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Ex-CIA director: Snowden should be 'hanged' if convicted of treason

Montecresto said:
MMC, my man, Snowden has not hurt the US as you claimed above. Unless you mean that exposing wrong doing on the part of the NSA and embarrassing them is hurting the US.
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Not true Monte.....with what Snowden just got down telling Brazil what he could do for them if they give him amnesty. Puts that all into context. So much for being just a whistleblower.
 
Damn, MMC, we agree..
Send him to the cell block at Stateville where they send child-rapists .
MMC said:
One can understand how he feels.....Snowden is doing what he can to hurt the US now. It's not about being a whistleblower.

He is a traitor.....court and be hung? That's where I disagree. Snowden shouldn't even be allowed to see a Court Room.

We either snatch him up and take him out to the desert and let him look at whats coming. His last mealy moments for him to relish. Or we play AT&T and reach out and touch him.

One thing is for sure.....Our US Marshals should have Printed up a Poster for Snowden.

Wanted.....Dead, Just Dead!
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MMC said:
Not true Monte.....with what Snowden just got down telling Brazil what he could do for them if they give him amnesty. Puts that all into context. So much for being just a whistleblower.
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It does not hurt the US for Snowden to offer to show Brazil how to avoid NSA surveillance of them. I pointed out, at your request, the many ways that the US has hurt Latin America.
 
Pretty sure he is just making reference to what was done to other people convicted of treason in this country(see the Lincoln conspirators). I'm sure if you thought about it for a moment longer you would have come up with that on your own.

and they wonder why people use the term "reactionary" liberals. sheesh
 
NIMBY said:
Damn, MMC, we agree..
Send him to the cell block at Stateville where they send child-rapists .
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:lol: Imagine that Nimby.....although not really. I don't want us to take care of him. Feed, cloth, and treat him medically, until the day he croaks off and dies.

I rather have him face what he knows.....now has to come. Then maybe when he gets to the other side. He can leak us some info from there. ;)
 
Far too many people do not consider what Snowden has done to be treason at all! But obviously far too many would rather see a man who has exposed wrong doing of a government agency hanged than the agency embarrassed and reformed as SOOOOOOO many are calling for!!!!
 
Montecresto said:
It does not hurt the US for Snowden to offer to show Brazil how to avoid NSA surveillance of them. I pointed out, at your request, the many ways that the US has hurt Latin America.
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He isn't looking to show them how to avoid our surveillance of them Monte.....he is looking to show them what we have on them. Big difference. With Brazil as a BRIC Nation. They have no need of Snowden.....as they Have Russian and China tech to get round most of all we do

Trouble with that is....the strategy comes from a Very old and Wise Strategist and Leader. Sun Tzu, Know they enemy and allies.....Well!
 
To speak to the Rand Paul side of the NSA and Snowden, the Liberal Dems also have a problem with Drones and transparency..
The Amash amendment cut across both parties, barely lost, and is a rare libertarian coalition these days in Congress..
Neo-cons like Boehner and Feinstein want to hang his ass..
Btw, Amash is getting primaried by a RINO in MI .
Montecresto said:
Far too many people do not consider what Snowden has done to be treason at all! But obviously far too many would rather see a man who has exposed wrong doing of a government agency hanged than the agency embarrassed and reformed as SOOOOOOO many are calling for!!!!
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Perotista said:
Oh yes. Perhaps make a public spectacle out of it like they did in the old west when a good old fashioned hanging was party time. I'll sell the whiskey and beer.
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There's a lot of people in the USA who are fine with the federal government engaging in unlimited spying on their citizens without cause. I bet that number coincides with the number of people who have never read 1984.
 
MMC said:
He isn't looking to show them how to avoid our surveillance of them Monte.....he is looking to show them what we have on them. Big difference. With Brazil as a BRIC Nation. They have no need of Snowden.....as they Have Russian and China tech to get round most of all we do

Trouble with that is....the strategy comes from a Very old and Wise Strategist and Leader. Sun Tzu, Know they enemy and allies.....Well!
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In his letter, Snowden, a former NSA contractor, writes, "Today, if you carry a cell phone in Sao Paolo, the NSA can and does keep track of your location: they do this 5 billion times a day to people around the world. When someone in Florianopolis visits a website, the NSA keeps a record of when it happened and what you did there. If a mother in Porto Alegre calls her son to wish him luck on his university exam, NSA can keep that call log for five years or more. They even keep track of who is having an affair or looking at pornography, in case they need to damage their target's reputation.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/17/world/americas/snowden-nsa-brazil-letter/

As the Brazilian president chided the US, without privacy, you have no real democracy. If security trumps privacy **** security, I ain't scared of ****.
 
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reinoe said:
There's a lot of people in the USA who are fine with the federal government engaging in unlimited spying on their citizens without cause. I bet that number coincides with the number of people who have never read 1984.
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Unfortunately it's worse than that, were so ****ed. Just two or three generations ago would never have stood for this. Now listen to them calling for Snowden's head!
 
reinoe said:
There's a lot of people in the USA who are fine with the federal government engaging in unlimited spying on their citizens without cause. I bet that number coincides with the number of people who have never read 1984.
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I read it back in school, late 50's or early 60's. Good book.
 
"There is a huge difference between legal programs, legitimate spying ... and these programs of dragnet mass surveillance that put entire populations under an all-seeing eye and save copies forever," he wrote. "These programs were never about terrorism: they're about economic spying, social control, and diplomatic manipulation. They're about power."


http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/17/world/americas/snowden-nsa-brazil-letter/
 
Montecresto said:
In his letter, Snowden, a former NSA contractor, writes, "Today, if you carry a cell phone in Sao Paolo, the NSA can and does keep track of your location: they do this 5 billion times a day to people around the world. When someone in Florianopolis visits a website, the NSA keeps a record of when it happened and what you did there. If a mother in Porto Alegre calls her son to wish him luck on his university exam, NSA can keep that call log for five years or more. They even keep track of who is having an affair or looking at pornography, in case they need to damage their target's reputation.

As the Brazilian president chided the US, without privacy, you have no real democracy. If security trumps privacy **** security, I ain't scared of ****.
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Snowden's open letter offers to help Brazil look into NSA surveillance - CNN.com


Granted the NSA should not be spying on any of its own people without a reason. Which is a completely different matter than Snowden giving info to other countries as to what we have on them.



Snowden offers spy help to Brazil in exchange for asylum

So, The Snowman has written an open letter to the people of Brazil in which he offers to help investigate NSA crimes against the Brazilian people.

In exchange, The Snowman wants Brazil to grant him asylum.

Brazil’s president Dilma Rousseff might not be interested, though. Yes, she canceled a state visit with President Obama when she learned the NSA had tapped her phones.

But that was before Brazlian media reported Brazil also spied on US diplomats visiting the country in 2003 and 2004.

Read more: Snowden offers spy help to Brazil in exchange for asylum | CW39 NewsFix
 
jamesrage said:
If anyone should be convicted of treason and hanged until dead it should be those spying on Americans and those who ordered it.Not guy who revealed that they were spying on the American people.
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I suppose, at this point, I could really use a “Snowden Affair For Dummies” summary.

I've not followed the case very well, and I have a sense that there may be much more to it than what I know of.

What I think I know is that Mr. Snowden, in the course of working with classified information, came across evidence that the government had been illegally spying on American citizens, in clear violation of the Fourth Amendment, and that Snowden's “crime” consists of revealing this to the public.

If that's really all there is to the case, the I would have to absolutely say that Snowden should not be subject to any prosecution or punishment for this “crime”; and is, in fact, rightfully entitled to fair compensation for the trouble and distress that has already been inflicted upon him as a result.

While I recognize the need and legitimacy for government to maintain certain secrets, and to enforce these secrets with criminal prosecution of those who reveal them, I absolutely do not believe that government should ever be allowed under any circumstances to use this secrecy as a means by which to hide illegal or unconstitutional actions on its own part. If the government was committing crimes, then Mr. Snowden absolutely did the right thing by exposing these crimes; and it is the perpetrators of these crimes who need to be prosecuted and punished,and not the one who committed the “crime”*of exposing them.


Is there anything I am missing from my admittedly-terse understanding of the situation that changes any of what I have written above? Did Mr. Snowden disclose any classified information which was not to expose illegal activity by the government?
 
Come on MMC. Who wouldn't think that a country might spy on foreign diplomats when they are in their country. That's hugely different than this OUT OF CONTROL NSA DRAGNET on the citizens of brazil. Sorry bud, this one pisses me off. I don't care what it takes to stop the NSA. And now they know how I feel, too!
 
MMC said:
One can understand how he feels.....Snowden is doing what he can to hurt the US now. It's not about being a whistleblower.

He is a traitor.....court and be hung? That's where I disagree. Snowden shouldn't even be allowed to see a Court Room.

We either snatch him up and take him out to the desert and let him look at whats coming. His last mealy moments for him to relish. Or we play AT&T and reach out and touch him.

One thing is for sure.....Our US Marshals should have Printed up a Poster for Snowden.

Wanted.....Dead, Just Dead!
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As with all accused of a crime, he's entitled to a fair trial, in which a jury must unanimously vote to convict him before he can be punished.

Assuming any of what I think I know of the case is correct, it is easy to see why some would not want him to have a trial. A trial would be public, and he would have to be given a fair chance to explain himself, and what he did, and why.

Any government agency or individual whose criminal activity would be described among the facts that would come out in Snowden's trial would certainly have good reason not to want that trial to take place.

At least we know whose side you are on.
 
Montecresto said:
Come on MMC. Who wouldn't think that a country might spy on foreign diplomats when they are in their country. That's hugely different than this OUT OF CONTROL NSA DRAGNET on the citizens of brazil. Sorry bud, this one pisses me off. I don't care what it takes to stop the NSA. And now they know how I feel, too!
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If you think Brazil only spied on our people in just their country.....then you are deceiving yourself.

Snowden has gone beyond pointing out what the NSA is doing wrong with its own Citizens.....2 wrongs don't make it Right.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
As with all accused of a crime, he's entitled to a fair trial, in which a jury must unanimously vote to convict him before he can be punished.

Assuming any of what I think I know of the case is correct, it is easy to see why some would not want him to have a trial. A trial would be public, and he would have to be given a fair chance to explain himself, and what he did, and why.

Any government agency or individual whose criminal activity would be described among the facts that would come out in Snowden's trial would certainly have good reason not to want that trial to take place.

At least we know whose side you are on.
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As Jim Sensenbrenner, who has a democrate co-sponsor for his bill has stated, the NSA has the largest budget of all the intelligence agencies and the least scrutiny. I find it preposterous that anybody supports the idea of any GOVERNMENT agency being able to operate outside of scrutiny. Bob, google senator Church (of the Church committee) and check out his warnings about the NSA WAY BACK IN 1976. I promise it will be worth your time and effort!
 
MMC said:
If you think Brazil only spied on our people in just their country.....then you are deceiving yourself.

Snowden has gone beyond pointing out what the NSA is doing wrong with its own Citizens.....2 wrongs don't make it Right.
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MMC, no I'm not deceiving myself, I was only responding to the bolded text in YOUR post above.
And furthermore, if we don't have enough liberty minded people in our own country to back the NSA up, then reinforcements from other countries are welcome, IMO.
 
Montecresto said:
MMC, no I'm not deceiving myself, I was only responding to the bolded text in YOUR post above.
And furthermore, if we don't have enough liberty minded people in our own country to back the NSA up, then reinforcements from other countries are welcome, IMO.
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That's just it Monte.....we the people can deal with the NSA. For any of their transgressions. Including in making life difficult for them to even go out in public. Including their wives and children.

But what we cannot do.....as the people of the US. Is go and do anything to Brazil or anyone else for their transgressions.
 
MMC said:
That's just it Monte.....we the people can deal with the NSA. For any of their transgressions. Including in making life difficult for them to even go out in public. Including their wives and children.

But what we cannot do.....as the people of the US. Is go and do anything to Brazil or anyone else for their transgressions.
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Not quite sure what you mean by that MMC? I'm certainly not interested in personal threats to NSA employees and their families. I want, no demand that our government listen to the people across the board that are raising hell about this and STOP the NSA as an agency from this bull****. I'm not afraid of the citizens (or the government for that matter) of Brazil, and DO NOT APPRECIATE the NSA's dragnet surveillance of their phones, e-mails and whatever else they're snooping on. That's just me man.

We are where we are today because nobody heeded senator Church's recommendations all those years ago!

Thirty years ago, on April 26, 1976, the United States Senate Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities, delivered its final report detailing the lawlessness of U.S. intelligence agencies and the need for Congress to reassert the Constitutional system of checks and balances to order to rein in the cloak-and-dagger excesses of the executive branch of the federal government.

The committee, mercifully referred to by the last name of its chair, U.S. Senator Frank Church, D-Idaho, produced fourteen reports on the formation of U.S. intelligence agencies, the manner in which they had and were continuing to operate, and the abuses of law and of power -- up to and including murder -- committed by these agencies in Chile, the Congo, Cuba, Vietnam and other nations that experienced the attention of U.S. authorities in the Cold War era.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3510598
 
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