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Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Mason66 said:
If this happened to most of us, we would just go to another bakery and get a cake.

You have to be a special kind of nuts to want to go through a trial and have these people in your life for months or years and relive the experience over and over again. Yeah....Rosa Parks suffered the consequences of her actions too at first.

What did it accomplish anyway? LOL We've already covered this. Gays have the right to fight for their rights just like blacks and women.
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We already covered this, and you dropped it.
Mason66 said:
Don't make assumptions when you know nothing about what you speak.

Sexual orientation has nothing to do with race and this is not the new civil rights movement.

Again did this couple have a cake at their wedding?
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Lursa said:
If you read the bold the first time, you needn't ask your question. And gays are gay whether they ever have sex or not.

And I'm glad you didnt run into Rosa Parks on the bus that day. That lazy bitch could have moved a little further back on the bus too.
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Lursa said:
It is indeed about civil rights...you are born with your sexual orientation as well.

And didnt Rosa Parks always get a seat on the bus?
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Yes she did...in the back. But she fought for the right to 'the cake of her choice.' So that all blacks could have the cake of their choice, instead of having fewer choices or more inconvenience in getting their 'cakes.'
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Peter King said:
I am sorry but I disagree, with that kind of reasoning there would still be businesses with "whites only" signs in the windows. There was not only a need for such a law but also a justification for anti-discrimination laws.

It may not be my property, but as long as a property houses a commercial business it has to keep to the laws of the United States and one of those laws is that it is not legal for them to discriminate. And I am not insisting on acting on the rights of other people. I am insisting judges sentence/smack down companies who are bigots when it comes to human rights of other.
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This going back to "Whites Only" signs quite misses the point. It wasn't just restaurants where this happened it was in every facet of law and society. If this guy had a sign saying "Whites Only" how long do you think he'd remain in business? And there would be no need for Blacks to settle it through the courts.

These things tend to work them out for themselves and there is no need to plug up the courts. If he runs a jerk business people will let him know soon enough, and he will wind up very lonely.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Henrin said:
I'm a libertarian, so you know, I was always against it. :D
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Maybe you were, maybe you weren't. But it's teh gays that really seem to spring a libertarian into action. Just as an example, there's another thread right now where some guy was ordered to pay his fiance $50,000 for walking out on the marriage after she left her job and home for him. Calls for government to get out of marriage? Nada. However, start up a gay marriage thread and the libertarians flood it with the "government out of marriage now" one-liners. Never fails.
 
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Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Henrin said:
I don't believe I have ever talked on those issues.
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THe licenses you claim are not necessary ensure those things too.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292]

Arbo said:
Yet again showing government has no business dishing out such laws, as they don't cover ALL discrimination. Just those they are trying to buy votes from.
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There are specific protected classes and they are very limited. Except for religion, they all apply to equal rights for PEOPLE.

What other types of discrimination would be appropriate? Which ones are not valid?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292]

Lursa said:
Shoes and shirts are not covered under anti-discrimination laws. Race and gender are. In Colo, sexual orientation is.
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Yes, more laws are just what people need in order to be free.John Stossel - Too Many Laws - YouTube
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292]

Lursa said:
Shoes and shirts are not covered under anti-discrimination laws. Race and gender are. In Colo, sexual orientation is.
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Is there anything to stop legislators from making it illegal?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292]

Grant said:
Is there anything to stop legislators from making it illegal?
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What would they base that on?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Cardinal said:
Maybe you were, maybe you weren't. But it's teh gays that really seem to spring a libertarian into action. Just as an example, there's another thread right now where some guy was ordered to pay his fiance $50,000 for walking out on the marriage after she left her job and home for him. Calls for government to get out of marriage? Nada. However, start up a gay marriage thread and the libertarians flood it with the "government out of marriage now" one-liners. Never fails.
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I will admit I was too busy being disgusted by the law that allowed it to happen to think of that. Sorry. Really though, why can't we just talk of an individual issue involving marriage without falling back on our stance on marriage? It's not like that is going to happen.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Cardinal said:
Maybe you were, maybe you weren't. But it's teh gays that really seem to spring a libertarian into action. Just as an example, there's another thread right now where some guy was ordered to pay his fiance $50,000 for walking out on the marriage after she left her job and home for him. Calls for government to get out of marriage? Nada. However, start up a gay marriage thread and the libertarians flood it with the "government out of marriage now" one-liners. Never fails.
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Where is that thread? Sounds interesting.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
Absolutely. If you open you doors to the public, you have to comply with the laws of this country.
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Some laws, however, are retarded and / or tyrannical, though. Case in point.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Henrin said:
I will admit I was too busy being disgusted by the law that allowed it to happen to think of that. Sorry. Really though, why can't we just talk of an individual issue involving marriage without falling back on our stance on marriage? It's not like that is going to happen.
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Because it's no longer possible to see that the two issues (gay marriage and the government-out-of-marriage position) aren't inextricably tied to each other. You could ask me to pretend that one does not follow the other with uncanny reliability, but I really can't. It's like asking me to ignore the fact that daytime follows the rising of the sun and not to assume that one causes the other. Eventually it just happens with enough frequency to conclude they're not isolated occurrences.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

A few months back, it was the woman in Portland who owned a bakery and sold all kinds of cakes and pastries to anyone that wanted them but because of her religious beliefs she did not do wedding cakes for gay couples. And she was forced to shut down her business. And this baker for the very same reasons refused a wedding cake to a gay couple due to religious beliefs and will likely be forced to shut down. I personally find this to be a violation of religious freedom forcing someone to do something against their moral conscience. Just like in Obamacare where it forces employers to pay for birth control and after morning pills that go against the moral conscience of others.

I think at the moment to protect their livelihood, is all bakers who find offering cakes for gay marriages in conflict with their beliefs should stop offering/advertising wedding cakes in their stores but set up a network within their community of faith based organizations that believe as they do and solely provide wedding cakes to them. And the next time an intolerant gay couple who has no respect for another man's religious freedoms that goes looking for their next target to force the issue into court, they will just have to settle for the bakery down the street that didn't have any problem with baking a wedding cake for them in the first place.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

vesper said:
A few months back, it was the woman in Portland who owned a bakery and sold all kinds of cakes and pastries to anyone that wanted them but because of her religious beliefs she did not do wedding cakes for gay couples. And she was forced to shut down her business. And this baker for the very same reasons refused a wedding cake to a gay couple due to religious beliefs and will likely be forced to shut down. I personally find this to be a violation of religious freedom forcing someone to do something against their moral conscience. Just like in Obamacare where it forces employers to pay for birth control and after morning pills that go against the moral conscience of others.

I think at the moment to protect their livelihood, is all bakers who find offering cakes for gay marriages in conflict with their beliefs should stop offering/advertising wedding cakes in their stores but set up a network within their community of faith based organizations that believe as they do and solely provide wedding cakes to them. And the next time an intolerant gay couple who has no respect for another man's religious freedoms that goes looking for their next target to force the issue into court, they will just have to settle for the bakery down the street that didn't have any problem with baking a wedding cake for them in the first place.
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Why was she forced to shut down her business?

And do you think that would have been a good plan for any people with religious beliefs that considered blacks as less than human (some Christian sects preached this as a means to validate their choice to support slavery, so as such was a religious belief) to do to exclude blacks for those that didnt want to serve them?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Lursa said:
Vesper said:
vesper View Post
A few months back, it was the woman in Portland who owned a bakery and sold all kinds of cakes and pastries to anyone that wanted them but because of her religious beliefs she did not do wedding cakes for gay couples. And she was forced to shut down her business.
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Why was she forced to shut down her business?
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She wasn't "forced" to shut down her business as in the government ordering her to.

She shutdown the store-front for economic reasons. After the case made the news there was a significant drop in business and she couldn't afford to remain open as a store-front. Operations were moved to a home-based business.


>>>>
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

vesper said:
1.)A few months back, it was the woman in Portland who owned a bakery and sold all kinds of cakes and pastries to anyone that wanted them but because of her religious beliefs she did not do wedding cakes for gay couples. And she was forced to shut down her business.

2.) And this baker for the very same reasons refused a wedding cake to a gay couple due to religious beliefs and will likely be forced to shut down.

3.) I personally find this to be a violation of religious freedom forcing someone to do something against their moral conscience.

4.) I think at the moment to protect their livelihood, is all bakers who find offering cakes for gay marriages in conflict with their beliefs should stop offering/advertising wedding cakes in their stores but set up a network within their community of faith based organizations that believe as they do and solely provide wedding cakes to them.


5.) And the next time an intolerant gay couple who has no respect for another man's religious freedoms that goes looking for their next target to force the issue into court, they will just have to settle for the bakery down the street that didn't have any problem with baking a wedding cake for them in the first place.
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1.) no she was not forced to shut down her business, she choose to open that business, then she chose to break the law. Then once an investigation/review was in process, and people started protesting her criminal activity and getting the message out to the area and her suppliers she chose to shut down her store front and run things from home.

not to mention even if she would have been forced to shut down thats not an uncommon thing for business owners that break the law.

2.) he wont be forced either he was simply given a cease and desist order to stop breaking the law. It will be his choice if he want to follow the law or continue to break it which has consequences.

3.) and you would be wrong because there is no force and his religious freedom is 100% intact because his religious freedom does not allow him to violate the rights of others or break the law.


4.) this could work fine and if done right it would not break the law and violate rights

5.) there is no proof that the customers were intolerant, were looking for a target or didnt respect thier religion. none :shrug:

but you are free to have that opinion based on total guesses.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Lursa said:
Why was she forced to shut down her business?

And do you think that would have been a good plan for any people with religious beliefs that considered blacks as less than human (some Christian sects preached this as a means to validate their choice to support slavery, so as such was a religious belief) to do to exclude blacks for those that didnt want to serve them?
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She was forced to shut down her business because the stink that was made over her refusing to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple, by those in the gay community picketing in front of her store making it difficult for her to do business along with receiving physical threats to her and her family and the cost to obtain legal counsel she shut down her business. The woman displayed things of her faith on the walls of her business as well as a Bible on the counter. She was targeted because of her beliefs. And truth be known this baker in this story was too. We still have laws that protect a person's rights to private clubs/organizations. Bakers who have moral convictions that providing a cake for a gay marriage need not advertise they bake wedding cakes in their stores. They can solely offer their services for such things as those who share their same beliefs through private organizatons. Most churches teach homosexuality a sin. Nothing wrong with these bakers setting up a network within the religious communities that share their beliefs. It's funny you bring race into this because it was the majority of the black community that came out in support for a ban on gay marriage in California 2008. Those who do not support gay marriage reaches across every color of skin in unity on this issue.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Lursa said:
Why was she forced to shut down her business?

And do you think that would have been a good plan for any people with religious beliefs that considered blacks as less than human (some Christian sects preached this as a means to validate their choice to support slavery, so as such was a religious belief) to do to exclude blacks for those that didnt want to serve them?
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some how many people magically declare thats different. But there are also some that dont think anybody should have their rights protected in these cases, they want to allow and empower bigotry, denying equal rights and infringing on rights.

Luckily most of us do not and the government protects our rights like it should.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

vesper said:
1.)She was forced to shut down her business because the stink that was made over her refusing to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple, by those in the gay community picketing in front of her store making it difficult for her to do business along with receiving physical threats to her and her family and the cost to obtain legal counsel she shut down her business.

2.) The woman displayed things of her faith on the walls of her business as well as a Bible on the counter. She was targeted because of her beliefs. And truth be known this baker in this story was too.

3.) We still have laws that protect a person's rights to private clubs/organizations.

4.) Bakers who have moral convictions that providing a cake for a gay marriage need not advertise they bake wedding cakes in their stores. They can solely offer their services for such things as those who share their same beliefs through private organizatons.

5.) Most churches teach homosexuality a sin.

6.) Nothing wrong with these bakers setting up a network within the religious communities that share their beliefs.

7.) It's funny you bring race into this because it was the majority of the black community that came out in support for a ban on gay marriage in California 2008. Those who do not support gay marriage reaches across every color of skin in unity on this issue.
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1.) factually not true, she was not forced it was here choice.

2.) link? proof?
weird how would anybody know a cross and bible would mean that bakery would break the law, commit crimes and be bigoted towards gays? millions of people with bibles dont discriminate against gays

3.) yes we do which this is not.

4.) yes they can and if done right they can avoid being criminals

5.) meaningless to this discussion, church doesnt make laws nor does it trump rights outside its doors

6.) 100% correct

7.) yep and they should be double ashamed of themselves for displaying such hypocritical bigotry BUT that has nothing to do with the topic here. Some blacks were also agaisnt interracial marriage thats a totally silly and failed strawman. You were asked a question and you dodged it. Feel free to answer the question.

would you support discrimination based on religion, gender, race and disabilities?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Lursa said:
Why was she forced to shut down her business?

And do you think that would have been a good plan for any people with religious beliefs that considered blacks as less than human (some Christian sects preached this as a means to validate their choice to support slavery, so as such was a religious belief) to do to exclude blacks for those that didnt want to serve them?
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You make a few claims here about Christians without offering any support. But, in any case, this is not about Blacks.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

WorldWatcher said:
She wasn't "forced" to shut down her business as in the government ordering her to.

She shutdown the store-front for economic reasons. After the case made the news there was a significant drop in business and she couldn't afford to remain open as a store-front. Operations were moved to a home-based business.


>>>>
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I never stated that the government forced her to shut down, but she did have to retain an attorney when the allegations were brought against her. The actions of the people, which Portland has a large gay community, was less than tolerant and played the biggest role in her shutting her doors. Even thoughOregon does not recognize same sex marriage and their state constitution recognizes a person to have the right to moral conscience.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

AGENT J said:
some how many people magically declare thats different. But there are also some that dont think anybody should have their rights protected in these cases, they want to allow and empower bigotry, denying equal rights and infringing on rights.

Luckily most of us do not and the government protects our rights like it should.
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So the business is no longer open largely because of the community response, right? So what does the government need to do again?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292]

disneydude said:
Right.....how dare blacks bitch about white restaurant owners refusing to serve them at their lunch counters! Bring back white only drinking fountains as well....right?
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You shouldn't have said that. Go to the back of the bus. LOL.
 
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