• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Boehner lashes out at conservative groups on budget deal

I agree with him, which may surprise you. Though I'm less concerned with how the Repubs look and more concerned with the fact that the deal, while not the most wonderful thing you could think of, beats the hell out of playing political chicken every few months.

The deal among Republicans was that you weren't supposed to give up Sequestration without a replacement, significant, long term reform. This bill does not do that, but does give up Sequestration. That is a bad trade, and keeps us on the road to a much worse story than a budget fight.
 
Word is even McConnel might be voting against it.

Which, it should be pointed out, still allows it to pass. The big names will oppose it, and enough Republicans will join with enough Democrats to see it pass.

I find both the criticisms (that Republicans are trading away Sequestration for basically nothing) and William Kristols' argument here compelling.

Another shutdown would basically destroy 2014 for the Republicans. The Democrats know this and had them basically where they wanted them. This probably was the best deal possible. Sometimes it is better to retreat a bit in order to fight another day with an eye on the big prize next November, The senate. Then there is the ACA.

If you remember last October the gap closed from 14-19 points in opposition to the ACA down to 4-10 points because of the shutdown. Now that gap is just getting back to where it was, another shut down may guarantee that law is here to stay. The Republicans will have to be adept not to fall into one of the pitfalls or Democratic Party trap between now and next November.
 
Another shutdown would basically destroy 2014 for the Republicans

Well, no. But it would likely ruin the momentum they've gained from Obamacare's continued failures. We'd be back to a baseline.

The Democrats know this and had them basically where they wanted them. This probably was the best deal possible. Sometimes it is better to retreat a bit in order to fight another day with an eye on the big prize next November, The senate. Then there is the ACA.

That's the big selling point to me as well - this is how we keep our eye on the final prize. It just sucks in the mean time.

If you remember last October the gap closed from 14-19 points in opposition to the ACA down to 4-10 points because of the shutdown. Now that gap is just getting back to where it was, another shut down may guarantee that law is here to stay. The Republicans will have to be adept not to fall into one of the pitfalls or Democratic Party trap between now and next November.

Agreed. There are going to be lots of people, money, and media desperate to put the focus somewhere - anywhere - else.
 
Another shutdown would basically destroy 2014 for the Republicans. The Democrats know this and had them basically where they wanted them. This probably was the best deal possible. Sometimes it is better to retreat a bit in order to fight another day with an eye on the big prize next November, The senate. Then there is the ACA.

If you remember last October the gap closed from 14-19 points in opposition to the ACA down to 4-10 points because of the shutdown. Now that gap is just getting back to where it was, another shut down may guarantee that law is here to stay. The Republicans will have to be adept not to fall into one of the pitfalls or Democratic Party trap between now and next November.

Agreed. Only time will tell how they look after giving up without a fight because they don't want to look bad. Wrong quality of the dems to emulate, spinelessness.
 
Well, no. But it would likely ruin the momentum they've gained from Obamacare's continued failures. We'd be back to a baseline.



That's the big selling point to me as well - this is how we keep our eye on the final prize. It just sucks in the mean time.



Agreed. There are going to be lots of people, money, and media desperate to put the focus somewhere - anywhere - else.

exactly and then we wait until February if this deal is passed for the debt ceiling debate to begin.
 

Boehner needs to pay attention.

Analysis of the Ryan/Murray Spending Package

–It boosts spending right now, a total of $71 billion over the next two years—$63 billion in new discretionary spending, and $8 billion for a 3-month extension of the doc fix.

–The deficit increases under the Ryan/Murray plan for at least the next 3 years. Net deficit reduction would not begin until FY2017, after President Obama leaves office.

–It is not “paid for” over the Budget Control Act (BCA) window of 2014-2021, eroding the $2.1 trillion in spending cuts that were achieved in the BCA in exchange for the $2.1 trillion debt ceiling increase in 2011.

–Under the Ryan/Murray package, claimed savings during the BCA period come predominately from fee/revenue increases rather than lower spending. So, it doesn’t reduce government, but rather enables a larger government.

–About half of the $85 billion in “savings” in Ryan/Murray are achieved in 2022-2023, after the BCA period ends. Most of those savings are from the continuation of policies not included in the baseline, so are the result of baseline games rather than genuine reforms of bankrupt entitlements.

–Accounting for interest costs, which are higher near-term because of the new spending endorsed in the Ryan/Murray package, net reduction in the debt is no more than $15 billion in 10 years. The $23 billion in deficit reduction claimed by Ryan/Murray does not include interest costs.

–The Ryan/Murray package raids certain Federal trust funds, employing policies that should be used for fixing programs and possible deficit reduction instead for higher spending, like federal retirement contributions changes.

This bill reduces retirement benefits for current military members and retirees—who gave 20 or more years of service—but spares current federal civilian employees from any changes to their retirement benefits.

–It wipes out the need for a budget resolution in 2015, allowing Senate Democrats to again avoid taking hard votes on budget issues on the Senate floor. And, with all the reserve funds included in the Ryan/Murray package, it allows Harry Reid and Senate Democrats the chance to duck votes on Budget Act points of order against specific bills.
Conservative Hill Analysis Slams Murray-Ryan Deal | National Review Online

That highlighted one in particular isn't going to look real good with his stamp of approval on it. (not that the other stuff isn't equally damning)
 
Agreed. Only time will tell how they look after giving up without a fight because they don't want to look bad. Wrong quality of the dems to emulate, spinelessness.

We will see what happens, but as of the moment the Republicans have the momentum heading into next years elections. They need to keep it if they hope to regain the senate. A shutdown would hand that momentum back to the Democrats. Myself, I would like to have seen the sequester stay and I am sure most Democrats would have loved to see the GOP backs stiffin and fight for the sequester via another shut down. But that is a losing proposition for the Republicans and most know it.
 
Isn't it exciting for you as an Ohioan to see Boehner slap these guys down led by ex-Sen. DeMint down..
It is better for the Nation for the GOP civil war to end right this present moment..(Christmas Prayer)
Pero, I don't agree with the TP on trying to "primary" out those that voted for the shutdown! Wrong thinking, IMO, when the big picture is considered! Don't they see this? :doh:
 
Sorry you are free to have your opinion but the fact is the Tea Party Republican is much closer to the republican of old then the RINO is today, the Republican in Name Only is nothing other than liberal / democrat lite. We don't need that, but the fact is the conservative wing of the party can't win this battle thanks to a lame stream media that is all too eager to take the eyes off ofailure care and apply them to a Republican party that shuts the govt down. Sadly the Republicans, the real one's, need to STFU and take this on on the chin otherwise they stand to change the landscape for next November when they can make ofailure out to be a lame duck for 2 years with a House and Senate full of real conservatives.


That's where we differ. I call the Tea Party types RINO's. Who you call RINO's are republican's that are acting like republican's have acted for years, long before the rightwingnut movement came to be. You cannot just hijack the party and lay claim to the label "republican" as if it were your own, because it is not. In fact, I'd venture to say, in the republican party, you guys are the minority. Anyone from the GOP not agreeing with you, you call a RINO. You guys are the real RINO's. They were here first. Why don't you start your own party and let Republican's be?
 
By next November, all factions of the GOP will be SOL on PPACA..
We will see what happens, but as of the moment the Republicans have the momentum heading into next years elections. They need to keep it if they hope to regain the senate.
There's a good article out there on five GOP Senators getting primaried..As Matthews just said, McConnell needs to go for this Bevin's throat, and let the chips fall..
A shutdown would hand that momentum back to the Democrats.
Repubs will want a "win", so we could have a problem with the raising of the debt..
Myself, I would like to have seen the sequester stay and I am sure most Democrats would have loved to see the GOP backs stiffin and fight for the sequester via another shut down.
We care more about our Nation than this Pero..
 
Pero, I don't agree with the TP on trying to "primary" out those that voted for the shutdown! Wrong thinking, IMO, when the big picture is considered! Don't they see this? :doh:

Apparently not, sometimes it takes experience along with the school of hard knocks. I remember back in 1964 campaigning and voting for Barry Goldwater. There were quite a lot of people who told me he couldn't win, that the Republicans needed to nominate someone who could win. But I wouldn't listen, none of us Goldwater supporters would listen. We celebrated big time when he won the California Primary and then the nomination. We were totally unprepared for the election results that November.

I learned, so too should the tea party have learned from their Aiken, Mourdock, Angle, O'Donnell nominations that cost senate seats. Apparently not.
 
By next November, all factions of the GOP will be SOL on PPACA..There's a good article out there on five GOP Senators getting primaried..As Matthews just said, McConnell needs to go for this Bevin's throat, and let the chips fall.. Repubs will want a "win", so we could have a problem with the raising of the debt..We care more about our Nation than this Pero..

Perhaps you. I know a lot of Republicans and Democrats that due. But way too many now residing in Washington D.C. only care about their party or as in the case of the tea party, their own little faction in the midst of a larger party. Most politicians that I know regardless of party want a strong and vibrant America for years, decades, centuries to come. It is only how we get there that is where the differences lie. Path A or path B.

But so many in D.C. now put America way behind their political party or faction within a political party. America and her future has become the 26th priority out of 25.
 
We will see what happens, but as of the moment the Republicans have the momentum heading into next years elections. They need to keep it if they hope to regain the senate. A shutdown would hand that momentum back to the Democrats. Myself, I would like to have seen the sequester stay and I am sure most Democrats would have loved to see the GOP backs stiffin and fight for the sequester via another shut down. But that is a losing proposition for the Republicans and most know it.

So for the sake of easy political capital we should allow this crap to get shoved down our throat? Not as far as I'm concerned!!

What we need is a few Congressmen and Senators to clearly spell out to the American people what a heap of donkey dung this "deal" is. They need to spell it out and keep spelling it out until people start catching on.

That won't be easy to do but if we're all just going to keep on taking the easy road we damned well better be prepared to wallow around in the slop we created.
 
Note to Moderators:

You have my blessing if you want to merge this thread with the one I started earlier.

Have a nice day.
 
So for the sake of easy political capital we should allow this crap to get shoved down our throat? Not as far as I'm concerned!!

What we need is a few Congressmen and Senators to clearly spell out to the American people what a heap of donkey dung this "deal" is. They need to spell it out and keep spelling it out until people start catching on.

That won't be easy to do but if we're all just going to keep on taking the easy road we damned well better be prepared to wallow around in the slop we created.

Sometimes it is better to take two steps back so in the future you can take three or more steps forward. What good would another shutdown accomplish, a shutdown where the GOP would come out looking like obstructionist. Do you remember the last one where the GOP was at their lowest point ever with just 20% of the electorate identifying with them. You won't elect many representatives and senators let alone a president with that kind of number.

The Republicans need to learn when and where to pick their battles. The last one over defunding the ACA was dumb. It had no chance of winning, all it took is one look across to the other side of the Capital building where a Democratic controlled senate sat. If that wasn't enough, a quick glance at the White House would have affirmed that. Wrong time and wrong thing to shut the government down over.

Pick and choose your battles, the question is how many times are you willing to fall on your sword in battles you have no chance of winning? Regroup, resupply, get some fresh troops like taking back the senate and enter the next frays, battles with more on your side
 
Boehner needs to pay attention.


Conservative Hill Analysis Slams Murray-Ryan Deal | National Review Online

That highlighted one in particular isn't going to look real good with his stamp of approval on it. (not that the other stuff isn't equally damning)

No one cares if we lose our retirement man. They really don't. We can't say anything about it either and the Sec Def, who I do like, is still a puppet who won't really put up a fight about this. This is just the beginning.
 
nothing more fun that watching the cannibals turn upon each other.
 
Isn't it exciting for you as an Ohioan to see Boehner slap these guys down led by ex-Sen. DeMint down..
It is better for the Nation for the GOP civil war to end right this present moment..(Christmas Prayer)

DeMint is a Tea Party favorite who left Congress in January to head the Heritage Foundation. I'm not sure whose side he is on at this point! He often clashed with the Party leadership while he was in Congress, so is this a payback? If he's trying to make a point, he's going about it wrong, IMO!

Personally, I like Boehner, but I sure don't envy him his job! He's being forced to not only defend his Party against the Democrats, but also against some in his own Party! How would you like that? Would Cantor be an improvement? I don't think so! :thumbdown:

Greetings, NIMBY! :2wave: Are you and yours well?
 
I do..I'm in a far different "state teacher's account" than your "federal military account", but I'm in the same sinking public pension boat with you..
No one cares if we lose our retirement man. They really don't. We can't say anything about it either and the Sec Def, who I do like, is still a puppet who won't really put up a fight about this. This is just the beginning.
I make 75% of my average pay of my last 4 years..We had an ERO which let me out at 55-YOA and a 20% increase of pay the last two years..
Is that sustainable, HELL NO..Can I afford lowering it to say 60%, like Vermont,
which just went up from 50% with two more years of teaching, HELL YES..
It's silly for people to tell me to send back my money..It only works if all one million of us in Illinois do that..

Will the public feel sorry for a person who retired at 37-YOA after 20 years--not from what I'm hearing across-the-board..
Cutting back the percentage we get is the only way to bail these pensions out in the short term..
It's time for us to get pro-active before someone pulls a Detroit on us .
 
Last edited:
Sometimes it is better to take two steps back so in the future you can take three or more steps forward. What good would another shutdown accomplish, a shutdown where the GOP would come out looking like obstructionist. Do you remember the last one where the GOP was at their lowest point ever with just 20% of the electorate identifying with them. You won't elect many representatives and senators let alone a president with that kind of number.

The Republicans need to learn when and where to pick their battles. The last one over defunding the ACA was dumb. It had no chance of winning, all it took is one look across to the other side of the Capital building where a Democratic controlled senate sat. If that wasn't enough, a quick glance at the White House would have affirmed that. Wrong time and wrong thing to shut the government down over.

Pick and choose your battles, the question is how many times are you willing to fall on your sword in battles you have no chance of winning? Regroup, resupply, get some fresh troops like taking back the senate and enter the next frays, battles with more on your side

Where is there ANY evidence that we're planning on taking any steps forward? We spent since 2002 playing nice with Democrats who packed every Defense Authorization bill with additional spending and when our spineless "plan" handed the Democrats both houses they only packed more crap down our throats. Then 2010 came around and we made a little headway but since then the GOP fat cats have been slinking into the corner saying "I'm sorry" every time someone points out the futility of the status quo.

We didn't want the sequester but it was better to get something than nothing so we took that tiny win but now Ryan is handing it back PLUS other concessions. The basics of negotiation are to establish a win/win or you don't make a deal, not "take it up the poop chute until I make bottom bitch".

We capitulated in 2008 with McCain and then doubled down on that in 2012 with Romney and what have we gained? Tell me where all this "Mr Nice Guy" crap has paid off? Do you not have a freaking clue as to who we're dealing with? The Democrats HATE Capitalism and HATE individualism. They don't want independence and it's not just that they don't want it for themselves, they want it for you and me too!! They're willing to go to damned near any length to insure that we are all beholden to some central government for our wants and needs but for some ridiculous reason the "moderates' are sitting there saying "let's just play nice now".

You need to understand that these bastards have watched as a knife was stuck in the back of the American people and now they're trying to say that if we stop bitching about the pain they'll run and get us a bandaid.
 
We need to let Boehner and Ryan know that we support them..
Perhaps you. I know a lot of Republicans and Democrats that due. But way too many now residing in Washington D.C. only care about their party or as in the case of the tea party, their own little faction in the midst of a larger party. Most politicians that I know regardless of party want a strong and vibrant America for years, decades, centuries to come. It is only how we get there that is where the differences lie. Path A or path B.
As partisan as I can be, I'll remind you of the hopeful epiphany I've had with the Pope..
Just heard that McConnell and Cornyn are voting No over either sequestration or the final budget well over sequestration numbers..

But so many in D.C. now put America way behind their political party or faction within a political party.
America and her future has become the 26th priority out of 25.
Boehner's had it with these kind of ****-heads who are being interviewed right now on MSNBC..
 
DeMint is a Tea Party favorite who left Congress in January to head the Heritage Foundation. I'm not sure whose side he is on at this point!
DeMint is on his own side..
He often clashed with the Party leadership while he was in Congress, so is this a payback?
Though the GOP fissures are large, there are ones in the Dem. party flying under the radar..
Personally, I like Boehner, but I sure don't envy him his job!
When Boehner gets pissed like he did today, I love him..
He's being forced to not only defend his Party against the Democrats
Now what would we Dems be doing against John??
but also against some in his own Party!
Those are the guys that need to be nuked, or droned..
Would Cantor be an improvement? I don't think so! :thumbdown:
Cantor is who I credit the most for where we are today, but that's my opinion..
Greetings, NIMBY! :2wave: Are you and yours well?

She is doing great, always steady, faith, teacher, everybody loves her..Me, not always so much .
 
DeMint is on his own side..Though the GOP fissures are large, there are ones in the Dem. party flying under the radar.. When Boehner gets pissed like he did today, I love him.. Now what would we Dems be doing against John?? Those are the guys that need to be nuked, or droned.. Cantor is who I credit the most for where we are today, but that's my opinion..


She is doing great, always steady, faith, teacher, everybody loves her..Me, not always so much .

It usually takes a lot to P*** an Ohioan off, and that's good, because it's not something most people expect, since we're usually fairly even-tempered, and easy to get along with! We do expect fair play at all times, though, and I suspect the lack of same was what finally did it for Boehner! :lamo: P.S. I love him, too!
 
Back
Top Bottom