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Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
Sorry....but it is you who is engaging in circular reasoning. I know you hate it...but the law is the law. In this country, if you want to open a business, then you cannot discriminate. That's just the way it is. Don't like it? Don't open a business. It really is as simple as that.
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Yes, it's perfectly fine that I have to avoid activities where the government will violate my rights if I were to partake in them. Cool story, bro.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Henrin said:
Yes, it's perfectly fine that I have to avoid activities where the government will violate my rights if I were to partake in them. Cool story, bro.
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That's the point that you are completely missing. There is no Constitutional right or "natural right" to be a bigot. Sorry....there just isn't.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Fine with me

Perfectly fine
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Henrin said:
Yes, it's perfectly fine that I have to avoid activities where the government will violate my rights if I were to partake in them. Cool story, bro.
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sounds like you have a bit of contempt of the law and government.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
That's the point that you are completely missing. There is no Constitutional right or "natural right" to be a bigot. Sorry....there just isn't.
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Perhaps you should learn about natural rights and property before you speak of such things. I guess it's fine to you if we just make non consensual sex legal since property isn't built on the foundation of controlling access to that property. Unless of course it IS.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

AGENT J said:
sorry nobody honest buys this rewrite lol

why would it be weird or shocking for a criminal to face penalties of the law?

when you break the law and commit crimes theres always a possibility of paying for them crimes, this is actually what happened. And in this case the criminal and the owner was let off easy he wasn't even fined.
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He never should have been charged in the first place. But in 21 states in our union, gays have rights even though they trample the religious freedoms of others. Because freedom isn’t free. It has to be taken away. And then redistributed to persecuted groups like two bored gay men whose idea of love involves suing people.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

vesper said:
He never should have been charged in the first place. But in 21 states in our union, gays have rights even though they trample the religious freedoms of others. Because freedom isn’t free. It has to be taken away. And then redistributed to persecuted groups like two bored gay men whose idea of love involves suing people.
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Yes, it sucks to be a religious bigot in the US in the 21st century
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Henrin said:
Perhaps you should learn about natural rights and property before you speak of such things.
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I know all I need to know. I went to law school....so I know a little bit about property rights and "natural law". The reality is....you are trying to create a "natural right" to discriminate. No such "natural right" exists. Sorry....that's just the simple facts.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
Sorry....but it is you who is engaging in circular reasoning. I know you hate it...but the law is the law. In this country, if you want to open a business, then you cannot discriminate. That's just the way it is. Don't like it? Don't open a business. It really is as simple as that.
Click to expand...

yep, always interesting reading posts that totally ignore the facts and reality of things and try to push opinions, philosophies and fantasies as facts.
It never works, people never fall for it when the facts are so obvious and the opinions, philosophies and fantasies themselves are so mentally inept and retarded, are void of logic and simply do nothing but empower bigotry, discrimination, inequality, rights violations and incivility.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Henrin said:
Perhaps you should learn about natural rights and property before you speak of such things.
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people should be treated equally under the law, regardless of property.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

vesper said:
He never should have been charged in the first place. But in 21 states in our union, gays have rights even though they trample the religious freedoms of others. Because freedom isn’t free. It has to be taken away. And then redistributed to persecuted groups like two bored gay men whose idea of love involves suing people.
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How is enforcing anti-discrimination laws "trampling the religious freedom of others". This baker has the absolute right to pray and preach to his hearts content. He isn't free however to use his religion as a shield to get around the law and promote his/her bigotry.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

ttwtt78640 said:
Then simply stop selling all wedding cakes. I am not exactly sure what makes a cake into a wedding cake. Is it the number of layers? Placing figurines on top? Writing something on it?
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That was my suggestion earlier to those who live in states where it is a crime to deny a service. They could sell all other types of cakes pastries and work with private organizations offering wedding cake services to them exclusively.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
I know all I need to know. I went to law school....so I know a little bit about property rights and "natural law". The reality is....you are trying to create a "natural right" to discriminate. No such "natural right" exists. Sorry....that's just the simple facts.
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Then your teacher was an ignorant boob. The right to discriminate is a natural consequence of the right to control access to your property.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

vesper said:
Yes but that doesn't mean it isn't happening elsewhere. I never thought I would see the day a baker would be facing a year in prison because his moral conscience did not want to participate in providing services for a gay marriage.
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Where do you get a "year in prison" from?


The Colorado statute actually says regarding the Public Accommodation law:

"24-34-602. Penalty and civil liability.

(1) Any person who violates section 24-34-601 shall be fined not less than fifty dollars nor more than five hundred dollars for each violation. A person aggrieved by the violation of section 24-34-601 shall bring an action in any court of competent jurisdiction in the county where the violation occurred. Upon finding a violation, the court shall order the defendant to pay the fine to the aggrieved party."



I don't see anything in there about prison. (Public Accommodation laws are Civil Law, not Criminal Law.)


>>>>
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
How is enforcing anti-discrimination laws "trampling the religious freedom of others". This baker has the absolute right to pray and preach to his hearts content. He isn't free however to use his religion as a shield to get around the law and promote his/her bigotry.
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I can't wait till those who get tired of this happy horse poop rise up and force you to stop your bigotry against people with religious convictions. You say they have the right to pray and preach but you deny them the right to live out their convictions.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Henrin said:
Then your teacher was an ignorant boob. The right to discriminate is a natural consequence of the right to control access to your property.
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the value of property is variable, the value of humans is fixed. no one should be denied equal treatment due to property.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Unitedwestand13 said:
people should be treated equally under the law, regardless of property.
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Then all property must be treated the same in terms of the owner having sole authority on who can access and use the property. :mrgreen:
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
Sorry....but it is you who is engaging in circular reasoning. I know you hate it...but the law is the law. In this country, if you want to open a business, then you cannot discriminate. That's just the way it is. Don't like it? Don't open a business. It really is as simple as that.
Click to expand...

LOL I know. And there's no private property outside of the law either. LOLOLOL Very natural, as practiced by most prehistoric societies and gradually being refined as more and bigger societies developed, into the rights and privileges and laws of civilizations.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

vesper said:
I can't wait till those who get tired of this happy horse poop rise up
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I can't wait either

Then we can force all of them out of business. Maybe even throw some of them in jail for rebellion
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Henrin said:
Then your teacher was an ignorant boob. The right to discriminate is a natural consequence of the right to control access to your property.
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Maybe in your fantasy world...but not so in reality. When you open a business to the public you necessarily must comply with the laws of the land. sorry.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Unitedwestand13 said:
the value of property is variable, the value of humans is fixed. no one should be denied equal treatment due to property.
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If you don't own the property then you have no say on how it is operated or who the owner allows to use it. You're mister irreverent when it comes to the property.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

WorldWatcher said:
Where do you get a "year in prison" from?


The Colorado statute actually says regarding the Public Accommodation law:

"24-34-602. Penalty and civil liability.

(1) Any person who violates section 24-34-601 shall be fined not less than fifty dollars nor more than five hundred dollars for each violation. A person aggrieved by the violation of section 24-34-601 shall bring an action in any court of competent jurisdiction in the county where the violation occurred. Upon finding a violation, the court shall order the defendant to pay the fine to the aggrieved party."



I don't see anything in there about prison. (Public Accommodation laws are Civil Law, not Criminal Law.)


>>>>
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The complainants can sue the baker civilly in the regular courts system or he can potentially be prosecuted by the district attorney for up to twelve months in jail.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-12-06/news/sns-rt-us-usa-colorado-lgbt-20131206_1_masterpiece-cakeshop-jack-phillips-charlie-craig
 
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Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

vesper said:
I can't wait till those who get tired of this happy horse poop rise up and force you to stop your bigotry against people with religious convictions. You say they have the right to pray and preach but you deny them the right to live out their convictions.
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Their "right to live out their convictions" ends when they violate the laws.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

vesper said:
1.)He never should have been charged in the first place.
2.) But in 21 states in our union, gays have rights even though they trample the religious freedoms of others.
3.) Because freedom isn’t free. It has to be taken away.
4.) And then redistributed to persecuted groups like two bored gay men whose idea of love involves suing people.
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1.) facts, laws, rights, ordinances all disagree with you and prove you wrong
2.) nothing is trampled nobody honest and objective shares this fallacy. Im a Christian myself and i know this guy is simply an idiot for committing crimes, breaking the law and thinking he had SPECIAL rights and doesnt have to follow the rules and gets to treat people as lessers and infringe on thier rights.
His religious freedoms are 100% in tact, 100% and no fallacy will change that.
3.) another fallacy the owner has the same freedom of the group you speak of, sexual orientation is what is protected and that guy has his own sexual orentation.
4.) i love when you just make stuff up its funny, do you have any evidence of this?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
Maybe in your fantasy world...but not so in reality. When you open a business to the public you necessarily must comply with the laws of the land. sorry.
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So, what about that vast amounts of knowledge you have on natural rights, again? You know, that thing you didn't even know one of the foundations of? Want to talk about how little you know about property rights?
 
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