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Is NSA Spying Why Brazil Chose Saab Over Boeing?

DA60

DA60

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'Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff might be punishing the U.S. for allegedly spying on her government by denying Boeing (BA) a big fighter-jet order. On the other hand, she might just be a smart shopper.

Brazil signed a $4.5 billion order for Swedish-made Saab (SAABB:SS) Gripen aircraft this week, spurning rival bids from Boeing and France’s Dassault Aviation (AM:FP). The government said its choice was based on the Gripen’s cost and performance, as well as Saab’s promise to transfer key technologies.

Others, though, saw the decision as payback for recent reports that the U.S. National Security Agency intercepted communications between Rousseff and her staff. “Had the decision been last year, Boeing would have won,” Welber Barral, a former Brazilian trade secretary, told Bloomberg News.'

NSA Spying to Blame for Brazil Choosing Saab Fighter Jets Over Boeing? - Businessweek
 
Maybe it was. How can you know for sure?
 
If I am the head of state I would be apprehensive of buying US manufactured planes. US government insists on installing a secret spying device on the planes and that's it.
 
Once you are not trusted, people are very reluctant to ever deal with you again, regardless of the subject matter of the deal.

Americans are forced to endure Obama's dishonest, corrupt administration with the constant lies, other countries are not.
 
Ray410 said:
Once you are not trusted, people are very reluctant to ever deal with you again, regardless of the subject matter of the deal.

Americans are forced to endure Obama's dishonest, corrupt administration with the constant lies, other countries are not.
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I'm not purposefully trying to bash my own country here, but how in the world could ANY foreign country trust us after some of the stints we've pulled through the years? A larger question is how do ANY countries trust each other? I suspect that they don't, but deal with one another because they have to. The same applies, I would wager, with a foreign country dealing with the U.S.
 
Jango said:
I'm not purposefully trying to bash my own country here, but how in the world could ANY foreign country trust us after some of the stints we've pulled through the years? A larger question is how do ANY countries trust each other? I suspect that they don't, but deal with one another because they have to. The same applies, I would wager, with a foreign country dealing with the U.S.
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Jango, that's not bashing your own country, that's bashing the NSA and those who have known and done nothing to reign them in. Much as this has been opened up for god and everybody to see, if America/Americans don't GENUINELY (as Sensenbrenner has said) reform this OOC agency, if Americans don't demand it, if they choose rather to ignore it or focus their angst on Snowden instead, then it's time to bash America, and evacuate the sinking ship.
 
Jango said:
The N.S.A. would know.
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The NSA wouldn't know what's in the head of the people in Brazil as to why they made their decision.

And even if they did, we will not know.
 
Harshaw said:
The NSA wouldn't know what's in the head of the people in Brazil as to why they made their decision.

And even if they did, we will not know.
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What? That's the whole point. Listening to the phone calls between Brazilians negotiations with other contractors, they DO know what's in their heads.
 
Montecresto said:
What? That's the whole point. Listening to the phone calls between Brazilians negotiations with other contractors, they DO know what's in their heads.
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You do understand that you just made that up, right? Right?
 
DA60 said:
'Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff might be punishing the U.S. for allegedly spying on her government by denying Boeing (BA) a big fighter-jet order. On the other hand, she might just be a smart shopper.

Brazil signed a $4.5 billion order for Swedish-made Saab (SAABB:SS) Gripen aircraft this week, spurning rival bids from Boeing and France’s Dassault Aviation (AM:FP). The government said its choice was based on the Gripen’s cost and performance, as well as Saab’s promise to transfer key technologies.

Others, though, saw the decision as payback for recent reports that the U.S. National Security Agency intercepted communications between Rousseff and her staff. “Had the decision been last year, Boeing would have won,” Welber Barral, a former Brazilian trade secretary, told Bloomberg News.'

NSA Spying to Blame for Brazil Choosing Saab Fighter Jets Over Boeing? - Businessweek
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Jim Sensenbrenner said its not just the constitution and American civil liberties that are being hurt by our out of control NSA, but the US economy. Perhaps this 4-5 billion dollar loss is just the kind of thing he was talking about.
 
Harshaw said:
The NSA wouldn't know what's in the head of the people in Brazil as to why they made their decision.

And even if they did, we will not know.
Click to expand...

Who said the N.S.A. were able to use telepathy?

There are other means to achieve the ends, ever hear of the S.C.S.?
 
its a 'saab' story for sweden but a 'sob' story for boeing!
 
DA60 said:
'Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff might be punishing the U.S. for allegedly spying on her government by denying Boeing (BA) a big fighter-jet order. On the other hand, she might just be a smart shopper.

Brazil signed a $4.5 billion order for Swedish-made Saab (SAABB:SS) Gripen aircraft this week, spurning rival bids from Boeing and France’s Dassault Aviation (AM:FP). The government said its choice was based on the Gripen’s cost and performance, as well as Saab’s promise to transfer key technologies.

Others, though, saw the decision as payback for recent reports that the U.S. National Security Agency intercepted communications between Rousseff and her staff. “Had the decision been last year, Boeing would have won,” Welber Barral, a former Brazilian trade secretary, told Bloomberg News.'

NSA Spying to Blame for Brazil Choosing Saab Fighter Jets Over Boeing? - Businessweek
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There are a lot of people who are saying Brazil is using this as an excuse to go with Saab because they really don't care about the acquisition and wanted cover for picking the cheapest possible option. Saab had the lowest bid.
 
DA60 said:
'Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff might be punishing the U.S. for allegedly spying on her government by denying Boeing (BA) a big fighter-jet order. On the other hand, she might just be a smart shopper.

Brazil signed a $4.5 billion order for Swedish-made Saab (SAABB:SS) Gripen aircraft this week, spurning rival bids from Boeing and France’s Dassault Aviation (AM:FP). The government said its choice was based on the Gripen’s cost and performance, as well as Saab’s promise to transfer key technologies.

Others, though, saw the decision as payback for recent reports that the U.S. National Security Agency intercepted communications between Rousseff and her staff. “Had the decision been last year, Boeing would have won,” Welber Barral, a former Brazilian trade secretary, told Bloomberg News.'

NSA Spying to Blame for Brazil Choosing Saab Fighter Jets Over Boeing? - Businessweek
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Two very good reasons to choose Swedish over American - cheaper than the American competition and SAAB promised to hand over key technology. I highly doubt the SAAB's performance would be a threat to the American aircraft and if I were American I wouldn't want to be handing over key technology to anyone else.

I don't think the NSA or Obama are a huge part of the decision here.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Two very good reasons to choose Swedish over American - cheaper than the American competition and SAAB promised to hand over key technology. I highly doubt the SAAB's performance would be a threat to the American aircraft and if I were American I wouldn't want to be handing over key technology to anyone else.

I don't think the NSA or Obama are a huge part of the decision here.
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From those I've spoken to who are more knowledgeable on these subjects than I am they maintain that the government was never very enthusiastic about this acquisition effort and that the NSA scandal provided them with an excuse to go with the cheapest possible option.
 
Considering the financial & corruption scandals in Brazil at the moment, the government was probably very ready to play the "outraged innocent" card too and then make a big show of turning down the American deal.

Easy to blame the US here and play to the home audience on all sorts of levels at the same time.
 
Two points:

1) I see the chances of Brazil engaging in air combat as pretty slim, so which fighter is chosen seems to be irrelevant anyway, and...

2) Why do I feel like the "elephant in the room" is that everybody spies on everybody, and everybody knows it, so even pretending to be shocked and/or outraged is just ludicrous.
 
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