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I agree with him, which may surprise you. Though I'm less concerned with how the Repubs look and more concerned with the fact that the deal, while not the most wonderful thing you could think of, beats the hell out of playing political chicken every few months.
Word is even McConnel might be voting against it.
Which, it should be pointed out, still allows it to pass. The big names will oppose it, and enough Republicans will join with enough Democrats to see it pass.
I find both the criticisms (that Republicans are trading away Sequestration for basically nothing) and William Kristols' argument here compelling.
Another shutdown would basically destroy 2014 for the Republicans
The Democrats know this and had them basically where they wanted them. This probably was the best deal possible. Sometimes it is better to retreat a bit in order to fight another day with an eye on the big prize next November, The senate. Then there is the ACA.
If you remember last October the gap closed from 14-19 points in opposition to the ACA down to 4-10 points because of the shutdown. Now that gap is just getting back to where it was, another shut down may guarantee that law is here to stay. The Republicans will have to be adept not to fall into one of the pitfalls or Democratic Party trap between now and next November.
Another shutdown would basically destroy 2014 for the Republicans. The Democrats know this and had them basically where they wanted them. This probably was the best deal possible. Sometimes it is better to retreat a bit in order to fight another day with an eye on the big prize next November, The senate. Then there is the ACA.
If you remember last October the gap closed from 14-19 points in opposition to the ACA down to 4-10 points because of the shutdown. Now that gap is just getting back to where it was, another shut down may guarantee that law is here to stay. The Republicans will have to be adept not to fall into one of the pitfalls or Democratic Party trap between now and next November.
Well, no. But it would likely ruin the momentum they've gained from Obamacare's continued failures. We'd be back to a baseline.
That's the big selling point to me as well - this is how we keep our eye on the final prize. It just sucks in the mean time.
Agreed. There are going to be lots of people, money, and media desperate to put the focus somewhere - anywhere - else.
Conservative Hill Analysis Slams Murray-Ryan Deal | National Review OnlineAnalysis of the Ryan/Murray Spending Package
–It boosts spending right now, a total of $71 billion over the next two years—$63 billion in new discretionary spending, and $8 billion for a 3-month extension of the doc fix.
–The deficit increases under the Ryan/Murray plan for at least the next 3 years. Net deficit reduction would not begin until FY2017, after President Obama leaves office.
–It is not “paid for” over the Budget Control Act (BCA) window of 2014-2021, eroding the $2.1 trillion in spending cuts that were achieved in the BCA in exchange for the $2.1 trillion debt ceiling increase in 2011.
–Under the Ryan/Murray package, claimed savings during the BCA period come predominately from fee/revenue increases rather than lower spending. So, it doesn’t reduce government, but rather enables a larger government.
–About half of the $85 billion in “savings” in Ryan/Murray are achieved in 2022-2023, after the BCA period ends. Most of those savings are from the continuation of policies not included in the baseline, so are the result of baseline games rather than genuine reforms of bankrupt entitlements.
–Accounting for interest costs, which are higher near-term because of the new spending endorsed in the Ryan/Murray package, net reduction in the debt is no more than $15 billion in 10 years. The $23 billion in deficit reduction claimed by Ryan/Murray does not include interest costs.
–The Ryan/Murray package raids certain Federal trust funds, employing policies that should be used for fixing programs and possible deficit reduction instead for higher spending, like federal retirement contributions changes.
–This bill reduces retirement benefits for current military members and retirees—who gave 20 or more years of service—but spares current federal civilian employees from any changes to their retirement benefits.
–It wipes out the need for a budget resolution in 2015, allowing Senate Democrats to again avoid taking hard votes on budget issues on the Senate floor. And, with all the reserve funds included in the Ryan/Murray package, it allows Harry Reid and Senate Democrats the chance to duck votes on Budget Act points of order against specific bills.
Agreed. Only time will tell how they look after giving up without a fight because they don't want to look bad. Wrong quality of the dems to emulate, spinelessness.
Pero, I don't agree with the TP on trying to "primary" out those that voted for the shutdown! Wrong thinking, IMO, when the big picture is considered! Don't they see this? :doh:
That's where we differ. I call the Tea Party types RINO's. Who you call RINO's are republican's that are acting like republican's have acted for years, long before the rightwingnut movement came to be. You cannot just hijack the party and lay claim to the label "republican" as if it were your own, because it is not. In fact, I'd venture to say, in the republican party, you guys are the minority. Anyone from the GOP not agreeing with you, you call a RINO. You guys are the real RINO's. They were here first. Why don't you start your own party and let Republican's be?
There's a good article out there on five GOP Senators getting primaried..As Matthews just said, McConnell needs to go for this Bevin's throat, and let the chips fall..We will see what happens, but as of the moment the Republicans have the momentum heading into next years elections. They need to keep it if they hope to regain the senate.
Repubs will want a "win", so we could have a problem with the raising of the debt..A shutdown would hand that momentum back to the Democrats.
We care more about our Nation than this Pero..Myself, I would like to have seen the sequester stay and I am sure most Democrats would have loved to see the GOP backs stiffin and fight for the sequester via another shut down.
Pero, I don't agree with the TP on trying to "primary" out those that voted for the shutdown! Wrong thinking, IMO, when the big picture is considered! Don't they see this? :doh:
By next November, all factions of the GOP will be SOL on PPACA..There's a good article out there on five GOP Senators getting primaried..As Matthews just said, McConnell needs to go for this Bevin's throat, and let the chips fall.. Repubs will want a "win", so we could have a problem with the raising of the debt..We care more about our Nation than this Pero..
We will see what happens, but as of the moment the Republicans have the momentum heading into next years elections. They need to keep it if they hope to regain the senate. A shutdown would hand that momentum back to the Democrats. Myself, I would like to have seen the sequester stay and I am sure most Democrats would have loved to see the GOP backs stiffin and fight for the sequester via another shut down. But that is a losing proposition for the Republicans and most know it.
So for the sake of easy political capital we should allow this crap to get shoved down our throat? Not as far as I'm concerned!!
What we need is a few Congressmen and Senators to clearly spell out to the American people what a heap of donkey dung this "deal" is. They need to spell it out and keep spelling it out until people start catching on.
That won't be easy to do but if we're all just going to keep on taking the easy road we damned well better be prepared to wallow around in the slop we created.
Boehner needs to pay attention.
Conservative Hill Analysis Slams Murray-Ryan Deal | National Review Online
That highlighted one in particular isn't going to look real good with his stamp of approval on it. (not that the other stuff isn't equally damning)
Isn't it exciting for you as an Ohioan to see Boehner slap these guys down led by ex-Sen. DeMint down..
It is better for the Nation for the GOP civil war to end right this present moment..(Christmas Prayer)
I make 75% of my average pay of my last 4 years..We had an ERO which let me out at 55-YOA and a 20% increase of pay the last two years..No one cares if we lose our retirement man. They really don't. We can't say anything about it either and the Sec Def, who I do like, is still a puppet who won't really put up a fight about this. This is just the beginning.
Sometimes it is better to take two steps back so in the future you can take three or more steps forward. What good would another shutdown accomplish, a shutdown where the GOP would come out looking like obstructionist. Do you remember the last one where the GOP was at their lowest point ever with just 20% of the electorate identifying with them. You won't elect many representatives and senators let alone a president with that kind of number.
The Republicans need to learn when and where to pick their battles. The last one over defunding the ACA was dumb. It had no chance of winning, all it took is one look across to the other side of the Capital building where a Democratic controlled senate sat. If that wasn't enough, a quick glance at the White House would have affirmed that. Wrong time and wrong thing to shut the government down over.
Pick and choose your battles, the question is how many times are you willing to fall on your sword in battles you have no chance of winning? Regroup, resupply, get some fresh troops like taking back the senate and enter the next frays, battles with more on your side
As partisan as I can be, I'll remind you of the hopeful epiphany I've had with the Pope..Perhaps you. I know a lot of Republicans and Democrats that due. But way too many now residing in Washington D.C. only care about their party or as in the case of the tea party, their own little faction in the midst of a larger party. Most politicians that I know regardless of party want a strong and vibrant America for years, decades, centuries to come. It is only how we get there that is where the differences lie. Path A or path B.
Boehner's had it with these kind of ****-heads who are being interviewed right now on MSNBC..But so many in D.C. now put America way behind their political party or faction within a political party.
America and her future has become the 26th priority out of 25.
DeMint is on his own side..DeMint is a Tea Party favorite who left Congress in January to head the Heritage Foundation. I'm not sure whose side he is on at this point!
Though the GOP fissures are large, there are ones in the Dem. party flying under the radar..He often clashed with the Party leadership while he was in Congress, so is this a payback?
When Boehner gets pissed like he did today, I love him..Personally, I like Boehner, but I sure don't envy him his job!
Now what would we Dems be doing against John??He's being forced to not only defend his Party against the Democrats
Those are the guys that need to be nuked, or droned..but also against some in his own Party!
Cantor is who I credit the most for where we are today, but that's my opinion..Would Cantor be an improvement? I don't think so! :thumbdown:
Greetings, NIMBY! :2wave: Are you and yours well?
DeMint is on his own side..Though the GOP fissures are large, there are ones in the Dem. party flying under the radar.. When Boehner gets pissed like he did today, I love him.. Now what would we Dems be doing against John?? Those are the guys that need to be nuked, or droned.. Cantor is who I credit the most for where we are today, but that's my opinion..
She is doing great, always steady, faith, teacher, everybody loves her..Me, not always so much .