• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

TheNextEra said:
The RULES that have been established. Don't like it, don't open a business. Or feel free to move to Iran.
Click to expand...

So if there is a rule on anything, that automatically makes it right? Ok. So you dont have to break it down logically, all you have to say is "because the government says so".
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Grant said:
Wow! This "bigot" word really flies around freely. I suppose that makes it easier than trying to say anything that resembles some sort of sensible debate.
Click to expand...

If the shoe fits. WEAR it. You wear it quite well. Your comments support that a business should be able to discriminate against who they want.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Phil_Osophy said:
So if there is a rule on anything, that automatically makes it right? Ok. So you dont have to break it down logically, all you have to say is "because the government says so".
Click to expand...

Iran is more to your liking then. Move there.

Plain and simple, there are rules to operating a business that you cannot discriminate against a client based on sexuality, race, or religion.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Grant said:
Who is hiding behind religion in this case? What evidence do you have of that?
Click to expand...

Well, my high school girlfriend Debbie Zambrano's family bakery...very Italian Catholic....made lots of barmitzvah cakes and I know plenty of Jewish bakeries back East that made Christmas cakes and fantastic hot-crossed buns for Easter. So...they support those things that a truly devout person would not provide those services to them.

Most businesses, religious or not, serve people with whom they knowingly object to morally. And in these cases of religious beliefs, it appears they may be 'selective' in when they choose to "play the religious beliefs' card.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

TheNextEra said:
Iran is more to your liking then. Move there.

Plain and simple, there are rules to operating a business that you cannot discriminate against a client based on sexuality, race, or religion.
Click to expand...

Slavery used to be the law. So back in those days yiu would have said "there are rules and if you dont like it, move"? Or does that logic only apply to things you agree with. You stikk havent logically explained what makes you entitled to another persons private property. You just keep saying "big daddy government says so, dont like it, move".
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Phil_Osophy said:
Slavery used to be the law. So back in those days yiu would have said "there are rules and if you dont like it, move"? Or does that logic only apply to things you agree with. You stikk havent logically explained what makes you entitled to another persons private property. You just keep saying "big daddy government says so, dont like it, move".
Click to expand...

If you cannot understand that the U.S. does not tolerate discrimination based on sexuality, race or religion, I cannot help you.

These are current laws like those that say we cannot employ 5 year olds to work in the factories. Are you also going to demand an answer why we cannot allow 5 year olds to work in factories as well? You're being silly at this point.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

ttwtt78640 said:
No. What they said was that if you are selling cakes to the public then you must do so to all of the public. You cannot use race, religion, ethnicity, gender or gender preference as the basis to refuse service to some customers. You cannot say, sorry we do not serve (insert any subset of the public) - your kind must shop elsewhere.
Click to expand...

That is all very nice, except that gender preference has not been the same level of protected class as race, color, creed, sex or national origin. In fact, sexual preference is an all-together separate phenomenon as its the only one of those that is explicitly carved out by the Bible, which given our Judeo-Christian heritage, is significant.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Grant said:
Listen, it is not an interracial couple, it is not a man with his dog, it is not any of these things being brought up. It is two gay men asking for a wedding cake and the owner declined because he said his religion precluded him from getting involved in Gay marriage. So they should simply respect that and go elsewhere. Thankfully, not all Gays are this petty.
Click to expand...

For the sake of argument though, had this been an interracial couple and the baker had denied them a wedding cake because he religiously felt that he could not support interracial marriages, would you have supported that as legitimate free exercise of religion?

Based on your other response, I am guessing that for you, personally, you do not believe sexual orientation should be a protected class like race and that influences how you see this situation. I am wondering if you would respond the same way if it were racial given that people have, in the past, used religious convictions to deny services to people of different racial groups.

Also, it should be noted since you brought dogs up, that this baker does do wedding cakes for dog weddings.
 
Last edited:
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

TheNextEra said:
The RULES that have been established. Don't like it, don't open a business. Or feel free to move to Iran.
Click to expand...
Better yet... if you come across a baker that finds it against his moral conscience to bake a cake for your wedding,...move down the yellow pages to the next baker in the neighborhood that will bake you a friggin cake and not find it a need to press charges against the one who wouldn't because of moral conscience. DUH
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

vesper said:
Really? My arguments are so piss poor and yours are by all means stellar examples of justice ! Yeah right.
I do not see any form of sexual activity seeking rights that redefines the traditional definition of marriage worthy of violating at the expense of other's rights, including property and religious freedom and to be in violation of the first amendment.
Click to expand...

Being gay isnt about sexual activity. A person is gay whether or not they ever have sex. It is about the gender that they are attracted to, fall in love with, want to be intimate with.

Gays wouldnt want to get married if it was just about sex....how many married couples continue to have lots of sex? Relationships are much more than that.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

vesper said:
Better yet... if you come across a baker that finds it against his moral conscience to bake a cake for your wedding,...move down the yellow pages to the next baker in the neighborhood that will bake you a friggin cake and not find it a need to press charges against the one who wouldn't because of moral conscience. DUH
Click to expand...

Yes, just like the blacks should have moved to another restaurant that allowed them in right? Or moved to a fountain that allowed blacks or a bus that didn't have them sitting in the back. WOW why didn't someone think of your wonderful solution BACK then as well? :roll:
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

vesper said:
Better yet... if you come across a baker that finds it against his moral conscience to bake a cake for your wedding,...move down the yellow pages to the next baker in the neighborhood that will bake you a friggin cake and not find it a need to press charges against the one who wouldn't because of moral conscience. DUH
Click to expand...

Why do you think it is ok for a white business owner to refuse to serve blacks because their religion tells them that blacks are "icky". Why should they have to move down the street to have a friggin lunch and not find the need to stand up to the bigoted owner who wouldn't serve them because of moral conscience?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

TheNextEra said:
If you cannot understand that the U.S. does not tolerate discrimination based on sexuality, race or religion, I cannot help you.

These are current laws like those that say we cannot employ 5 year olds to work in the factories. Are you also going to demand an answer why we cannot allow 5 year olds to work in factories as well? You're being silly at this point.
Click to expand...

If you cant logically explain your position without resorting to "gov says so cuz its right", then i dont think you can help anybody with anything.

Children arent consenting adults. Thats why child labor is illegal.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

vesper said:
Better yet... if you come across a baker that finds it against his moral conscience to bake a cake for your wedding,...move down the yellow pages to the next baker in the neighborhood that will bake you a friggin cake and not find it a need to press charges against the one who wouldn't because of moral conscience. DUH
Click to expand...

criminals get punished thats what happens when you break the law thier moral conscious doesnt allow them to commit crimes and infringe on others rights. They dont get special treatment they must follow the rulws laws and constitutions like us all.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

AGENT J said:
criminals get punished thats what happens when you break the law thier moral conscious doesnt allow them to commit crimes and infringe on others rights. They dont get special treatment they must follow the rulws laws and constitutions like us all.
Click to expand...

If they must follow the constitution, the gun free zone should be illegal.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

The constitution doesnt guarantee you to be entitled to others property.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Grant said:
What harm was caused to these two men who didn't get their wedding cake from the baker? Are we talking hurt feelings here?
Click to expand...

This has been explained to you in detail. It's rather dishonest of you to act like you have no idea about the civil rights issue involved here. Even if you dont agree with it, you are well aware of it.

Must you stoop to that to try and see if your perspective will gain some kind of traction?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Phil_Osophy said:
If you cant logically explain your position without resorting to "gov says so cuz its right", then i dont think you can help anybody with anything.

Children arent consenting adults. Thats why child labor is illegal.
Click to expand...

My explanation is this country doesn't allow discrimination based on sexuality, race or religion. If you can't accept that, Iran is your next best option to move to. They are more to your liking on the right to discriminate. If you cannot see why it is wrong to discriminate, I cannot help you.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Phil_Osophy said:
If they must follow the constitution, the gun free zone should be illegal.
Click to expand...

And actually I agree with you there, so you agree that there shouldn't be any discrimination based on sexuality right?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

TheNextEra said:
My explanation is this country doesn't allow discrimination based on sexuality, race or religion. If you can't accept that, Iran is your next best option to move to. They are more to your liking on the right to discriminate. If you cannot see why it is wrong to discriminate, I cannot help you.
Click to expand...

Youre explanation us "big daddy govt says so cuz its right"? Got it.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

AGENT J said:
all factually 100% false
Click to expand...

The politically correct way to tell her that is '100% fact free.'

Please....make sure you dont morally offend! LOL
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Phil_Osophy said:
Youre explanation us "big daddy govt says so cuz its right"? Got it.
Click to expand...

And your explanation is we can discriminate against who we want, when we want. Sorry, but that isn't the case.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

TheNextEra said:
And actually I agree with you there, so you agree that there shouldn't be any discrimination based on sexuality right?
Click to expand...

I would be willing to compromise there.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Phil_Osophy said:
The constitution doesnt guarantee you to be entitled to others property.
Click to expand...

This had nothing to do with property, it had to do with services.

Your right to "free exercise" of religion ends when it interferes with the rights of others. Court precedent allows a state to limit your "free exercise" of religion in the interest of a "compelling state interest" such as nondiscrimination as long as it isn't too burdensome. The debate here is the extent to which people have "free exercise" of their religious liberty and whether the state is imposing too much of a burden on this baker by trying to push its interest of nondiscrimination.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Lursa said:
Being gay isnt about sexual activity. A person is gay whether or not they ever have sex. It is about the gender that they are attracted to, fall in love with, want to be intimate with.

Gays wouldnt want to get married if it was just about sex....how many married couples continue to have lots of sex? Relationships are much more than that.
Click to expand...
WTF does this have to do with someone's constitutional rights? I don't give a damn what gay people do in their bedroom, or how they are attracted to one another. What I do find appalling is those who are gay and those who support them will violate the rights of others because of their moral conscience will haul them into court and sue them because they refused to bake them a damn wedding cake when there are several bakeries in the area that would have obliged them. This whole thing stinks because those gays who are demanding rights are willing to trample the rights of others just to make an f-ing statement to force their relationships down the throats of those who morally find them wrong. Can you feel the f-ing love?????
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom