrimination. As have been some adoption laws.
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Agreed but for that last example. That is not an example of gender based discrimination. The hospital won't let ANYONE visit in those circumstances but for family, whether they be male or female.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Lursa said:
No, if it was comprehensible, I wouldnt have asked. As you can see, I am quite competent in my reading and writing skills.

And the govt does not have to prove or claim marriage as a right. It DOES however, if it bases its claims on discrimination, have to accord the same benefits, privileges, penalties even, and legal protections EQUALLY.

Just like a state cannot deny a driver's license based on discriminatory reasons. Driving isnt a right, but the govt may not regulate it using discriminatory policies.
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So your claim is that it makes no sense to answer a question in that way, to yourself personally and emotionally? You are not important to the existence of grammar. My response absolutely makes sense if you read it as a response to your question (which you did not). Try and keep up with your own posts.

First off, state discrimination is allowed: see affirmative action in public schools and public jobs. So you can stop pretending otherwise. Secondly, the supreme court specifically did not claim gay marriage is a right in the states because they do not see it is a right for the states.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Lursa said:
What group of Americans is being discriminated against there?
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The drinking population. :mrgreen:
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

i only to make one address, becuase i not going to answer 10 times.

the whole idea of the thread was that people used a referendum to ban gay marriage, ...they exercised direct democracy ....and in doing it, which our founders hated, that action was illegal becuase it violated people rights, becuase democracy is ALWAYS at war with individual liberty.

but some of you people do not all understand [freedom], you believe it is everyone agreeing with you and your ideas, and when the dont, they are a racist.. bigot,... hateful.. mean and whatever you can think of.

freedom means disagreement, , if we as a people all agreed on everything we did, we would need freedom at all, but because we are not all cut from the same piece of cloth, we are going to disagree.

most of the problems of the world are caused by FORCE, the force of government stopping people from engaging in something, or forcing people to do something, even though the individual has committed no crime, or has not put the health and safety of people at risk.

you people need to understand what freedom is, it is not a tool for you to bully other people into thinking as you do, or forcing them to act according to you wishes, as many of you think.

its no wonderful the liberty of the american people is fading, becuase of people with your kind of thoughts.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Paleocon said:
America.

And a Supreme Court that makes up a bunch of other limitations that were never imagined before.

Sodomy, contraception, abortion, all powered by the same mindset which separates sex from its natural end (the creation of new life).
Click to expand...
There's been very little natural limitations on human behavior since pre-biblical times. That said, almost all mammals have been shown in nature to partake of sexual acts that have nothing to do with reproduction but instead only address the natural state of being horny.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Paleocon said:
As I said, the mindset which holds that the primary purpose of sex is pleasure, and not procreation.
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Sucks to be you. You only have sex when you want to procreate? poor person.

Does that mean people who are infertile shouldn't be allowed to get married? What about people over the age of fertility? Should they be blocked from getting married? What about those of us who choose not to have kids? Doomed to never have sex?

And yes, I say "doomed" - sex is fun.

In terms of "natural" ... my male (neutered) dog not only humps his (spayed) sister - sometimes from the side, sometimes in a more accurate area - he also humps our cats.

"Natural" is an over-used term to define what people want to allow re sex and not allow.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

ttwtt78640 said:
Those that wish to buy/sell beer or alcohol on Sunday. Even the NASCAR schedule is built around these goofy laws.
Click to expand...

they don't sell booze on Sunday where you live? bummer. You can work to change that. But sadly, booze drinkers/buyers are not a protected class.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

sangha said:
Your "Nuh-uh!" is not much of an argument and insignificant
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Then it's a perfect match for your original comment. Which is of course why I made it.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

clownboy said:
Agreed but for that last example. That is not an example of gender based discrimination. The hospital won't let ANYONE visit in those circumstances but for family, whether they be male or female.
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"Sorry people, you can't get married but we won't let you visit your long-term partner in the hospital because you aren't married". Talk about Catch-22!

I'm pretty sure unmarried heterosexual couples can visit their partners.


ernst barkmann said:
i only to make one address, becuase i not going to answer 10 times.

the whole idea of the thread was that people used a referendum to ban gay marriage, ...they exercised direct democracy ....and in doing it, which our founders hated, that action was illegal becuase it violated people rights, becuase democracy is ALWAYS at war with individual liberty.

but some of you people do not all understand [freedom], you believe it is everyone agreeing with you and your ideas, and when the dont, they are a racist.. bigot,... hateful.. mean and whatever you can think of.

freedom means disagreement, , if we as a people all agreed on everything we did, we would need freedom at all, but because we are not all cut from the same piece of cloth, we are going to disagree.

most of the problems of the world are caused by FORCE, the force of government stopping people from engaging in something, or forcing people to do something, even though the individual has committed no crime, or has not put the health and safety of people at risk.

you people need to understand what freedom is, it is not a tool for you to bully other people into thinking as you do, or forcing them to act according to you wishes, as many of you think.

its no wonderful the liberty of the american people is fading, becuase of people with your kind of thoughts.
Click to expand...

A) Voting cannot take away someone's constitutional rights. Period. You could not vote to take away women's right to vote, no matter how much you might want to.

B) If we were forcing you to marry a same sex partner, you might have a case. How does two women getting married force YOU to do anything?

C) how does expanding freedom limit the liberty of the American people?

Lursa said:
No, if it was comprehensible, I wouldnt have asked. As you can see, I am quite competent in my reading and writing skills.

And the govt does not have to prove or claim marriage as a right. It DOES however, if it bases its claims on discrimination, have to accord the same benefits, privileges, penalties even, and legal protections EQUALLY.

Just like a state cannot deny a driver's license based on discriminatory reasons. Driving isnt a right, but the govt may not regulate it using discriminatory policies.
Click to expand...

Actually, the Supreme Court has declared marriage as a right (see the lawsuits re prisoners getting married - marriage is a right, they can get married, states can put reasonable restrictions around when/how)

-----------------------------------------------------
And re other comments about why the SC hasn't ruled on same sex marriage -

In terms of why the SC hasn't ruled on same sex marriage yet - there hasn't been a case that has gotten to them yet that they have chosen to rule on. The only one so far is the Prop 8 case which, once they reviewed, they decided wasn't something they could rule on due to lack of standing of the people trying to defend Prop 8.

The case will come that the SC takes up, and my guess is - much as with Loving - they will decide that banning same sex marriages is unconstitutional. Of course, by then so many states will have it and the lack of harm from allowing them will be so obvious that it won't be that earth-shattering except to the few people who still hate gays/lesbians.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Lursa said:
Let me know when they are designated as protected classes in any states or by the feds.
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I see. Under your "dreamy" version of the constitution, only those special citizens, designated as members of protected classes, get court ordered law changes, the rest must rely on legislative changes made the old fashioned way. Perhaps you can show us that protected classes clause of the 14th amendment.

Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

paddymcdougall said:
they don't sell booze on Sunday where you live? bummer. You can work to change that. But sadly, booze drinkers/buyers are not a protected class.
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Where do you get these "protected classes" of citizens? Can you share a source for this? I always thought that all were due equal protection of the law and due process.

Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Paschendale said:
Luckily for all of us, the constitution doesn't allow you to do that.
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It did until 2003.

sangha said:
Private acts that do not infringe on anyone else's rights.
Click to expand...

What about ephebophilia?

ernst barkmann said:
i only to make one address, becuase i not going to answer 10 times.

the whole idea of the thread was that people used a referendum to ban gay marriage, ...they exercised direct democracy ....and in doing it, which our founders hated, that action was illegal becuase it violated people rights, becuase democracy is ALWAYS at war with individual liberty.

but some of you people do not all understand [freedom], you believe it is everyone agreeing with you and your ideas, and when the dont, they are a racist.. bigot,... hateful.. mean and whatever you can think of.

freedom means disagreement, , if we as a people all agreed on everything we did, we would need freedom at all, but because we are not all cut from the same piece of cloth, we are going to disagree.

most of the problems of the world are caused by FORCE, the force of government stopping people from engaging in something, or forcing people to do something, even though the individual has committed no crime, or has not put the health and safety of people at risk.

you people need to understand what freedom is, it is not a tool for you to bully other people into thinking as you do, or forcing them to act according to you wishes, as many of you think.

its no wonderful the liberty of the american people is fading, becuase of people with your kind of thoughts.
Click to expand...

If you really think that the founders would have supported gay marriage, then you're beyond reason (not that the founders were necessarily right about everything).

Summerwind said:
There's been very little natural limitations on human behavior since pre-biblical times. That said, almost all mammals have been shown in nature to partake of sexual acts that have nothing to do with reproduction but instead only address the natural state of being horny.
Click to expand...

Human nature is superior to animal nature, which is why humans are rightfully held to higher standards (do we hunt down wild bears who kill people in the same manner that we hunt down people who kill people?)

paddymcdougall said:
Sucks to be you. You only have sex when you want to procreate? poor person.

Does that mean people who are infertile shouldn't be allowed to get married? What about people over the age of fertility? Should they be blocked from getting married? What about those of us who choose not to have kids? Doomed to never have sex?

And yes, I say "doomed" - sex is fun.

In terms of "natural" ... my male (neutered) dog not only humps his (spayed) sister - sometimes from the side, sometimes in a more accurate area - he also humps our cats.

"Natural" is an over-used term to define what people want to allow re sex and not allow.
Click to expand...

That's not what I said. I said that procreation is the primary purpose of sex, not the only one.

Being infertile is not the same as being by nature incapable of conceiving. I don't believe that artificial contraception is right.

Such a viewpoint is rather sad really, sex isn't the end-all-be-all of life.

As I said before, human nature is superior to animal nature, thus humans are rightfully held to higher standards.

Natural is a well-grounded philosophical term.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

paddymcdougall said:
A) Voting cannot take away someone's constitutional rights. Period. You could not vote to take away women's right to vote, no matter how much you might want to.

B) If we were forcing you to marry a same sex partner, you might have a case. How does two women getting married force YOU to do anything?

C) how does expanding freedom limit the liberty of the American people?
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a) you really did not think very much , by what you said.

the ban was put in place by a vote, if the judge had ruled the other way, rights would HAVE been violated........so dont say rights cannot be taken away by vote.....that is actually what democracy does....which is why the founders hated it.

b) what the left is trying to do, if promote the idea to children that homosexuality is OK, its socially acceptable........the problem is others in our society to not accept that, they they do not want their kids to be told it is..............the left's answer is to home school or private school, well who said the left owns the school system, and has the only control over it.

c) becuase people believe more and more all the time that they cannot be offended, that some how its a right...and its not....that people must labor for them through services, and discrimination is a rights violation, and its not.

no person in the u.s. can by constitutional law, be made[forced] to serve another person......its unconstitutional.
 
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Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

paddymcdougall said:
"Sorry people, you can't get married but we won't let you visit your long-term partner in the hospital because you aren't married". Talk about Catch-22!

I'm pretty sure unmarried heterosexual couples can visit their partners.
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You might try actually reading the thread and the post I was responding to, might help if you understood what was being discussed.
 
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